Bible questions thread

>Does faith in Jesus mean faith He will save you no matter what?
As far as I understand it, yes.
>If so, how does sin fall into this
Paul explains it far better than I could though I'll try anyway: Once you've been saved, wouldn't you want to save others too? Living a Christ-like life for the sake of saving others is a way of showing the legitimacy of your faith and love of others.

Is God simply a belief in God? Do people want to believe in God more than they want to obey God? Why do we desire faith more than perfect behavior? Atheists can be happy and fulfilled because many have more faith, more certainty in the empiricism, beauty, power and truth of science. Their faith is not unlike a Christians. It appears that God has many names, he must surely be clever, or have some motive in deliberate deception to disguise his identity under an experience of exaltation, security and ecstasy.

I was baptized as an infant as a Lutheran, baptized again as a Mennonite in my adolescence and am now a weak atheist, but I love theological discussion. I believe if there was a God he would care more about actions than beliefs, but I think that is heavily influenced by Mennonite teachings. It's more important to care about your fellow man and be a good person than care about some omnipotent being.

I think actions are necessarily a direct consequence of one's beliefs, that is, I don't think it's really 'one or the other' as you seem to be implying.

I'm not sure what you mean. I try to be a good person, and leave people happier for having interacted with me, with no reference or direction from a higher power.

>A common protestant stemming from Lutheranism is salvation by faith alone. The endgame of this is the idea that you will live your whole life a sinner, even a non-believer, but even if at the very last moment of life you truly believe and accept Jesus as the savior of your soul, the Holy Spirit may enter you and you are forgiven.

To add to this, this a modern interpretation of Protestant thought. A consequence of the doctrine, I would say personally. This topic goes into what I said responding to the third greentext in but the difference between the Protestant and Apostolic view is not specifically on salvation but rather justification - what makes us "just" rather than just being a sinner, as that would be expressive of God's peace and eventually salvation. The different is subtle:

>Protestants believe that faith in God is what ultimately makes us just. Faith motivates action and so it's not action that's the key but rather the faith itself.

>Apostolics believe that faith and works in God is what ultimately makes us just. Technically faith can persist without works so both are the key that work together to transform the person.

As Catholic I would say the Apostolics win out and the people who just believe in the core concepts of the religion and call that faith are evidence of the weakness of the Protestant claim, leading them to then parse "faith" and "true faith".

>Catholics see things differently - you have to confess your sins to a priest and be forgiven

To make a note here, in the Catholic view the priests do not do the forgiving. Only God forgives. The priests, being the ones whose core job is to deliver the sacraments, is only the vessel from which forgiveness is delivered to them in person.

To give example, priests don't have powers when they do a baptism. They don't have superpowers. They are akin to conduits from which God gives the baptized grace.

I wasn't implying that atheists can't also act like good people.

>Atheists can be happy and fulfilled because many have more faith, more certainty in the empiricism, beauty, power and truth of science.
Plenty of atheists are anti-science. Especially when it comes to the theory of evolution, you know, because it's racist.
>Their faith is not unlike a Christians.
That can be true. Anyone who believes in equality, for example, treats it as an ultimate moral authority much in the same way that a Christian thinks of God. It goes right down to asking proof-testing questions such as "Don't you believe in equality?"
>It appears that Satan has many names, he must surely be clever, or have some motive in deliberate deception to disguise his identity under an experience of exaltation, security and ecstasy.
ftfy. Satan is the deceiver.

Equality is one of Satan's guises. Kek could become another one, though the latter will remain a harmless meme for some time yet.

I didn't think that was what you were saying. I'm not entirely sure what I was trying to say either. I think I am just more curious about what a true believer thinks about my position. As I was taught, once one accepts Jesus into their heart that's it. But now I am pretty sure don't believe that anymore, but the fact I am still interested in opinions on it is intriguing to me.

I don't understand how actions can be relevant to our being "just" when it's established in the bible that we're all evil sinners. What would be the maximum number of sins, then, a person could commit and be just? Do you think that is for God to decide, and that He has established a line in His mind of how many sins is too many?

You are a class-a retard user. Good on you, for the theory of evolution bit specifically.

>Is God simply a belief in God?
I believe there is a typo with this sentence.

>Do people want to believe in God more than they want to obey God?

I apologize but I can't really give a solid answer of this . I don't know of any answers to such a question nor any demographic study for such a question.

>Why do we desire faith more than perfect behavior?

As mentioned and the use of the term faith varies between people I'd recommend reading that and telling me what you mean so we can continue.

>Atheists can be happy and fulfilled because many have more faith, more certainty in the empiricism, beauty, power and truth of science.

I'd have to say this is a really big claim that's both vague and likely impossible to prove.

>It appears that God has many names, he must surely be clever, or have some motive in deliberate deception to disguise his identity under an experience of exaltation, security and ecstasy.

What coy game is this?
If you want to insult, man, try being more blunt and more learned.

That's what I was taught, too. But I've talked to some Christians who don't seem to think that the case. I myself don't believe that about physical baptism either, but baptism by the Holy Spirit holds more validity for me.
>gets dunked in water
>is safe from consequences of their beliefs and actions no matter what
A bit absurd desu

>You are a class-a retard user
If you're going to take the time to call me a retard, at least have the decency and rigour to try and justify your claim.

Yeah, I was dunked in a lake, but there was a prayer in a class room which was a much more powerful experience. I can't say I believe in either anymore, but I can't deny the power of the influence on my psyche.

>Does faith in Jesus mean faith He will save you no matter what?
No. James 2:

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Chronologically the first book of the new testament, a plain and simple speech with no ambiguity, and has been a stumbling block for sinners who use "by faith alone" as justification for their actions.

As an orthodox, it's almost like the Catholic version. except the Christian has to be continuously praying/becoming more like God in his quest towards salvation. "reuniting" with God as it were.

My understanding is that it really comes down to what's in your heart that counts, not the actions in and of itself.
For example, say one man drink drives and kill somebody else in the process. He shouldn't have been doing what he was doing, but the fact is that he didn't care about those around him and let that result in someone else's death. However, he becomes repentant and does all he can to try and right the wrong done and make amends.
Compare that with someone who hates another so much that they would kill them if they could, but don't purely because they don't have the means.
If you judge them based solely on their actions, one guy is a killer and another is not. But if you judge them by their what's in their heart, anyone who is repentant can be forgiven.

Well, let me ask you, if you say you have faith in Jesus, but won't follow his message, do you really have faith? It'd be like saying I have faith in swing-set, but make someone else test it before I do.

There is eternal life and salvation for those that have faith in Jesus, and as much as I'd like for everyone to go to Heaven (probably will at the resurrection), there are simply many "Cultural Christians", as I like to call them, who are doomed to damnation because they believe the cross must bend towards what is socially acceptable nowadays, rather than they themselves being the one who needs to bend.

>Does faith in Jesus mean faith He will save you no matter what?
Yes, all your past sins will be behind you. You are cleansed in the blood, the ultimate sacrifice. You could be the worst person to ever live, commit every single sin, and be saved if you let Jesus into your heart truly.

If you have any questions, I help new converts and teach people about the Bible in my free time.

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." (Rev. 16:13, 14)

Is this a reference to Kek and his meme magic?

I also don't think it rational (not that this is your rationale) to assume that because your experience was on your psyche (as all experiences are), that it was't true. Anyone could rationalize it as having been nothing but a product of natural reaction, but that wouldn't mean they're correct.

What if someone truly believe in the teachings of Jesus and try to live your life accordingly, but doesn't believe in his divinity. Do you think that person deserves eternal punishment?

Kek forgives all

Keku existed long before Christ.

Don't fall for Jewish tricks and fall for a dead kike on a stick.

But then by what marker are we saved? I do think it a bit ambiguous for the answer to be "Well that's up to God." How much sin is too much, then? How can faith really mean anything if our fate is decided by our actions? I know the verses you posted, but many would disagree with your interpretation.

yeah but fuck White people eh. I wish it weren't so but I'm 1/4 chigger and I got hit with the white inferiority stck from the moment I popped out into an English Catholic family. They had sons in law in the USAF during Vietnam and they made my childhood a living fucking nightmare so now I would like nothing mroe than for all white people to drop fucking dead.

I know it isn't rational, there are some really decent white folks but you know what, I can't help it. My life was ruined and now I want yours to be. It makes my fucking day when the niggers throw another lasso around the neck of some stupid grnt cop trying to do his job. If you began to exhibit some intelligence and the occasional indicator you aren't congenitally stupid I might feel differently but I think I'm dying now and this stupid website is the only opportunity I've had to ever express this.

The biggest destroyer of Europeans and European Culture was always other Europeans. I think you're all fucking kranks.

>I don't understand how actions can be relevant to our being "just" when it's established in the bible that we're all evil sinners.

Us being "evil sinners" is the Protestant - specifically Calvinist - view Total Depravity. From an apostolic view we seek good but our wills partially struggle with irrational desires - a partial depravity - to which God's grace assists us in overcoming sin, while Total Depravity is that our irrational desires control us outright to which God's grace does the work for us in overcoming the sin.

I'm not going to do a denominational fight in detail here, I'm just answering questions. Actions being just relies on the apostolic view of depravity.

>What would be the maximum number of sins, then, a person could commit and be just?

What? As long as the forgiveness is wholehearted, they are eternally open to forgiveness and through sin we lose justification until forgiveness.

>Do you think that is for God to decide, and that He has established a line in His mind of how many sins is too many?

I, along with every church I know, states God is infinite in His mercy.

>As I was taught, once one accepts Jesus into their heart that's it.

You have a history with baptists or groups like it, don't you? Baptists reject that the church sacraments (baptism, confession, confirmation, marriage, etc) have power in this own rituals and think that they are symbolic of a real change that occurs purely based on your heart.

The apostolic faiths support that God's grace can be given during this time (what is called 'prevenient grace') but regardless they hold that the sacraments deliver grace as well and some sacraments deal with specific purposes, such as baptism.

And to note, there are a few forms of baptism known in this view:

>Baptism by Water
>Baptism by Desire
>Baptism by Blood

I'd recommend you look up each one.

