The Stupidest Actual Arguments Against Communism

Well done on failing to understand human nature retard. Face it, you're a loser who needs the government to gibsme dat because you're not capable of earning it yourself. If you want to be wealthy you have to earn it, capitalism allows people to get very rich. There will always be poorfags like you, therefore there will always be socialists

How about you just kill yourself?

>true communism just hasn't been tried yet

wrong image

Go back to starving in a gulag, commie faggot

"The Stupidest Actual Arguments Against Communism"
Great title for this thread, you guys are giving me great material.

Stop that permanent revolution meme

Just try refuting the Human nature argument you pseudo-intellectual bastard. Trotsky/Vygotsky tried spinning it as human condition and applying it in the soviet union and failed spectacularly because humans are not as simple as a sponge that absorbs/internalizes concepts mindlessly.

tried denying it exists and spinning*

Are you going to at least attempt a counter argument? If you had written out such a long post to start, I would have already written you off as bait.

You see, the funny thing about life is that it's all about perspective. Even making an attempt to see life through someone else's eyes is important in my opinion.

I'm going to make a large list of assumptions about you. Of course, because this is all anonymous, you can choose to confirm or deny or even ignore any of these assumptions:

1. You are a male (if you are not a male, ignore everything else below)
2.You are between the ages of 17-25.
3. You have attended/currently attend university
4. Growing up, you had a very loving mother who tended to shelter you more often then not.
5. You never really demanded respect, but rather an easy going guy who most people liked.
6. While in middle school or high school, you never played any physical sports (football, wrestling, hockey etc.)
7. If you ever wanted something, you never achieved through means of force and coercion. You were more then happy to give things up had it meant you needed to fight for it.

If formatting is messed up, it's because I'm on my phone.

Ayn Rand may be a libertardian kike, but Atlas Shrugged did BTFO most of the pillars of communism

>the rich exploit the poor
>therefore you should commit ethnic suicide

Excellent argument my friend, tell me more about how that facial you received from Tyrone really opened your eyes to the class struggle

>What are your arguments for Communism even mattering?
It doesn't exist.

But righties love having an excuse for shitting their skirts so they like to terrify themselves with this kind of ridiculous, made-up nonsense. Same with "cultural marxism" and other conspiracy theories. All programmed to keep them in a state of fear, all designed to control the feeble minded.

t. twink voiced tory

Just like all other leftists, your "arguments" against our points are just "lol u r just stupid and insecure :^) when will you wake up to [what makes me fearful / what I think it important]"

Communism is Anarchy. Anarchy can not be maintained. Sage.

>This is like saying if anti-matter and matter cannot co-exist, what about peanut butter and honey sandwiches?
i'd like a peanut butter and honey sandwich desu

>achieved through means of force and coercion
Yeah thats the human nature im looking for!

>one/ a small group of males leading a much larger group
DAE Men are better bc human nature!!1!11!!

What if some are born better than others? Would you accept it and support them, or whine about how it's unfair to conceal your jealousy?

>Social Democracy is just COMMUNISM

Is the stupidest one by my standards.

It's funny Marxism and Socialism have been the biggest taboos in western discourse; but Cred Forums - known for being politically taboo - HATES THEM.

Ok, well you are a female.

If we can't agree on the simple FACT of human biology, then we will simply get no where.

>Men are better Btc human nature

Never said that anywhere. Just stating the fact that men a women fill biological roles in both society and nature.

Your insecurities are showing.

Read up on some psychology, namely Skinner's "Beyond Freedom and Dignity" chapters 3, 4 and 8. And then some Vygotsky to see how skewed the understanding of the human mind is when the Marxist dialectic is applied.

Capitalism is by its very nature a great way of tricking people into thinking they are free, the 1% have understood this, some probably dont understand at all and just benefit from this (or believe in it themselves), self sustaining systems and big machines and all that.