There is no way to the father but through him. God gave man a way into Heaven, the Mosaic Covenant, and a man were absolutely righteous and perfect in his steps, he could get into Heaven theoretically without the assistance of Jesus. As the Mosaic Covenant is long, has many rules, and must be followed perfectly, it is unlikely any man or woman followed this path to Heaven.

Jesus was sent upon the Earth to live this covenant, a perfect life, and to show it could be done. He then fulfilled it, and gave man the New Covenant, which was the original one Moses had brought down from the mountain before destroying it in rage.

So yes, anyone who does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ will burn in the Hellfire. Thankfully though, in the end times, Christ will return and all will know he has returned, and know him by name. It is then at this point if people would like to turn away that they will be burned in the Hellfire, and when their name is not found in the book of life, ultimately wiped from existence completely.

>The biggest destroyer of Europeans and European Culture was always (((other Europeans)))
ftfy

>Don't fall for Jewish tricks and fall for a dead kike on a stick.
Don't slander that which you fail to understand.

Okay, well, I honestly believe that I believe in Jesus, as close to knowing it to be true as is possible, yet, I am a terrible sinner, and often by choice. I fap; I curse people; I try to destroy people mentally just because I dislike them (often atheists); i'm generally hateful of anyone i deem stupid or atheistic; I'm an alcoholic. So how does that fit?

Hellfire. I don't want to tell you that user, but we all sin, we all struggle, and we all waiver. I'm not the Lord nor one of his prophets, so I couldn't say what he will allow, but you must act in accordance to your faith in him.

He is your savior, he died for all, and he loves you with infinite love. He will forgive you user, but you have to show him you're trying to follow, rather than the typical Sinner on Saturday, Saint on Sunday mentality people have. God wants to have a relationship with you, an intimate one, where you can confess everything you feel, good or bad, and that you can trust him; as any relationship, there is give and take, and many people want to take everything, and are shocked when they're asked to give something.

Something I will say though, which I fear is one of most damning sin is, never hide your faith.

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

It doesn't matter the situation, Christianity does not allow you to deny Christ. Whether a gun is to your head or someone will set off a nuclear device in New York if you admit it, if you value your soul, you never deny Christ.

If you need any help user, I struggle too, and we can talk about it. We all should endeavor to follow Jesus' lead, but he was the only perfect man.

Something I forgot to add though is try to free yourself of hate. Jesus took sin, which in Judaism had to be physically enacted to count, to thought crime levels.

Have you wanted something someone else has? You've stolen from him.

Have you imagined yourself killing someone you hate? You've killed him.

Have you fapped to a girl, whether real or imaginary? You've fornicated with her outside the body of marriage.

What the fuck are you guys even worshipping anymore?

>too much going on in the shrine.
Reminds me of all the different legions of hell working together for satan.

>Catholocism isn't a red pill senpai its idoltry.

Well, I'm open about being a Christian. I'm just not very nice and I hate atheists and I'm addicted to alcohol. I think God knows I want to follow Him and that any reason I ever don't is because I'm weak.

So you response is really just "God will decide if you're worthy in the end"?

I prefer the "have faith in Jesus and you are saved" approach, personally, user.

Wolfshiem I've always admired your knowledge and the integrity you've exhibited on this board. You're grounded and I think it's God's will you're here to offer guidance and some solid reasons to have faith in God but I want you to answer a question as honestly as you can.

Do you advocate White supremacy?

The reason I ask this is once I challenged you about the what seemed like an implication by you that Christians should Crusade because Deus Vult. You defended against my accusation by saying the Crusades were a historical and essential component of both the Faith and History of the Church. I couldn't argue with this but it still left me uneasy as to your actual motives. I'm not White but I was raised in a White household with all it's strengths and weaknesses and I know first fucking hand that there is NOTHING, exceptional or even unique about "White people". If anything they are insecure, lacking in self awareness, narrow minded and intensely frightened. They create their monsters and through some bizarre contortion of reason, find the fault for these peronality traits in the innocents they fear.

I like to think I was one of the originators of the exaltation of God and reverence for Jesus on this board but I often wonder how many of the bigots who use terms like nigger, chink, paki, etc come here to clothe themselves for a time in virtual vestments. Are you the guy who attended seminary for a time but had to leave?

Anyone who doesn't know should know now that this board is a data mining excercise by Jews and NO ONE here is anonymous. Anyone who thinks differently is a fucking fool.

>I prefer the path that's easier on me, desu
That's a huge problem with Christianity. There's no dedication, everyone thinking by "believing" in Christ, but without following the message, they'll be saved.

Pray for strength then. Alcohol isn't a sin, only if consumed in excess. There should never be hatred in your heart. Anyone outside of the fold can be a new brother or sister in Christ

>ftfy

I don't understand my antipodean colonist friendo. What do all the brackets mean?

Why is people saying that leviticus does not apply? Is it because it's only laws?

>What the fuck are you guys even worshipping anymore?

iunno, man, shit, I think it's like God or some shit.

In this sense, m8, I question the real existence of "choice." I believe in Jesus. I seek truth like it's all that matters. I also hate and i drink excessively. It seems to me that if God wants me to act better, He will allow me to act differently.

Can somebody post an hymn from Psalms?

Not the person you're responding to but I'll chip in anyway.
>If anything [white people] are insecure, lacking in self awareness, narrow minded and intensely frightened. They create their monsters and through some bizarre contortion of reason, find the fault for these peronality traits in the innocents they fear.
Insecure and intensely frightened I can agree with. That's what keeps them innovating. Generalisations. I'm definitely self-aware and broad-minded though (if not exactly humble about it): I've changed my worldview multiple times and understand different perspectives for that reason.

>Anyone who doesn't know should know now that this board is a data mining excercise by Jews and NO ONE here is anonymous.
That doesn't bother me anymore desu. I now know what I believe and how to argue my case, so I no longer really need to test out controversial opinions.

That doesn't make sense. The fact you're a sinner opposing your beliefs proves there is a choice. Following Christ in his message is a choice, just not the one you wanted to hear.

He wants you to be yourself and to facilitate this you have free will.

Who are you allowing to influence you to have so much hatred? Is it God?

Leviticus was filled with laws for Jewish theocracy. So when atheists say shit like "hurr God doesn't like shrimp u hypocrites," they misunderstand in that those laws don't apply to Christians. I'm sure someone else could explain it better than I, though.

A reference to Talmudists.

For a lot of people 'Jews' is a trigger-word and causes their mind to freeze up and think you're literally Hitler.

So it's easier just to mention the (((1%))) or the (((media))), or you get the idea.

Being British I Love/Hate you Straya but it breaks my fucking heart to know you'd sooner back up one of your own morons over me.

I'm not sure. I just can't stand people who try to deny truth or lead other people away from it. They are the cause of true suffering, as far as I'm concerned. and I guess I'm not at the level of Christianity that I would simply love them and want them to be saved.

I've basically given up asking bible questions from Christians because they seem to never have an answer other than "it says so in the bible" or "it must probably be this way". The Jehova's Witnesses come to visit me once a week and I can tell they're lovely people but they are stagnating in their beliefs (imo).

The bible is too confusing and too twisted to be called the word of god. It is most likely a historical record with lots of people having changed things to fit their kingdoms or their people over the rest (israelites over other tribes etc)

>it's hard to understand
>therefore it isn't the word of God
I think you need to work on your cognitive skills

>it breaks my fucking heart to know you'd sooner back up one of your own morons over me.
If it's any consolation Poland is one of my favourite countries in Europe, I'd happily back up the U.K. against its *ahem* greatest threat, and we'll almost certainly never have to fight each other anyway.

Western Spiritualism is in the mrie. I don't blame you for exploring other sources. It seems to me that Christianity in the west will have to change if it is to endure and perhaps it is time for it absorb some Islamic philosophies, that would seem to be the movement of history right now. Have you researched anything about Orthodoxy, it does seem to have maintained it's integrity and is strong depite being suppressed for 60 years by the Communists.

I wish to enlighten you all:

Here's what I did, and I did it because it makes me feel spiritual, and wise:

Search on Google for horoscopes and get the top two or maybe even the top three results.

Next, learn what sign you are and get your horoscope from all top two or top three results/websites.

Next write down your horoscope of the top two or top three websites inside of a notebook or journal, and do this every day.

Do this every day so eventually you accumulate a record of yourself.

You can then look back and see all this information about yourself, which then makes you smarter.

Very spiritual.

>The bible is too confusing and too twisted to be called the word of god.
I'd suggest that contrariwise to that, it's the framework you've developed from the other things you've read which has confused you.

The Bible is simple truth at a surface level: if you wish to 'break past' that, then you'll have to study for some time to go full circle and get back to that same truth, told differently.

1/10 trolling

I'm not sure christchan is appropriately all-inclusive of christianity.
>no engraven images
Some people think that includes cross necklaces.

Finally gives you something to write about in your notebook/journal.

>I'm not sure christchan is appropriately all-inclusive of christianity
Yeah she isn't. There are Orthodox/Catholic versions around the place. I still find it fun to use them when posting, and she's likely close to my own denomination, so that works for me.

I thank you for your comments. I did not attend seminary, no.

First off I do not advocate white supremacy. From some slight personal research on Cred Forums over the years I have become open to the idea of mental differences between races (though I wouldn't necessarily tie them to skin color I can see it possibly trend within certain groups of skin colors) and fairly sympathetic to race preservationalism and understand that both concepts usually tie together. However I do specifically tie any of these views towards benefiting white people but trying to aid all group and seek truth. Thus I don't think I'm a supremacist in any respect.

Generally, though, I'm a civic nationalist - which is where I side most with Cred Forums. And while I can't remember saying what you mention of the crusades nor my entire point there, I do believe a nation should be able to defend itself in both regards to its property (if that is the right word - don't quote me there) and its national ideology and so if that nation were Christendom and it needed defense (in accordance to Just War Doctrine) I would support such a thing. However I don't think we're in anywhere near that point yet for a crusade but rather the countries of Europe need to act with national interest to change their policies and target threats abroad rather than feeding the cause of the problem (Syria and Libya and IS generally) and attempt to send aid rather than pushing more obligation on themselves.