Capitalist ruse 1: Mobility must be possible, it doesnt matter how hard it is or how unlikely the 1% have to accept that sometimes people will move upward, by not blocking this, like in other systems via things like murder or imprisonment (most of the time) you create part of what is rule 2

Capitalist ruse 2: Stratification and population, the other crucial factor is to make sure you dont over work the population you have, so just make sure you have more, or outsource the work that needs doing if you dont to actual slaves in other countries. Next make sure that people believe they are better than each other by creating large enough cash differences between groups so they are split into groups who believe they are better worse off than each other.

This system creates a great self sustaining idea of blaming each other and creating differences to make sure that people never realise they are being fucked.

Peasants knew they were getting fisted but as long as they had food and protection they just enjoyed what they had, but just like the banking crisis, any time a crisis hit, they were the ones who got fucked, but the thing is, when you have no system of mobility or any major stratification of people the only ones to blame are nobles, so you get revolution.

The same occurs in socialism and most other systems like it, by not making enough divisions between people, the super rich are immediately obvious and there are not enough differences between the poor to matter.

The difference between these systems and capitalism is the method of tricking millions of people that they are better than each other, and that they can achieve what only 100 people will ever achieve in terms of amazing success.

>Just like all other leftists, your "arguments" against our points are just "lol u r just stupid and insecure :^)
Yes, Call me Captain Obvious, but if you were capable of measuring and analyzing your imaginary threat, you'd quickly realize communism is quite seriously the least possible threat on the planet.

>when will you wake up to [what makes me fearful / what I think it important]"
How about I instead educate you as to what is real and not real. Then you won't always be terrified, standing in a puddle of piss, doing whatever your propaganda masters tell you to fear.

kys, commie

by doing this you manage to convince millions of peasant level people into believing that they are actually better off and in this way will actually defend the political system thats not that much different from any other.

These two posts are the insane, barely coherent ramblings of someone who I very sincerely doubt speaks English as a first language. There is nothing here but ad hominims, kafkatraps, and false equivalencies, and these are repeated so many times I won't take the time to point them all out.

That said, I feel special attention needs to be paid to this line;
>This is like saying if anti-matter and matter cannot co-exist, what about peanut butter and honey sandwiches?

Where to fucking begin. Anti-matter and matter cannot co-exist by fucking definition. When they so much as touch each other they annihilate each other and produce pure energy. No matter or anti-matter is left over afterwards. Fire and gasoline have a better chance of co-existing than matter and anti-matter. And what the fuck are you going on about honey and peanut butter sandwiches? What the fuck? Do they just remove your language center when you start taking Marx seriously or something? No wonder everyone hates communists, they're so stupid it gives me a headache just trying to comprehend simple analogies.

leftypol and /his/ unite!!!!!!11!!1111!!!!

The thing is capitalism uses positive reinforcement as a mean of control, making the shackles invisible to the average person, instead of cutting your tongue when you speak against your masters, they give you a candy when you obey them.

And what system would actually lead to people being free?

>Men are better Btc human nature

>Never said that anywhere.

>ne/ a small group of MALES leading

Freudian slip comrade

Owning land is not human nature, look at the history of mankind please. Murdering people for property rights is not human nature. Exploiting the workers who then DO ALL THE WORK on your newly acquired land is not human nature.

Doing all that shit to humanity is the nature of greedy fuckers that shouldn't even be called humans. SO FUCK YOUR HUMAN NATURE. Be glad that someone cares about you enough to try to explain that to you, rather than just laughing at you for being an idiot.

You guys took Darwin way too far. Sure if you are born smarter and bigger than everyone you are "better" fine I get that. But to then say that its human nature to use your brains to exploit workers, and your strength to forcibly seize property and land....that's just fucking retarded. Those are not the advantages that lead to evolution like Darwin states. That kind of greed is inhumane, and in the context of society, is what halts evolution.

That's right, that's why socialism and other systems fail, because they don't understand this system works better than most.

I wouldn't know, I'm happy with the systems the first world has to be honest, you can move up in the world if you are lucky, but on top of that artistic people can generally manage to be creative in this system without being in too much danger of starving half the time so long as they are smart, that's enough for me since that's all I really care about.

I mean, a system like socialism where people don't take advantage of each other would be the most free I'd say, but humans are too inherently prone to corruption to manage to make such a system without ending up with a 1% taking advantage so chaotic capitalism is probably the best we can do for now.

Also I wasn't really dissing on capitalism in case that's what you thought, just helping people understand why it always succeeds and socialism tends to fail.

So humans have no inherent qualities and faculties, born as a blank piece of paper only to be smeared with whatever comes at them, is that your position?

You literally said nothing of substance and just confirmed exactly what I said.

>If Communism and Capitalism cannot co-exist, what about Communism and Nationalism.

Communism is opposite capitalism by fucking definition, where if capitalism is a part of a communist society, would annihilate the fact that it is in fact communist, producing pure ideology.

You got that? I know logic is barely coherent for you but I hope you see how I juxtaposed the two opposites of cap/com and antim/matter. Glad you could expand on that for the people who didnt know. As for the peanut butter and honey thing, thats just a metaphor for 2 things that don't normally go together, but can work (and be delicious), however if you eat too much you can get fat. Communism/Nationalism dont normally go together, but can work, but can also be dangerous or not ideal.

Was that line of logic too abstract for you? You cant follow simple metaphors?

Finally got a real response out of you.

>owning land, murder, explotation is not a part of human nature.

We've done it sense the dawn of man, and will continue to do so until the end of time. It is not just human nature, but the nature of almost all beings known on Earth. It's the competition of survival. It is the very thing engraved into us.

I realize you won't agree with me on this, and that's fine, but you must look at it with a different perspective.

Albeit capitalism is a greedy standpoint, it would be ignorant of me to deny that, but human nature is greedy. I feel like I'm being a bit redundant but I want you to understand this, these are the key components that make us human.

I'm sorry honey, but I wish the world could be sunshine and rainbows. You're going to have to face the truth of reality, and it's going to hit you like a brick wall.

Yeah.. let's do global income equality. It is shitty that some people get toilets and others shit in the dirt. It is stupid that some people get to eat McDonald's while others are literally making pies out of mud (the same mud they just took a shit in)

Let's equalize the planet. We all should be eating dirt pies.

From each according to their ability, to each according to need..

Did I mention that I get incredible anxiety about work? I just can't do anything. Also my back hurts...

I have an extremely fast metabolism. I require more than 6000 calories a day.. I require a modern PC because I'm hopelessly addicted to video games...

Thanks, comrad.

>So humans have no inherent qualities and faculties, born as a blank piece of paper only to be smeared with whatever comes at them, is that your position?
Does it even matter? Regardless if the are born with it or if they learn it from their life experience, sure there will be people who are greedy fucks, who want to use their evolutionary advantages to exploit.

But there's also this population that exists who use their evolutionary advantages to help people. Both sides can be human nature, or learned behaviour. I'm not here to debate nature vs nurture. Im here to tell you guys that its not okay for 1% of the population to have the wealth of the other 99% combined.

You being from a privileged area where you are not exploited as hard as kids in Africa, means you are inherently in favor or your position, and to think that your strength, intellect, or willpower is that much more evolutionary advanced as HALF the population of the world that lives off $2.50/day...Well you are just a completely egocentric asshole who contributes nothing to the evolution of mankind.

Don't get me wrong, a total Darwinian society would be absolute hell on earth.

When it comes down to it, you believe it's up to the government to redistribute the wealth while I believe it's up to the individual as he/she sees fit.

>I mean, a system like socialism where people don't take advantage of each other would be the most free

The flaw in this belief is that socialism (and all forms of marxism) inevitably leads to a centralism of power to control the lives of individuals. This power always gets abused or misused one way or another.

I don't think I'm necessarily better than starving kids in Africa and I certainly don't work as hard...

But I do recognize that scarcity exists.

I'm all for everyone being able to be provided for. I'll work towards that end with you so long as you agree that my privilege shall not be revoked. The goal is to provide privilege to all, not take away my privilege. Some people having air conditioning is better than none

Also holy shit you are retarded.