In regards to people expressing white supremacist or hateful views generally while stating they are Catholic, that is a problem. Basically it is still the issue of healing people from sin and just us speaking of one form of sin but it does show a displacement between their political views and the very basics of moral teaching, which is worrisome. I partially blame Francis for this seeing as they have no church figure to then lean on, but it is still something that we must all work towards.

Part 1/2

Part 2/2

In response to your comments of white people, I have no solid evidence against your claim of white people but at the same time nor do you besides your anecdotes so I wouldn't say there is any reason to act so brashly and teach as if truth rather than hypothesis. Keep your mind open to other possibilities whether you hold that view of reality or not.

And finally, as to why I'm here, I'm just a trip from Cred Forums that came in 2008 and stayed. As I became Catholic my sponsor gave me the advise to not evangelize through living rather than focusing on preaching first. If preaching comes, it would come in response to my life. And so I express my interest in wishing to help people by helping people out online, hence me starting "Catholic Generals" for Catholic discussion and so criticism to come to me rather than going out and looking for criticism. I come here to want to chat and to help out whenever possible.

>no anonymity

Don't care.

More like
>the god of the bible is the only god
>he kills and destroys all the time
>i can feel more love and compassion than your god
>must not be the real god

also inconsistencies , the treatment of women etc etc

then my brother explain to me in simple terms what is a "Blessing" (see Genesis, Esau and Jacob) and why can one person steal a blessing like it was a physical thing
what is the purpose of circumcision? Why would god mark its people like they are cattle? Have you ever seen an instance of a good creature branding their followers, let alone their creation?
why did god have to tempt Abraham to know if he was loyal? Couldn't he just read his heart, like they say he can do? Did he have to go that road, tempting Abraham to offer his own son as sacrifice?

Why is this god such a piece of shit? Christian answer: You can't understand the workings of god

My answer: the bible is not a sacred book , no more sacred than the Silmarillion

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalm_23#Text

The general idea you get slightly in Jesus' talk of the Mosaic Law and mainly in Paul's Letters is that Old Covenant (also known as Old Testament Law/Mosaic Law/Levitical Law) was not the law of God in full but was preparation for it. The Old Covenant has elements of God's Law but much was given to the people because of their character at the time (Jesus says in response to one instance of this, that it was done because the men's "their hearts were hard"). The New Covenant (Christianity) fulfilled the role of the Old Covenant so to make way for God's Law in full. This is why Christianity retains elements of the Old Testament teaching while dismissing many parts of it and adding new things into it.
I find the early church theologians very skilled at separating the distinction between retained/not retained teaching. Please excuse me for appealing to simple theologians rather than something authoritative:
The general idea is that the Old Covenant teachings can be separated fields: Civil Law, Ceremonial Law, and Moral Law. The Civil and Ceremonial Law are removed in the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant pretty much only retains and greatly expands on the Moral Law element of it. Leviticus is pretty much staunchly the Civil Law and - to put it more bluntly - the Levitical priesthood is dismissed outright in St. Paul's Letter to the Hebrews, Chapter 7.

>>the god of the bible is the only god
>>he kills and destroys all the time
>>i can feel more love and compassion than your god
How so? Do you believe justice is necessary from truth? Or do you believe in nothing at all, but rather judge people who pose truth in an attempt to preserve your temporary world? It is "people" like you who will be destroyed.

>I've basically given up asking bible questions from Christians because they seem to never have an answer other than "it says so in the bible" or "it must probably be this way".

Well I've been doing everything but that since I've been in this thread so feel free to ask away.

>The bible is too confusing and too twisted to be called the word of god. It is most likely a historical record with lots of people having changed things to fit their kingdoms or their people over the rest (israelites over other tribes etc)

I would recommend to not guess historicity of texts. As the Bible being confusing, that's totally understandable. Much of it was not written for lay use but rather existed as a tradition that came out of the church's authority.

2beep4tree

>then my brother explain to me in simple terms what is a "Blessing"
If you are blessed by God then you will be fruitful and multiply.
>(see Genesis, Esau and Jacob) and why can one person steal a blessing like it was a physical thing
More or less the same way one can steal some other non-physical thing such as a secret or a promise.
>what is the purpose of circumcision?
When water is a precious commodity and you live in the desert, it's an easier way to remain sanitary - also comes in handy during a battle in Judges iirc.
>Why would god mark its people like they are cattle?
Why are you asking a barrage of questions in that manner?
>Have you ever seen an instance of a good creature branding their followers, let alone their creation?
Almost all human creations are branded...
>why did god have to tempt Abraham to know if he was loyal?
It's an important story for explaining why child sacrifice is a no-no without making God look like a pussy in comparison to all the fake gods which demanded human sacrifices.

>Christian answer:
If you want an honest answer, you should ask questions in an honest manner. It doesn't seem like you actually want to discuss any of these things; rather, it seems like you're deliberately 'gish galloping' in a hope that I'll fail to respond to all of your gripes.

If God has foreknowledge of everything, then did he not create some people to go to be saved, and some to be damned?

He did after all know all the choices every single person would make before He made them.

How does God having foreknowledge of everything not mean that our very thoughts and actions aren't predetermined?

thanks for answering

you now understand how Calvinists approach the concept of grace

>So I guess the question is, more succinctly, whether or not faith is Jesus is the same thing as faith you will be forgiven, or if Jesus can choose not to forgive.

from a Lutheran viewpoint:

god desires that all would be saved, so Jesus is not going to choose not to forgive you.

faith is the means by which we receive gods grace.

for instance, in confession. it is my trust (ie, faith) in the truth of the scriptures that terrorises my mind into contrition when I sin.

in absolution, when the pastor proclaims "do you believe my forgiveness is God's forgiveness", it is a reminder of God's forgiveness and it is by trust (ie faith) in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross to forgive sins that enables me to say "yes".

if you're an antinomian or unrepentant, you have no faith in the truth of the laws condemnation. if you're scrupulous, you have no faith in the gospel.

when you no longer believe you need to repent at all, and thus you fail to even ask for forgiveness -- that's when Christ is of no use to you.

and it is by faith alone, not how many hail marys you say or how many indulgences you buy or even if you do individual confession (these things can only serve to remind you what to have faith in), that you receive gods grace -- by trust that a) the law condemns you and b) Christ's work alone is sufficient to forgive you of this condemnation.

>It doesn't seem like you actually want to discuss any of these things; rather, it seems like you're deliberately 'gish galloping' in a hope that I'll fail to respond to all of your gripes.
That is, questions aren't arguments, and people who ask questions in place of arguments tend not to want an answer.

>How does God having foreknowledge of everything not mean that our very thoughts and actions aren't predetermined?
This, logically, has nothing to do with free will, just to say that. Free will is only epistemic.

No. It does not mean you are pardoned of all sin.

While you are forgiven, it doesn't mean that you still won't pay the price for your crimes.

Don't sin , thats what it means.

>How does God having foreknowledge of everything not mean that our very thoughts and actions aren't predetermined?
The same way Derren Brown having foreknowledge of which cards Stephen Merchant would pick didn't mean Stephen Merchant wasn't picking them out of his own free will?
youtube.com/watch?v=fs2_qU6pZfQ

Free will is a bizarre subject to discuss. I'd suggest that as we can't ever prove we don't have free will and it's useful to think that we do, it's worthwhile to assume that we do for the sake of pragmatism, but that's up to you to decide, you know, of your own free will.

That's a surprisingly brief response. I hope I didn't give a poor impression.

>do you believe my forgiveness is God's forgiveness
The obvious answer would be "No."
>priests pretending to be God
>when you no longer believe you need to repent at all, and thus you fail to even ask for forgiveness -- that's when Christ is of no use to you.
so you think want to be forgiven is the important factor?
>and it is by faith alone, not how many hail marys you say or how many indulgences you buy or even if you do individual confession (these things can only serve to remind you what to have faith in), that you receive gods grace -- by trust that a) the law condemns you and b) Christ's work alone is sufficient to forgive you of this condemnation.
seems non-Catholic

yes it does

that's what it means to impute righteousness or have justification

the wage of sin is death
if we had to pay the price for our crimes, we would have to suffer eternal death

that's kind of the entire point

maybe you'll get punished for being disobedient, but you're not going to "pay the price for your crimes"

Of course I like to think that we have free will.

To say otherwise would be the ultimate justification for evil.

It still troubles me that the paradox between God being omniscient and us having free will exists.

he created people to be saved. the damned people weren't selected in the same way, they just face their just punishment for hating God and doing wicked things. they have no interest in worshipping God. they hate God. even while in hell, they will not have the desire to be with God and worship him.

God has his sovereign decree, man has his creaturely will; from the perspective of man, he does as he wishes.

heaven is perfect
nothing imperfect gets into heaven
grace perfects nature
god gives grace
you can't be in sin and in grace.

I'd like to help.

>then my brother explain to me in simple terms what is a "Blessing"

A detailed answer on its variety of uses in mentioned in the beginning here.
newadvent.org/cathen/02599b.htm

>and why can one person steal a blessing like it was a physical thing

Because this usage correlates to the 4th definition of the word in my link and so it is a real physical thing. It is a birthright earned.

>what is the purpose of circumcision?

To mark their entrance into the Mosaic covenant, akin to how baptism is for the Christian covenant, and also explicitly set them apart from others outside the covenant.

>Why would god mark its people like they are cattle?

While we cannot answer why specifically that one body part the general explanation for the Mosaic Law was to prepare people - set the stage - for the New Covenant. Again, I need to mention the "setting apart" element of it as well.

>Have you ever seen an instance of a good creature branding their followers, let alone their creation?

That's a vague question. We'd have to go into how you define "good" in this sense and why seeing something elsewhere would even aid the initial claim.

>why did god have to tempt Abraham to know if he was loyal?

It was not a test but a method of growth, as is anything falsely perceived as a test or newer versions of the Bible which try to use the term.

The common explanation for this was it is a method to which Abraham, in his context, would come to reject human sacrifice which was a universal concept until then while also serving as a prefiguration.