>owning land, murder, exploitation is not a part of human nature.

>We've done it sense the dawn of man, and will continue to do so until the end of time. It is not just human nature, but the nature of almost all beings known on Earth. It's the competition of survival.

Survival? the 1% of the population acquiring more wealth than the 99% is survival?
Ill tell you what survival is, its half the population of the world living off of $2.50/day...revolting against the ruling class that subjects the masses to be slaves or die. You know what the #1 reason for death is across world history, and even still every year, poverty.

It is in the nature of all things to lash out when oppressed, exploited, and killed. That's the human nature, capitalism will fall, communism will rise.

You didn't read. please read my whole post before you make yourself look like a fool.

I said greed was a part of human nature. What you described is greed.

Please read and think before you post.

Yeah, but do you know that scarcity is perpetuated by business, one example of many (n p r org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4736044)? Heres another headline (US Government Orders Farmers To Destroy 30 Million Pounds Of Their Own Crop)

Everyone was told by capitalist propaganda that the commies are gonna take your toothbrush!!!!11!1 and all that shit, but thats not true.

We have the land, technology, resources and workforce to provide for all.

When it comes down to it, I can tell who you are inside.

You hate yourself. You hate what you believe society has made you, therefore you lash out on the only reasonable thing you can in this situation, and that's anyone in a position of power.

It has nothing to do with you wanting to help others and truly believing this was the best for humanity. If that was the case you wouldn't be sitting here complaining, you would be out helping some malnourished child in Africa.

It has everything to do with the fact that you hate the people who hold power. you were never able to Gardner respect. You know you will never achieve greatness and you know you will never be the "1%", so instead of bringing yourself up to society's standards, you want the whole of society to lower to yours.

What have YOU done personally. Tell me, I'm waiting. Have you housed the homeless? Have you fed starving children? Have you given your spot in your university to an under privileged child? No, of course not, because you too are GREEDY. Don't act holier than thou.

At the end of the day, the person you care most about is yourself. Stop lieing to yourself, there's nothing wrong with watching out mostly for yourself, it's....

HUMAN
NATURE

I did read your post and I am replying to every argument you make with logic and facts, you have not actually tried to counter my points, so I guess you understand my argument.

>Does it even matter? Regardless if the are born with it or if they learn it from their life experience, sure there will be people who are greedy fucks, who want to use their evolutionary advantages to exploit. But there's also this population that exists who use their evolutionary advantages to help people.

>I said greed was a part of human nature. What you described is greed.
No I literally told you that it doesn't matter if greed is human nature or learned. There are greedy people, they exploit the poor. There are helpful people, they help people. How am I describing greed when I say that it is human nature for helpful people to help the exploited, to overthrow the ruling class. (and according to you, with any force necessary to take back land, property, etc...because its "human nature")

>you believe it's up to the government to redistribute the wealth while I believe it's up to the individual as he/she sees fit.

When individuals are not egotistic, they can join with other individuals to to "as they see fit." That's how government and democracy are supposed to work. But thats not reality, the government is the extension of the capital ruling class. So, I agree with you, it is up to the individuals that want to stop exploitation, to team up, and seize the means of production. Redistribute Wealth? no man I dont want ur xbox, no one needs that shit to survive. Redistributing private property doesn't mean we want your house or your car...or any other shit capitalist propaganda told you we want.

>REEEE I AM A STRNG INDEPENDENT WIMYM, WHY WONT YOU ACCEPT COMMUNISM

...

>Better Dead than red

No problem with that

Going by your reasoning a benevolent dictator would be more desirable than a communist utopia.

Your retarded and think that Capitalism and communism are the only options.
Communism looks exactly the same as capitalism.
Those at the top being "custodians" of the peoples wealth and making value judgments on their behalf.

Your a shit propagandist, this thread is a dry turd.

> Ill tell you what survival is, its half the population of the world living off of $2.50/day...revolting against the ruling class that subjects the masses to be slaves or die. You know what the #1 reason for death is across world history, and even still every year, poverty.
Shit! Maybe they should throw of their communist/capitalist "aid" giving oppressors, take personal charge and develop their economies like good distributists.

Go preach in one of your "safe spaces"

TLDR. Communism is a total failure, empirically.

>I can tell who you are inside. You hate yourself. You hate what you believe society has made you
Stop with the projection man, it hurts me to see you like this.

Again for the last time, you act like human nature is even a thing.

How can you refute that there are people who think about society more than themselves, and that's why they are doing good around the world, that's why penicillin was created, etc.

There are greedy people yes, its proven. There are helpful people that are unselfish, its proven. How do you extrapolate human nature to people's actions, it makes no fucking sense. You think its human nature to be a racist xenophobic fascist? NO people learn that shit. People learn they can be greedy by seeing other people get away with it. martin shkreli learns it from big pharma so he did it, yeah he wants to be rich, but that's greed that he learned. Same thing with the CEO of epi pen, she got 600% pay increase when she upd the epipen price 400%. People use that shit to save lives...If you ever speak about human nature just know that you are projecting yourself, and you not seeing that means the glasses of ideology are so far up ur ass, youd need 20 years in the gulag before you stopped blaming jews and human nature.

>, but the nature of almost all beings known on Earth
Not the native Americans. Serfs couldn't own real properties under any of the European monarchies before the Magna Carta

Ha you're a full blown communist and neither of us are going to get anywhere like this.

our qualia could not be further apart.

People don't only act on how they see others act, they also act the complete opposite to show how different and unique they are, they also act on the opposite of what they are told to show how independent and free they are. Human nature existing doesn't mean we are slaves to it.

43% of the 1% are Jews.

300 out of the 383 Bolshevik founders were Jews, and they were funded by Jews on Wall Street.

Capitalims and Marxism are both tools of the Jew used to undermine ethno-nationalism. Ethno-nationalist white societies are the best, but Marxists want to erode them with multiculturalism and immigration, just like capitalists do. Neither of you have any respect for tradition or aesthetics.

Communism somehow manages to make more people destitute than capitalism.

Oh and also,

>what have YOU done personally.

Still waiting

>I view all humans as extended family

Gulag train inbound.

>should throw of their communist/capitalist "aid" giving oppressors
The capitalists have taken their natural resources you fucking twat. Read a fucking history book, know some geopolitics, so you dont have to say stupid bullshit all the time, dont you get tired of not knowing what the fuck you are talking about?

I have used the most elementary logic to counter your points, and you dont have an argument, you just fail to create more arguments that just keep getting shittier. Now your argument is that Capitalism=Communism...the most completely fucking retarded argument I have ever seen, why didnt you just start with that? we wouldnt be arguing. Im under the impression that they are actually opposite...If I knew those were synonyms, you wouldn't have to spew out MUH HUMAN NATURE

The economic disaster in Easter Europe (except fore poland) is a consequence of the fall of communism and theire conversion to an economic system they're national structure were'nt adaptated to.

bro USSR wasn't economically communist, they had state-capitalism.. REEEEEad a fucking history book

Did communism fall in 1970s?
What?

>The economic disaster in Easter Europe (except fore poland) is a consequence of the fall of communism
The USSR was state capitalism. The workers produced public goods, but the party owned the good and determined their distribution.

>Now your argument is that Capitalism=Communism...the most completely fucking retarded argument I have ever seen

Communists argue that all the time though. Any communist regime (read: 90% of them) with a bad rep. gets labeled "state capitalist".

Seems like if 90% of the attempts to create """""""true communism""""""" are shit, you should stop trying.

The 3rd-world shitholes that sided with the USSR are worse now than ones that aligned with the capitalist West.

ECONOMIC
CALCULATION
PROBLEM

No ration price mechanism = inefficient distribution of resources = everyone starves

>government owns the means of production
>not real socialism lol

lmao, you can just walk up to a billionaire and just kill him like it's nothing

if you hate them so much why don't you? today, our kings walk among peasants, yesterday they had enough brain to stay away

pick up a gun, son

>tfw Karl Marx was wrong

What an argument!