>Why is this god such a piece of shit?

You perceive God as such because you've been taught poorly, despite your attempts to try to be taught correctly.

It has been explained to me best as going hand in hand. One who truly accepts Christ and has faith in him will make an effort to obey his word, i.e. not sin.

It's similar to how if you love a girl, truly, you'll do things for her, not because you want to, but you do it for her.

Fuck you, I laughed.

have you ever really read the Levitical laws?

a shit ton of them have to do with administrating a temple that doesn't exist anymore. we can't follow these because there is no context for them.

some others have to do with ritual purity laws that, again, are related to temple functions. again: temple related; no temple - no law.

yet more are restitutionary laws that most western legal systems either mimic or improve on anyway. Christ enjoins us not to sue people under these laws anyway, but to settle out of court and make peace and forgive.

then there is the dietary code, which the holy spirit removed. Google "vision of Peter" from the book of acts. basically, god removed kosher because it would hamper evangelism to the goyim.

finally, there's the moral law, which is still valid and is repeated numerous times in the new testament. the ten commandments, the sexual laws, etc. we follow these.

Nice and succinct.

>It still troubles me that the paradox between God being omniscient and us having free will exists.
It's a fundamental, logical misunderstanding:
If God has knowledge of all things, that does not negate free will, as free will is based on epistemic perception, that is, based on one's knowledge, wheras, metaphysical possibilities (like that could be attributed to God's knowledge) have no effect.

Catholics are heritics, Jesus's mom is NOT worthy of prayer, she is not deity

Far better of a job than I did!

You and I are understanding prayer in two different ways. The issue is largely semantic there before it becomes theological.

Hey guys, I have a bible question.

I have a little pocket-sized bible and it's the only bible I own. It is a NKJV bible containing only the New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs. My question is: can I get away with just reading the New Testament or will it be better if I read the Old Testament too?

Thanks in advance.

I appreciate it, man.
I'd recommend New Advent as a general encyclopedia for topics that arise. I'll be looking over your post for some insight too.

What is that battle in Judges you reference?

read the gospels and then genesis.

Apart from Jesus and God and Mary, who else is worthy of praying to?

Abraham?

>priests pretending to be God
it isn't meant in that sense. the role of individual confession is to remind the penitent that God forgives them.

think of it like this:
when a pastor says "you're forgiven", it's "his" in that he's the one saying it. when he asks if you believe it's gods forgiveness, it's not to usurp god, but to remind you that it's not just him, you friendly pastor who just happens to have the job of saying those words, who forgives you, but almighty god.

the pastor is simply reminding you that God has forgiven you. no Catholic "persona Christi" stuff.

I used those words because they're what's written in the small catechism and thus traditional. corporate confession doesn't use that form, and private doesn't have to either.

>seems non-Catholic
well, that's because it's Lutheran

I have a post I usually paste for people trying to read into the Christian faith more. I'll repost it after this.

you don't have to read the OT to understand the fundamental message of Christianity at all

however, it may be good for you to read some of it if you have the spare time

>My question is: can I get away with just reading the New Testament or will it be better if I read the Old Testament too?
Reading just the New Testament is better than nothing at all.

The Old Testament takes a seriously long time to get through, though it will give you a far better sense of context for everything leading up to Christ in terms of culture and politics. I'd recommend reading the whole thing, but if you're having doubts about being able to get through it all then the NT is a perfectly fine starting point.

I think of it as that the OT is more political, while the NT is more personal.

>Be Abraham.
>Be an obnoxious cuck and a liar
>"You and your people will be blessed for all eternity" t. God :^)

Really makes me think

Sponge Bob

No. You can't willingly live a life of sin and not expect to go to hell.

I think the clearest way of understanding the core points of Christianity is reading through the official teachings of the church which are written in our modern manner of speaking. This is a great way of understanding the faith on its core level. So yes, I'd recommend the Catechism of your denomination first.

For understanding the story of the lord and the background to it I would recommend the Bible as the Bible is moreso the collection of writing that build towards the foundation of the church more than anything. I'd recommend the Gospels, then the rest of the New Testament, then the Old Testament. This is separated into parts:

>the life of God as man, the creation of the church and the covenant that it's based in, provided an example model life and provided a grand means of showing reconciliation between man and God (The Gospels)

>The stories of the apostles after the gospel timeline ended (The Book of Acts)

>letters of someone given authority to guide the formation of the church (Paul's letters)

>the historic and intellectual set up towards God's coming and the initial reasoning for God's initial coming (The entire Old Testament)

>a vision separate from it which foretells later events (Revelation).
Commentaries might be good because otherwise you don't know the context of the books. You don't know that Revelation was a vision given, you don't know Paul's letters are letters written after visiting Christian churches to give suggestions on how to benefit those specific churches, etc. Just "reading the bible" is a fantastically stupid idea as you have no grasp of genre, history, or structure without context given through commentaries. Of course it is still readable without commentaries but there is chance of confusion.

For good commentaries, I'd recommend the Ignatius Study Bible.

>What is that battle in Judges you reference?
It might be earlier than that now that I think of it and I'm really foggy about the details, a tribe were only allowed to join forces if they also circumcised their men, and then they were taken out while they were still recovering.

>praying to anyone other than Jesus Christ for intercession

laughing_protestants.png

>can I get away with just reading the New Testament or will it be better if I read the Old Testament too?

the new testament is sufficient for salvation and living a bare bones moral life.

the OT is history and prophecy proclaiming Christ. it is certainly edifying and good to read for lessons on a plethora of subjects, but the new testament is what proclaims the gospel, which is what saves.

It is charity, the love of God, rooted in faith, that saves. Faith is necessary for salvation but not sufficient. You can't just believe that Jesus can forgive sins, you also have to confess your sinfulness and ask for forgiveness. Sometimes Protestants virtually include charity in their definition of faith though, so that to believe in Christ also means to love Him.

Ha, neat, alright.
I'm not too learned in OT stories so I'll have to look into that. Thanks.

Bet you have a problem with your family and friends praying for you too, eh?

iono, i don't think any human being has the right to tell someone they're forgiven in the way that priests do. your argument may be sound, but the problem with it is it clearly insinuates that the priest is the one forgiving, whether that's true to you or not.

All of the saints of the last 2000 years.

Read the Church fathers. Read the Creed where it refers to the "Communion of Saints".

I have a question.

Protestants believe you can do anything and go to heaven, as long as you believe in god so I'm wondering what's the point of resisting temptation?

If a guy who does drugs, goes clubbing, fucks tons of sluts, and just prays once a year goes to heaven the same as some hardcore religious guy who resists having sex before marriage, cheating, doing drugs, etc. what the fuck is the point? What is the point of rules if you don't have to follow them and can just pray for god to forgive you right after?

ALL
THE
ANGELS
AND
SAINTS

we believe in a super natural god, and that the catholic church has super natural authority.

But we all live lifes of sin. Do you want to debate about whether or not it's possible to always sin unwillingly?

>i don't think any human being has the right to tell someone they're forgiven in the way that priests do.

James 5:16 tells us to confess to one another.

Matthew 18:15-20 outlines the nature of the office of the keys, and verse 18 specifically gives Christians the ability to announce forgiveness (I.e. to "bind and loose").

your opinion appears to be unscriptural.

>Protestants believe you can do anything and go to heaven, as long as you believe in god so I'm wondering what's the point of resisting temptation?

Not exactly, no. The traditional Protestant position is:

>Protestants believe that faith in God is what ultimately makes us just. Faith motivates action and so it's not action that's the key but rather the faith itself.

And I go into faith here:

>Faith in God is a trust in God's promises to us that must be exercised in our daily lives. To explain more practically - God is to guide all things to what is best for them and through doing his will for us we find an inner peace and an inner joy in this life. To be able to live by that in the day-to-day and not resort to something else requires faith.

Faith has been corrupted by later Protestants to be the sheer believing in the basic premises of Christianity and justification by faith took a later development by Evangelicals to think that once you have faith (or "true faith") you are incapable of sinning.

>it isn't meant in that sense. the role of individual confession is to remind the penitent that God forgives them.

This is Protestant theology not Catholic. It reminds me of a Protestant theologian who said that when we ask God for things in the Our Father, we are not actually asking God to give us things, we are just reminding ourselves of what God has already given us. That is false. The Sacrament of Confession gives actual grace to the soul, by the power of the Blood of Christ it actually cleanses the soul of sin. When the priest says I absolve you of all your sins, he is actually speaking in the Person of Christ and directly wiping away the sins from your soul. It is not a mere reminder by a physical effect in your soul.

Your understanding of the sacraments is not based in apostolic tradition, but merely in the opinion of a 15th century monk.

Protestants take a certain point of Christian theology too far. Martin Luther was a monk who tried to purify himself through monastic practices, but he didn't get far and always felt that he was a miserable sinner. This made him scrupulous, i.e. made him torture his conscience. He read St. Paul's epistles and came to the conclusion that what was needed to purify us was not any ascetic practice, but primarily faith in Christ. This is 100% true and the basis of Divine Sonship and the liberation from the Law of sin, which St. Paul talks about constantly, but Martin Luther took this point and twisted it to say that Divine Sonship, by which we become children of God no longer burdened by the Law, radically frees us from the Law altogether so that we do not have to worry about the good or evil of our acts at all. This is absolutely false and is a heresy called antinomianism which the early Church refuted. In fact, it was in response to this heresy that St. James wrote his epistle where he condemns those who believe they can be saved by faith alone, while living grossly immoral lives.

1/2

No, it didn't disappoint. I was writing a longer response but the things I was putting in seemed like rambling. I'm tired right now and there is something about a direct answer from you that's remote to me. You shut me down so to speak but I guess it's an example of the integrity I sense coming from you. It happened last time in the original post I mentioned. I think maybe I'm testing you or maybe I'm trying to engage you in a conversation to explore your psychology but like I said in my OP you do appear to be grounded and not disingenuous.

The root of my doubts and anxieties about Christianity and Catholocism are in my own origins and not being clear cut a European. I fucking loathe the racists who frequent here and I paint everyone who does lurk to have these revolting characteristics, however small or tenuously justified. I think this because I have them myself. I've called Blacks Niggers and I am in a lot of pain because of my own origins. It's practically impossible not to hate given the character of this board and a lot of that is internalized by me. I'm torn about writing this because I know some of the fucks here will enjoy that I'm in this pain.

That's the whole of it more or less. I think I've contributed to the delopment of a faith in God here and I'm seeking returns on that. I'd like someone to give me some reassurance but it isn't forthcoming. You very rarely see any insight here and it's kind of disappointing when there's a religious thread and all it seems to consist of is references to the Bible. They've never really communicated a palpable truth to me or enlightened me.

It comes to this, whatever I am, I am of the West. I am witnessing the retreat of Patriarchal values that I believe would strengthen me, fortify my Soul and give me purpose. I worry that I personify the desperation that others like feel as the light of Christianity, the Source of that Patriarchy, diminshes.

>Bet you have a problem with your family and friends praying for you too, eh?

I would certainly have a problem with friends or family praying /to/ me, and vise versa.

>h-h-hyperdulia isn't worship, I swear!
:^)

>If a guy who does drugs, goes clubbing, fucks tons of sluts, and just prays once a year goes to heaven the same as some hardcore religious guy who resists having sex before marriage, cheating, doing drugs, etc. what the fuck is the point? What is the point of rules if you don't have to follow them and can just pray for god to forgive you right after?

Missed this, my bad.
Yes, it's a fuck up by Evangelical standards. The Evangelicals who devised the idea of "once saved, always saved" would believe that if you were to sin (such as you listed) then you did not truly have faith, else you wouldn't have sinned. It's weird circular logic but it is better than when that corrupted, leading to what you see in some modern Evangelical circles: Exactly as you say - do anything and as long as you believe the concept of God existing and the historic claim of Jesus dying for you then you're fine.

It's ignorance piling on ignorance.

Protestant "faith" is God brainwashing or reprogramming you.

You are not using it as a motivator for action but rather something else alters your mental state. From this we get calvinism as the logical solution

>Protestants believe you can do anything and go to heaven, as long as you believe in god so I'm wondering what's the point of resisting temptation?

protestants do not believe this. we believe that true faith is incompatible with unrepentant sin, and thus temptation is resisted because that would mean we don't have faith.

look, the real argument about sola fide isn't faith vs. works, it's "are justification and sanctification discreet" and "is there a difference in condign and congruous merit, and if not, does this mean merit does not exist in a meaningful way?"

both protestants and Catholics alike, when practicing their faith correctly, will try to avoid sin.

Orthodoxy doesn't believe Hell is serperation of God, right? But rather it's a negative relation?

Interesting. So the guy who does drugs, drinks, and has parties in my hypothetical scenario. would not be saved then even if he believes?

>This is Protestant theology not Catholic.

no shit. follow my conversation backwards where I openly say that I'm giving a Lutheran perspective on things.

what makes you think that anybody other than a saint can enter heaven?
god doesn't want shitty people in there.

I'll respond after the second section of your post, no worries.

The real argument of sola fide is whether or not Human beings are active in salvation or not.

Sola fide says no

>both protestants and Catholics alike, when practicing their faith correctly, will try to avoid sin.

I knew a protestant guy in college who would drink, do hard drugs like coke, and smash tons of sluts, and legit believed that it didn't matter in regards to his religion and that no one was perfect so he could just pray his sins away right after and he'd be just as good a person as super religious people who avoided that shit.

This was answered last night, faggot.

ROMANS 3

Picture a two-dimensional plane. Now picture a vertical axis going through said plane. The ascendant dimension brings you closer to God, who is the Absolute. The descending dimension brings you closer to the Relative, to contingency. To go down is to go into nothingness, into chaos, to separation from God and from Good. Hence the symbolism of Hell represented by downward or subterranean elements.

When you write in such an informed way and it doesn't move me somehow it confirms and reinforces this sense of isolation despite my Faith and despite what I regard as a rational and solid belief in the Prophet Jesus. I can't express the loneliness, it's just unbearable and now I think I'm gripped by some terminal illness I just want to get it over with.

It's good to see you back but I wish you'd condemn the bigots or call them out when they use the Faith in poisonous or perverted ways. You talk about Christianity being a justification for asserting national biases and it all sounds very sensible but this board is fucking poisonous and if the Christianity here doesn't call that out it's a sham. Maybe it's your trip but you stand out as a person of faith. Your silence in regard of the hate makes me doubt you. Sorry if any of this seems random but I feel like I can't get a handle on you and that makes me suspect your persona is vague and perhaps insincere.

How inconsistent am I?

Not the same dude

My outlook is, people see sin as a "awww boo hoo of course all the fun stuff is a sin"

But from the right perspective, a sin can be seen as anything that hinders you from being as close to the anointed one as possible.

Think about the 10 commandments as cheat codes vs rules. I promise youll realize had you stuck to them (without feeling like god neutered the fun out of life) the emotional pains of life could have been avoided

Our souls are separated from God by (mortal / grave) sin. In order for the believer to be saved, he has to ask God for the forgiveness of sins and do as Christ said: sin no more. The Holy Spirit gives us the power to avoid sin.

I'm agnostic, just asking questions m8 I"m trying to learn

>legit believed that it didn't matter in regards to his religion

then he's a fucking idiot.

srs business m8
people are scared to die for a reason.
death is hell. heaven is eternal life.

I should have made a comment about Calvinist thought there, my bad, but Protestantism isn't 1:1 with Calvinism.

This is responded to here My bad.

He is never touched by God or saved by him to begin with according to sola fide, or God intends him to repent later on.

The only Logical solution to sola fide is in fact...calvinism.

Calvin may affirm free will but his soteriology necessarily entails the description of mind alteration by God

>separated by mortal / grave

try: any sin

Do you really believe you could be in the presence of God with any, even the slightest sin in you?

Calvin and Luther agrees that human beings are chosen by God to salvation.

Luther did not go far and with his realist view of sacraments, created a sola fide that differs from Calvin.

See for example Philip Cary's essay: "Why is Luther not Quite Protestant"

if you didn't realize it, these threads are made by atheists pretending to be catholics to promote inter-fighting between Christians.

>He is never touched by God or saved by him to begin with according to sola fide, or God intends him to repent later on.

not sola fide per se, but the Calvinist doctrine of the perseverance of the saints.

I would simply say the guys an apostate who has chosen to expel his faith from him.

either way: he's a fucking idiot.

Also, bye bye

I'll catch you girls later

This ... is an example of how I feel Orthodoxy is eclipsing Western Christianity. There's something about this post that rings true and I can only assume it's because the Patriarchal source of it hasn't been polluted or diluted by Western corruption. It's not the only example but I feel like I KNOW that Russians, or any other community justified by Orthodoxy, would be even more prejudiced against someone like me. Because of Western impreialism and colonisation there are fucking millions of people like me and NOW, now that the world is going down the toilet, economically, socially, culturally, you name it; *WE* are going to be tossed.

It doesn't matter where I look, what I read, what I hear. NOTHING, literally NOTHING speaks to me or for me or for the millions like me.

Why do post-Constantine Gnostics worship the demiurge?

Hell being separation from God is biblical, retardless of denomination.

It is literally the later Lutheran version of sola fide you shown here.

But either way, Lutheran soteriology is Catholic lite.

Bye for now cutie, I am going out soon

>Once you've been saved, wouldn't you want to save others too? Living a Christ-like life for the sake of saving others is a way of showing the legitimacy of your faith and love of others.

pfff thanks user after 6 months being a christian i now finaly understand

All that believe in the Holy Spirit, praise God, repent for their sins, and beg for forgives are guarenteed eternal life with our Lord. As long as you believe in him and are washed anew in his holy fire then you are saved.

you wish
>Psalm 139:8 If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present.

This.

So how can people believe that our actions still matter? That isn't to say we can to w/e, but a beleiever will try to be Christ-like.

your actions matter because you have to accept jesus on his terms
it's not automatic.

there is a small mistake in here if you truely believe in the teachings of jesus you should understand that he said he is the son of God.

>Think about the 10 commandments as cheat codes vs rules. I promise youll realize had you stuck to them (without feeling like god neutered the fun out of life) the emotional pains of life could have been avoided
This is very true, i regret my decisions jn life desu

As I understand grace both ends of the spectrum; the Catholic that believes that not participating in [x] sacrament will send them to hell, and the Protestant that believe he has authorized permission to sin by God are flawed.

Good works must be the fruit of the saved. They must be done as a testament to faith in and love of God, period. They must not be considered debt, payment, or partial payment for the death of Christ.

That is the best conclusion I've been able to arrive at.

the sacraments open up channels for grace
marriage is a sacrament but it's not necessarily a requirement.

I pretty much agree but I try to think of it more intuitively. The Catholic teaching is easily misunderstood as the implication that good works always come from God is easily missed. Good works may have human involvement but ultimately it comes from God.

All that talk about debt, payment, retribution etc. gives me headaches. Don't know why Protestants like to think like this.

Missing sacraments do not automatically send you to hell unless it's done with an intention that deliberately brings God displeasure. Most sacraments I would say are gifts to bolster the faith. Who's to say we won't have Sacraments in Purgatory?

>the sacraments open up channels for grace
aka
>if you don't do sacraments, God won't save you

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

...

yea but wasn't that talking about circumcision and the old law?

They raped dinah jacobs daughter and its in genesis 34 . sneaky jewish tricks

>25And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.

Yes, and it's still a very valid argument today for the requirements of receiving imputed righteousness, that being faith and faith alone.

yea but still
don't you guys get baptized?
don't you realize that's a sacrament?

I still don't understand, after this time and thread, what it means, then, to have faith in Jesus. If is may be the case that our actions and sins are still relevant, then how is Jesus relevant? What does He mean that all who believe on Him will be saved, if fapping for the 1,000th time can ensure death in hellfire?