>Have you housed the homeless? Have you fed starving children? Have you given your spot in your university to an under privileged child?

I didnt think this retarded ass point needed to be addressed...but yes. I have actually done a lot of charity work, I have house the homeless, I have shared a bed with my grandma because she couldnt afford housing in america while she worked full-time.

>Have you given your spot in your university to an under privileged child?
youve gone full retard so long ago the shit you say doesnt even surprise me. How does one go about giving his spot to an underprivileged child? You know what I probably did, cause I got accepted to most uni's but only chose 1 out of the 10, so yeah, I gave 10 underpriv children my spot.

My major is Public Health Sciences, I do global health undergraduate research and volunteer work. I will be joining the peace corp in a year from now, and I will be starting my own non-profit. I am a walking contradiction to ur asinine argument of MUH HUMAN NATURE, and I am glad there are more people like me, people who actually want to help people and make the world a better place. Not like the sack of shit consumer you are who cant even comprehend that concept, and disregards it as am impossibility. You really dont understand how meaningless your life is. I honestly hope you are getting an orgasm when all that capitalist propaganda goes in and out ur asses.

If you hate freedom so much then get the fuck out of this country.

You don't want to help anyone. You're a greedy piece of shot.

...

youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g

Watch this and look at how charity is used by capitalists as an ethical bribe against peoples' consciences. We believe that worlds can be built where people can live well, where adversarial market relations will become an anachronism, where people will only have to produce what they need and everyone will have sufficient free access to means of production as necessary. The point isn't to simply give charity but reconstruct society so that people can build, grow and make what they need without assholes knocking them over so they can extract a rent from others' work.

>Communism looks exactly the same as capitalism.
>Those at the top being "custodians" of the peoples wealth and making value judgments on their behalf.
Confirmed for not having studied any communist writers. The point is to make arrangement of market relations obsolete through redistribution of tools, land and space to work so that people can survive with dignity. Much of the earth's wealth has been alienated from the people living on it because of market exchanges forced either by public OR PRIVATE force.

This wealth inequality argument is bullshit.

>be capitalist country of 1000 people
>total wealth: 1,000,000$
>1% of people own 99% of this
>the other 99% are still left with 10,000$

>you have 10 people with 99K each
>and 990 people with 10.1$ each

>be communist country of 1000 people
>Total wealth is only 10000$ because your economy is shit
>spread it equally between 1000 people

>everyone has 10$ dead.

Under capitalism even the poorfags were better off.

Of course in reality even under communist rule people aren't equal, and high ranking party members will siphon off a good amount of those 10K for themselves, leaving the people with even less.

Ask yourself why a famine is unheard of in ANY capitalist country that isn't run by niggers, while it happens all the time with communism.

>mfw /leftypol/ tries to recruit for their dead board
>mfw no arguments to be found
Commies leave.

>Confirmed for not having studied any communist writers
Yup, this whole thread is filled with ignorance, the only communism they have heard is literal capitalist propaganda.

>ITT /leftypol/ thinks strawman fallacies are arguments

hint: they aren't

>In one word Capitalism is shit and kills people That's already more than one word you faggot. You should have added a ; or end the sent. there. If you can't even grammar better than a shit gook like me than what makes you think you can write jack shit on communism v.capitalism.

>/leftypol/ posters
>all from succesfull capitalist countries
Strange, where are the venezuelan flags?

>people like me, people who actually want to help people and make the world a better place.

Many of us on Cred Forums are ethno-nationalists. We want to help our race and nation and to an extent, other white nations and some areas of East Asia, such as Japan and South Korea.

We feel it's pointless and asinine to waste resources, when reality shows that most people don't change their ways. There are criminals that will always be lazy scumbags, no matter how much tax funds you throw at them. Sending aid to Africa is just funding African warlords are corrupt governments by-proxy 90% of the time.