I don't know what to immediately say, man. I've been off and on this board's Christian discussion for months now - possibly since the /his/ split - because I've been trying to get lots of project work done with my father. That's largely why I don't lead generals anymore or try to start large discussions or debates but on rare discussions like this thread and is also likely why you perceive me as complacent. But you are right, I believe. I tried to help and evangelize as I know how on this board with the means I have but abandoning it to work elsewhere has constantly concerned me. I'm tried to work on these projects for the welfare of my family so I've felt very split and struggling with moral obligation and personally I feel a longing guilt over the whole situations to which I'm not sure how to properly understand what it's guilt of. It's just been something I've been sitting on.

I know the Catholic Generals added a great sense of community which bolstered around the board but I cannot focus as I used to on them so if I begin them I would have to rely on the community to keep it going more than myself, but I can try doing that again if it would do some good. However, as you mentioned, just speaking out more about the bullshit you see on Cred Forums would be an improvement. I suppose that in teaching to evangelize through living I've forgot trying to uphold Christian doctrine to others. Possibly me not having much time, possibly just me being scared. Either way you're right and - if it means anything at all - I'm sorry. I can't guarantee a total 180 from me by tomorrow but I will try. Certain days I could get a Catholic General up again as well and we'll see how that goes but either way I'll work on exercising the moral teaching I've been given. Again, I'm sorry. I've been too ignorant to effects I was having on others.

Part 1/3

You've no doubt done much work with the community here and I can really sense the injustice you speak about. With the /his/ split and 3+5chan's /christian/ and the Catholic Generals quietly going away Cred Forums doesn't have much of its community it used to have back when we were memeing it up.

As for Cred Forums's racist ideology, that gets into the split I mentioned before in about racial differences. I'm open to the concept - though with the details I mentioned in that post - and so discussion on "racist ideology" is very hard to address for me succinctly. There is blatantly hateful rhetoric that is easy to address and to scold but with a more cemented support for racial differences involving racism in a general sense or Nazi conspiracy (itself a very complex topic) it's extremely difficult to navigate the situation and know how to effectively speak up. Ideally - even for those race preservationalists - we should be trying to lift all people and groups regardless of how they are organized or understood and not try to tear one another down if there is or is not any differences. That point, at least, should be consistent. All that said, am I right to consider you likely a black person or mixed person?

Part 2/3

hope is what saves

Despite all this, I do want to begin scolding poor views with you though. Don't feel concerned about acting based on how others would see it, even if they take pleasure in your sorrow. Focus on what is right to do, as I should as well, and speak your truth. Don't be weakened by concerns of others as despite them you are in the right to act as you do. Don't act a coward but express the faith and the courage that you have. Nationalism is on the rise but regardless dignity, faith, and courage are eternal and you should know this. They are the heart of the west, barring philosophical details, and you have access to them at all times. In here you have a game that you consistently win insofar as you are continuously willing to try. If you long for community, I would recommend /christian/ mentioned earlier as we work together here.

But it's late. 6:30am here. We'll continue this another time. Thank you for rambling, man. I hope we can chat again.

Faith is what saves.
But I want to hear an answer from someone who believes our actions save us.

and that's a bible quote, before a protestant tells me "no jesus is what saves!!"

i was too slow.
another bible quote is "faith without works is dead"

/his/ split?

Yes, Protestants have a strong belief in baptism and we practice it as a sacrament, but we also realize that it is the baptism of the spirit that transforms us. We are made a new creature, it only happens once, your stony heart is replaced with a heart of flesh, you become a direct creation of God etc, etc. That's where the whole born again thing comes from.

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Just ask yourself, who got wet and who was saved?

In order to be saved you have to out my people the Israelites first. Romans 1:16. But people of the world reject the idea of being a servant to my people so God created Christianity in order to condemn the world. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Devils know Christ is the son of God. They know he arose on the 3rd day. They also know he died on the cross for the sins of ISRAEL ONLY. Acts 5:31. But you people don't know what you worship for salvation is of the Jew and through us. Even Christ makes this clear when he states what you have did for the least of my brethren you have also did for me so go unto eternal life. What you have not done for the greatest or least of my brethren you also did not do for me. So go unto eternal punishment. You will never find a verse in the Bible that denotes that anything but being a servant to my Holy People will save you. You have to put my people first in order to be saved and believe it in your heart. Paul stated this as well and Christ made sure the heathen Canaanite woman knew it too before he saved her daughter. She had to refer to herself and all the other non-Israelites as merely dogs who get the scraps on the ground compared to the bread on the table. You hate the truth and reject it so you will be condemned and take that Mark of the Beast and be SOL. Watch.

I'm a Catholic and all I can tell you is to believe that wherever life leads you, whatever you do in this sinful world, Jesus will always welcome you back.
I know it sounds funny coming from a Catholic but read the bible, particularly the parable of the prodigal son. The son lost his faith in his father just like some of us have done. But the father welcomes him back like he's always belonged to his place. It makes sense once you think about it.

Theologically, Jesus is relevant because he is the revealed Son of God. He has taken human form and is proof that God knows each and everyone of us even in our darkest corners. On top of that, He has saved us all from our past, present and future sin. He's done it all so trust in Him and do your job to repent like He told you to.

getting wet is part of it
>John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That quote bothers me, and part of the reason I made this thread--How do works matter? Am i supposed to work my way into having faith? It seems to me that faith and works are two entirely different things.

It's because Justification by Faith Alone is heresy, you outward actions should always reflect your inner faith in Jesus. "Whoever does the will of my Father is my brother and sister and mother."

K, keep it up. Another time now. MayGod bless and Keep you.

Prove what you said using the Bible, the word of God is what matters not your name. The Anti-Christ comes in his own name. So use God's word and prove what you say. God is the God of Israel not the world or do you read some other Bible nobody knows about?

>2 Timothy 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

this was recorded before a bible was even a thing. you should really study the bible, but you should study more than that.

What is the will of God according to the Bible?

Prove what part? Give me something to work on here m8

I knew you were going to post that and I don't have a better answer than baptism by water being the first and last sacrament required for salvation.

As I said, Protestants do have a strong believe in baptism (I think it's the only sacrament that all protestants practice across all denominations, albeit only once in their life).

mixed

1. Who did Christ come down to save?
2. Who is already saved with an everlasting salvation according to God?
Who did God send Christ to die for and give repentance too?
4. Who did God give his laws, statutes, and commandments too?
5. Does God change?
6. Is the Old Testament invalid, if so provide scripture that says so?
7. How does one achieve salvation?
8. What does it mean to have faith in Christ?
9. Who are God's elect and chosen ones according to the Bible?
10. Is the Kingdom of Heaven for everyone or does every nation get their own Kingdom in eternal life if they receive such a gift?

I would believe I am approved by God via Jesus Christ, not by how I am as an imperfect person. Do you think otherwise?

idk, are you scared to die?

What Bible verse says dipping yourself inder water saves you? Don't come in your name like the devil. Prove this with the word of God. Baptism is through the action of not sinning anymore, Christ made it clear water does nothing. Also how can one break a law that wasn't given to them in the first place?

The will of God, according to the bible, is for us to have faith in Jesus.

The very verse I was replying to?

Maybe you should read the entire post chain to see what my argument is?

Tbqh, I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I want to have communion with God more than anything, and I think He knows that. The only reason i might be afraid is that I don't really act like a Christian, in two ways: 1) my being an alcoholic and 2) doing everything in my power to destroy atheists, via disdain rather than love

Quote two verses that say what you just said using the word of God. Otherwise what you just said is mute.

>Baptism is through the action of not sinning anymore

Also, this is unture. We cannot stop sinning while carnal, even if we are apart of the elect and baptism of the Spirit does not happen the second you die, it happens the second you become apart of the elect.

If this is your definition of baptism, then no one is saved.

Well I know that Jesus said to have faith in him at least twice in the new testament, but i'm not one that can recall verses from memory, sorry. I'm sure you can google it though, unless you're here simply to be contrarian, in which case, and you stick around, i'm sure you can be destroyed in a number of ways.

Picture a world in which people like you don't talk utter shit.

So you're telling me you can go around spewing whatever pours out of your mouth because you feel like it? Where in the Bible does a man come in his own word once and speaks for God? Never. All the prophets came in the name of God and quoted his word. Yet you think you can?

Jesus

Where in the Bible does it say anyone besides Jews/Israelites are the elect? No one is saved if that is my definition? That's not what God says.

Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

God says the Israelites will all be saved. Yet my definition remains strong. So his chosen will all be saved and my definition still holds itself without contradicting the LORD. So do I contradict the LORD or your beliefs and does your belief hold weight to the word of God?

Half of that isn't even related to my post m8
I'll answer the ones that are semi-relevant

1. Mark 16:15
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Luke 24:47
and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

2.
Psalm116:15
Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

3. see 1

4+6+9+10. OT is valid
Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? By no means! Instead, we uphold Law.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

5. The answer is no.
Ecclesiastes 3:11
He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Psalm 100:5
For the LORD is good and his love endures forever;
his faithfulness continues through all generations.

Revelation 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

7.
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

8.
Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

No. Jesus is not real
Only kek and Shiva is resl

Christ gave all glory to God and he said he is also one in GOD thus he is also the LORD.

>implying tha tmeans gentiles aren't saved
>not knowing about all of Paul's letters
Kid, if you're going to try to argue, be preprared, yeah?

Allow me to prove you wrong. Because everything I asked you has a direct answer and you answered incorrectly on every single of them.

show us some of those famous talmudic debating skills

I would like to offer you two facts.
1. Your god does not exist.
2. Your faith is due to your low IQ.

>and you answered incorrectly on every single of them.
Look at this autist everyone.

By all means, Goldstein-sama.

*tips*

your lack of faith is due to deracination

Two unsupported presmises.
Feel free to try to pose an actual argument.

you sound like one of those crazy mudslimes screaming about allah being the one true god

kek

I'm almost positive you're shitposting but I'll respond anyway.

It's anyone in covenant with Abraham, of which we gentiles are grafted on, likewise, can others be torn off (Romans 11).

Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ cannot be saved (John 14:6).

Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ, do not believe Moses either (John 5:46), are children of the devil (John 8:43-47) and of the synagogue of satan (Revelation 2:9)

>presmises

1. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

2. Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

3. Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

4. Psalms 147:19-20 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

5. Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

6. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. & Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7. Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Greek meaning Israelites who were foreigners and left the Holy Land which is why Christ says this. Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

8. Matthew 15:26-27 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. See Romans 1:16 above *Accepting inferiority*

9. Deuteronomy 7:6 For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

10. Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

No it means that you have confessed out loud that he is Lord and savior and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.

fug that makes me sad now

You should be sad about your faith. It is shameful and embarrassing to have an imaginary friend beyond childhood.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Where does that state if my people don't accept Christ they cannot be saved? That's not what that says. That says what it says. This is why you heathens don't understand scripture. God DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF!

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

AS IT IS WRITTEN. My people will all be saved and will turn away from ungodliness. How will we do this?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more

Isaiah 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

You heathens don't understand simple scripture because you just spew feelings and emotions out of your mouth instead of the word of God. The Bible is written precept upon precept and thus is read.

If anyone truly wants to study I will aid you.

too obvious

But that doesn't address the sin thing. I have professed all those things, that Jesus is my Lord God, but, some Christians think I still might not be saved.

Maybe you should start by apologizing for the crimes comitted against us by your racial brethren.

Maybe you should grow up and realise that you are as full of hate and prejudice as any stormfaggot could be.

Maybe you should come back and try again after we stopped being racial minorities in the capitals of our own lands.

A more accurate way to describe the bible would be to say that it is a steaming wheelbarrow-load of dogshit.

What's embarrassing, kid, is feeling the need to refer to God as an "imaginary friend" solely becasue you can't support your weak position.

This thread isn't even political and doesn't belong here.

Go worship your Jewish desert mythology somewhere else, cucks.

You are the one who needs to support your faith in your imaginary friend.
Also, you need to explain the reasoning behind your faith that YOUR favourite god is the one that actually exists, as opposed to the thousands of other gods which have been created.

kek
You really think gentiles don't know that God has chosen Israel first? No shit m8

Matthew 20:27-28
27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

1 Peter 4:10
10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.

Mark 10:45
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Matthew 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Let the masters be masters on Earth. The dogs and servants will be justly rewarded by the Lord.

>implying God is necessarily a creation
Kid, I don't have for you.

They act in place of Jesus

People choose Hell, because they love sin.

But sin leads to Hell, which sucks balls. You see it everyday in the degeneracy threads.

God made everything, gives everything, and think of how hurtful it is to God for man to not only follow God's Laws, which are a gift, but to not even acknowledge His existence, and instead worship some rock carved to look like some hentau furfag...

You have to think about everything in the larger scope of things.

catholics seems to be able to provide arguments for the validity of their position, though, not to say i agree with them.

Running away from the tough questions, eh? How embarrassing for you.

Listen not to the heathen and listen to me. I come in the name of the Most High. Read his word.

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

THAT IS THE ONLY TRUTH! You cannot sin! Sin is what according to God?

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Sin is transgression of the law meaning what? Breaking his laws!

But the law was ONLY GIVEN TO MY PEOPLE! My father does not call you sinners. He calls you all wicked. You cannot break a law that was never given to you. You are not an Israelite more than likely being there's not many of us as it is lol and secondly, you don't live amongst our people so how can you break a law you never seen or heard? It's all a great lie my friend. Hear me out. I will stand before my father and Christ himself before a sword so much as touches you in judgement and allow your blood to be on my hands. Christianity is a lie and so is Islam. God states this clearly.

Deuteronomy 4:28
And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

Christianity and that devil cross and Islam that devil rock. My people were killed and persecuted by the Romans for not being Christian and bowing down to an executioner weapon. Selah. READ CLOSELY. THEY KILLED GOD'S PEOPLE FOR NOT BOWING DOWN TO A CROSS WHICH IS AN IDOL! Did the Muslims not do the same? Do they not do the same today?

Gods of wood and stone my friend. Come out of religion and allow me to be your guide and enlighten you on the Gospel.

Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Thanks, that's the one!

I'm feeling stupid for at first thinking it was in Judges.

You have nothing imporatnt to say, newfag.

Holy Spirit?

Belief isn't enough. You need to be a good person and practice your beliefs. I can't murder someone and say "well I believe that God exists so I can't go to hell!"

Stopped reading at "christianity is a lie"

That sounds like good grounds for a fantasy novel man.

He will save you no matter what. BUT you should still not sin.
Like your parents would love you no matter what (provided they're good parents that is), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do your chores as a child or in other ways disobey your parents.

So you know the masters to be those Askenazi "jews" who are of the Synagogue of Satan? Those who say they are Jews and are not? Revelations 2:9

Then you should also know they are responsible for the skin color divide amongst Judah and Israel. Judah who is in the Americas both black and latinos alike ---> Sephardim are Judah. My darker skin brothers attach the Askenazis to all white Jews. While my lighter skin brothers attache themselves to the Askenaz in a sense. The Askenaz are killing our more olive tone colored brethren in the Holy Land who have been there for 2700 + years since the Assyrian Captivity took place in 722 B.C. Yet Judah in the west is awakening with a hateful and vengeful spirit on all those who don't have dark skin and wooly hair and the majority who attach heathen Hispanics to our covenant and the Irish as well for whatever reason. These Askenazi jews are trying to condemn you gentiles as well by making you hate God's people NOT THEM! God's people are the Negro Americans as well! That the entire world dishonors yet follows them at the same time. It makes no sense but their words and hearts of hatred are known to my father and they will be killed indiscriminately. The people on Cred Forums might be trolling with the "Nigger" this and that but God is not amused by it at all. The slave does not poke fun at its master. I say all this to warn you all.

2 Thessalonians 9:11
Even him, whose coming is after the working of
Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It is not righteous to call God's children bywords nor hate us for ignorance. Slavery, oppression and being called nothing for 400 years is the result of this

Jesus will always forgive if the sinner is truly repentant and has faith in the Lord. It's as simple as that.

Going to priests to confession shows the extent that you as a sinner are willing to go to ask for this forgiveness. Indeed, fessing up to your mistakes is one of the most precious teachings of the dear church. It should be no big deal in the grand scheme of things to ask for confession since you are guaranteed to be forgiven not by the priest, but by God who acts through his servant and the Eucharist.

Private confession in the early church could be followed by a public confession showing the confidence of the penitent of his salvation by grace. I wouldn't mind giving it a try myself though it's gonna be really weird these days. That's the extent of how confident you must be with the Lord when it comes to confession.

It's not so much dependent on time of your forgiveness but on whether you are ready to receive this forgiveness to its full extent that will save you from your sins.

Zech is talking about Jews punishment coming to an end, and Christians cleaving to Israel.

Read Zech 9. Zech 8 is about blessing upon Israel. Zech 9 talks about the enemies of Israel, and how they gather in Allepo and Syrian and are destroyed. And Gaza is wrecked, and the Philistines are made a tribe of Israel.

Take your lies elsewhere, antichrist.

>6Foreigners will occupy the city of Ashdod.
I will destroy the pride of the Philistines.
7I will grab the bloody meat from their mouths
and snatch the detestable sacrifices from their teeth.
Then the surviving Philistines will worship our God
and become like a clan in Judah.c
The Philistines of Ekron will join my people,
as the ancient Jebusites once did.
8I will guard my Temple
and protect it from invading armies.
I am watching closely to ensure
that no more foreign oppressors overrun my people’s land.

YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE 2000 YEAR OLD BOOK WRITTEN BY JEWS.

But what is "truly repentant?"

nothing will satisfy you. Your future is a fucking nightmare and you'll continue to lash about with no reprieve until you come to realise you are the author of your own destinies.

Keep blaming others, it'll do you no good.

>poland typing truth from a submarine with screen door

You fool. I have made this clear on how the Bible is read.

Isaiah 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT! That is mandatory you damn fool. YOU TAKE A VERSE AND SOURCE IT TO ANOTHER VERSE AND TO ANOTHER AND TO ANOTHER that is how it is read. You know nothing! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW GOD. So how the hell can you call me the Anti-Christ when God and Christ dwells in all his chosen people? You are of your father the devil. The same devils that called Christ a devil still do the same today. You're condemned by your own seed and I'm not here for you devils. I'm here to enlighten the gentiles who are lost.

KEK
I have no idea what you're going on about m8
It seems like a lot of political shit which is all fine and good on this board but it has next to nothing to do with God.

Truly repentant means that you, as an agent with free will, accepts that you are a sinner and resolve to sin no more because you love God and want to serve Him with all your heart unclouded by sin. It takes a bit of humility and reflection but the church and God of course are here to help you.

Are you black?
You remind me of this couple, tbqh familia.
youtube.com/shared?ci=jgFW9v78uSo

dun think devils called Christ a devil, devbro

The first Christians WERE JEWS! Rome killed them all and exiled the rest. Burned our books and made them lost forever essentially. Created some new bullshit ass doctrine and started bowing down to an idol! You don't know history you damn devil. The church isn't a building! MY PEOPLE ARE THE CHURCH! Our bodies are the temple of God! That is why we are not to defile it with unholy things!

It has everything to do with God. The devil controls politics and controls religion and doctrine. Why has there never been a non Christian President in the Americas? Why does it matter if it's only politics? See what I mean. Nobody would vote an Atheist as president.

>takes quotes out of context
>twist them to fit his own delusion
I'm the one who quoted the entire passage, and highlighted the context. You're the one acting like the false prophet Jebus.

Believing in Jesus isn't the be all end all. You wanna know who else believes in God? Satan and Demons so you must act like a proper Christian as well.

John 8:48-49
Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

Hurr durr

>false prophet jebus
>should be immediately discounted

>Nobody would vote an Atheist as president.
Sadly, it won't be long before an outspoken atheist is POTUS - unless a Christian revival happens sooner than expected.

You truly are an idiot aren't you? Nonetheless since I take things out of context devil. Allow me to bring out who you really are. Do you know God and do you love God?

Go cuck your shit up with (((Christianity))) you fucking idiots.

Muh 2000 year old bible verses means it's real.

It's real because a Jew wrote it into a book and said it was.

God did all that because you rejected the Messiah, just as he used Babylon and the Syrians to punish you in the past.

You Jews are hard cases, but you're still our brothers. The day will come when you accept Jesus Christ.

Truly I tell you it is better for a man to have not known God then a man to proclaim he does and and set lies before the people. Both are fools but only one follows the devil. The devil does not tell you God doesn't exist. The devil tells you he is GOD!

◄ Acts 13:6 ►
>They traveled through the whole island until they came to Paphos. There they met a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet named Bar-Jesus

Read the book.

>implying that's relevant
>read the book
K, kid

I... don't know how I'm supposed to take that.

Are you talking about an atheist president not being as bad as a fake Christian one, or implying that I'm a liar?

You are a fool you don't know scripture. Hardened as my people are we did not reject Christ. Our people were scattered. Those who said they were Jews were Edomites. King Herod was the King at the time remember and he was an Edomite? Edomites called themselves Jews. Edomites invited the Romans in. Edomites had my people killed. Edomites conspired to destroy my people. Your err is you don't understand scripture. We were not in all in the Holy land at this time we were scattered. My people loved Christ and followed him. It was the devils who hated Christ. As it is written.

Romans 9:6-9
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Not all those who said they were Israelites were Israelites. Just because they were of Abraham they thought they were the chosen people as well. That is false. It's through Isaac that we are chosen and it is through Jacob that we are chosen. Edomites descendant from Esau and it is written. Romans 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. Esau was born first and then Jacob(Israel). The Edomites don't want to serve us so they go around spreading lies and keeping us oppressed and ignorant meanwhile telling the whole world to treat us the same. The whole world will worship us or die but the Edomites have sided with Satan himself to fight against my father and my people for they don't wish to serve us at all.

Christ's name wasn't Jesus that's Greek. His real name was/is Yahushayah. I know this to be true because my last name is Hushayah. Hushayah = Hoshaiah = Hosea = He who is salvation of the Lord. Hu = He who is Sha = Salvation or Saviour Lord/God = Yah. That's simple Paleo Hebrew. Who have people who say Yehushua but Shua = To cry out. Christ came to save not cry out. Like wise as I said my last name is Hushayah so it wasn't hard to put two and two together.

Is God black? Is Christ black?

This is what happens when Jewish elitism meets the antichrist interpretation of the Gospel.

First off, the seed of Abraham isn't a physical seed, it is the seed of the Word of God.

They think all of our people are black. I have come out of that nonsense.

we made him white, so it does not matter what he really was.

This is when the devil shows his true colors. It's not a physical seed?

Romans 9:7
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

ITS NOT THE SEED OF ABRAHAM ITS ISAAC YOU IDIOT!

>believes all that can be knowin can be observed
>believes that which isn't observed is nonsense
>believes he is rational

You made your own devil white. You cannot make the one who was before all what you want? Fool. He was before you, your ancestors were!

>God wants us to worship other humans
Seriously, fuck off heretic.

That's about the most blasphemous thing I have ever heard.

Being friends and protectors isn't the same as worshipping Christ killers.

Call me a heretic, what say you of my father?

Revelations 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Is Christ a Heretic?

Isaiah 60:12
For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

Is God a heretic?

Isaiah 49:23
And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

Ia God a heretic?

Isaiah 14:2
And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the LORD’s land as male and female slaves. They will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them.

Is God a heretic?

Isaiah 60:14
The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

Is God a heretic?

Psalms 2:8
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Is God a heretic?

Psalms 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Is God a heretic?

2 Thessalonians 2:9-11
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

>Call me a heretic, what say you of my father?
Oh, so you're Christ now?

You don't love God, you love yourself. You sit wringing your hands for the day to come for God to bring you slaves.

You're fucked in the head, mate, and the son of perdition just as Jesus said.

You call us humans? Know what God calls us lol?

Psalms 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

What? My people are Gods? No way! We? Us? You mean us children of Enoch, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are Gods?

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Well Yes Christ it is according to Psalms 82:6 b-

John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Yes b-

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Bu-

John 10:37

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

I-

John 10:38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Truly Christ was the wisest to walk this Earth and is the son of God. He himself calls me a God and my poeple Gods. So no we are not merely humans. We are mortal only in sin when he returns MY PEOPLE will have bodies like his. Bodies that glow with a golden aura of brass. Ever seen Hercules? Like that. We will know all things and my people will be able to walk through walls and of course fly. Remember Christ flew up to heaven when he came back. We will be able to walk on water, change our appearance and form and other things Christ did in his new body. Oh yeah no more pain nor death nor sorrow in our new bodies. Then what you shall to those you worship? Are we not Gods?

Jesus is talking about the followers of Christ, which will be the only ones saved.

So yeah, after the 2nd Coming that will be true.

But you're twisting the Word around to fit your own narcissism and vanity... so I am not certain you'll make the cut, brother.

>Call me a heretic, what say you of my father?

He has returned the messiah , here your new hat king of the jews

You call me the son of perdition and the man of sin? Yet do I speak the words of myself or the words of my father? Lmao. Do I oppose God or exalt myself over God? No! I fear God. I tremble during his Lightning storms and his Earthquakes. God knows I fear him. We are mere dust and he holds the Earth in his hand like that of a grain of sand. I have no power, I'm a slave who works from 11 hours a day except on the Sabbath in order to keep it holy of which I try my best. I go around to enlighten and give the truth to you fools and to wake up my people and I am called the Anti-Christ? You are under a dilusion and in line with that son for you to think of me in that way. What godless one USES THE WORD OF GOD TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF? GOD NEEDS NOT JUSTIFY HIMSELF WITH WORD, HE JUSTIFIES BY EXISTENCE FOR HE IS THE WORD! You devil!

How am I twisting the word. Admit that you don't want to bow down and serve us and shut the hell up. THE LAWS WERE GIVEN TO THE ISRAELITES AND NOBODY ELSE AS GOD STATES! I'm not your brother because you accept not the truth. You accept religion over truth. Know this devil.

Repent, believe, and be baptized. This is what Christ commanded.

I'm no Messiah. I can't even save myself lol. I work for heathens 4 days a week. I'm poor and have nothing but faith which has led me to the light of my father who has always saved me even though he was the last one I counted on.

You'll be saved because you'll be a damn slave and servant you damn fool. WE ARE NOT EQUAL AND NEVER WILL BE!

Deuteronomy 28:13
And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them

ABOVE ONLY!

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

>22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

so scripture already called adam and eve gods , the only thing lacking is the promise of eternal life from from jesus

Israel will be saved that was gods promise what ever that means , the talmud jews are not israel

Pride comes before the fall.
You're very full of yourself.

I find it amusing how you twist the Word only to exalt yourself. But hey, it's your soul.

This is why God has this to say about you fools. I an Israelite come in the name of my father and Christ too. In order to be a light to you fools and I get called the Anti-Christ? I'm called the lawless one yet you fools go around saying there's 10 laws when there's 613 laws? You sya they are invalid but God says these laws are here until all is fulfilled and God will put his laws in my people's hands and heads to keep and be righteous and perfect as he is in Heaven and I have faith that day is soon. You devils are the ones without laws and are under a dilusion. You creatures of vanity.

>613 laws
Pharisee, detected.
Dropped.

You may be saved in the end, only God knows, but you have a lot to learn. Just as much as I do.

>Keep blaming others,

Nice projecting.

Why are you even here? You hate the place, you hate the people.
You're like a neonazi skinhead who goes to a punkrock concert in some antifa squat and then starts to complain that people look at him funny.

God was talking to my people when he said that. The 144,000 and Christ whom are his first born fruits. Who are alive today on this Earth, while Christ is in heaven. I honestly believe I am of them or maybe I just ironically I have the Salvation of the Lord as my last name and I'm the only one in my family awakened to this truth. Not to mention their job is to preach the gospel to the world including the heathen so that they maybe saved. Meanwhile as they go around preaching those accept the gospel will be beheaded BUT shall be amongst the first resurrection. However, that's not what is being debated. Scripture didn't call them Gods they said they were like them. Adam and Eve sinned. God and his first fruits were sin free. Israel shall be saved because we are God's children. He loves all of Israel because we are his children therefore he will save us all. Would you let your child die and suffer forever if you could prevent it from happening? Of course, so why wouldn't God? God set us to rule and be Holy which means separate and above all. My people will judge the angels, not just you men! I know the Talmudic jews are devils. I made this clear. You heathens antagonize the real jews. The dark skin wooly haired Jews in America. The Sephardi Jews. The Jews in Africa. The Jews in the Middle East. The world hates us and targets us. Our brothers and sisters in Europe(NOT THE ASKENAZI JEWS THEY ARE DEVILS) are persecuted too to an extent but its less racial because their white but its more social.

(((Jesus)))
he isn't saving anyone

I'm a Pharisee because I say they're 613 laws? They're 613 laws maybe more lol. You are not saved by the law neither am I nor my people. We are saved by the fact we are Gods children and we are also saved in the faith that our brother and King Christ will come down from the Heavens with his army of angels and with them we will fight against all the nations with our barehands until you all submit and bow down and worship at our feet as it is written. I know because I'm an Israelite and I have faith. I put my faith in God and he has never put me to shame EVER and will NEVER! I tried enlightening your people but you refuse to be a servant. There's people around the world accepting servitude yet you devils refuse but still think highly of yourselves. That pride will kill you all.

Matthew 12
We are all equal friend

>46While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

>20Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. 21And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. 22But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

24And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.

Your megalomania is interesting, but you lie when you say you want to save anyone but yourself, and you talk like a filthy Muslim looking forward to 72 virgins to be your slaves.

If you were truly of God, you wouldn't be such a dickhead.

God doesn't send the wolf to gather His sheep.

You're not coming from a place of love.
You're consumed with your own self righteousness.

Furthermore, the 144,000 could be those who are pure and saved, and the Gentiles could be all who must suffer the Tribulation in order to be cleansed, and believe.

Ah i get it now being one of the 144,000 gives you special snow flake status and you can judge the fallen angels and man ,and then condemn them to hell ? worst job ever

>For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

>21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.