We feel it's more productive to focus on our own countries and citizens. Also, we fund the Marxist and liberal-capitalist notion that you can mix all races and cultures together to be disgusting. This leads to cultural erosion and destruction of artifacts and a sense of belonging. Marxists and liberal-capitalists both want to reduce humans to being like materialistic animals, who don't care about tradition or culture. Mao did this in his "cultural revolution", where he banned/destroyed old Chinese artifacts, art, and literature, and even had poets and artists imprisoned and killed - all for the sake of promoting Marxist materialism. Now China is a bland shithole. It's ironic that you preach humanism so much, while wanting to destroy the very things that differentiate humans from animals.

Lastly, we believe in meritocracy and hierarchy. Not all people are skilled, athletic, or intelligent enough to be leaders. Forcing all production to bend to the will of the lowest common denominator is faulty, because the lowest common denominator is full of lazy retards who only want gibs. It's the same concept as giving control of a kindergarten class to the children, then saying that the teacher was "oppressing" them. Are there rich people who are idiots just coasting on their parents' money? Of course; but they eventually squander the family fortune.
(cont.)

shut the fuck up amerifag

>Flag

Nigger are you literally from reddit.

>nomadic tribes that slaughtered each other every other week
>communism

hahahhaha jesus fucking christ, the left is hilarious

...

its actually a play on how Marx himself uses "in one word" in the Communist Manifesto...One would think that you would need to actually read that before you write jack shit?

You see how much joy ur stupidity is giving me?

The very fact that Communism is based on materialism means that it's leaders always get subverted by greed and become just as corrupt as those capitalists they decry

Anyone from /leftypol/ want to explain to me why your board is obsessed with us and is nothing but a reactionary board that takes the memes from here and reverses it in an attempt to expose a non-existent hypocrisy?

Also why did you guys think this image would trigger us when we already know the Bush family is corrupted?

>I did read your post and I am replying to every argument you make with logic and facts,
lmfao

>communist intellectuals

holy shit what an utter embarrassment you are

lol

>ywn systematically wipe out the US government with your vanguard party

We feel that there still needs to be a level of hierarchy in society, the management level of production. This allows society to be led meritocratically, and aspire to higher goals; and not become a society where mob-rule appeals to the lowest of drives.

That doesn't mean we hate all aspects of social welfare programs. The German National Socialists had free healthcare, and various other welfare programs. Many of us on the nationalist right support these too, because they help keep the white society healthy and focused.

Even if we concede that native americans were commies, that still makes you look bad. Native Americans were unable to defend themselves because they never innovated and were stuck in a backwards primitive nomadic or agricultural lifestyle. Great utopia.

...

Just one more try!!!!!

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>pic
You realize you can get a part of the 1% if you work hard enough today?

communism ruined countless countries and killed millions

meanwhile without capitalism you wouldn't even have a computer to access the internet

the communist manifesto is a salty morally and economically bankrupt losers take on capitalism who had life handed to him on a silver platter and fucked it up being such a loser. There's no legitimate argument through any of it, just redefining terms and offering solutions that'd make anyone reasonably intelligent, successful, and wealthy laugh heartily

>I'm going to recruit for lefty/pol/ by using terminology that only leftists can understand
>If you didn't know what it actually means in leftyspeak about then you are stupid
sage

>shartposter can't even spell feudalism
>unironically calling people racist

This.

These leftards cant even shill efficiently

they had extensive tribes, with a population of over 100 million. Woah a culture that has existed longer than any of its contemporary civilization has a different way of life than you?!?! holy shit the horror!!11!! And their skin was brown, wow, clearly not ideal... They fed 100 million with a lot of their meat coming from buffalo, how long did it take capitalism to take buffalo to their near extinction?

>liberalism is materialist

Kek,The liberal phylosphy is idealist as fuck.

>they had extensive tribes
Aside from a few civilizations like the Mayans, Incas, etc. False.

>a population of over 100 million
No not at all. Try 10 million.

>muh buffalo almost went extinct
That was done on purpose your retard.

kys btw

That's not the original hierarchy of humans. We differ markedly from common chimpanzees in that regard.

One of those countries has been embargoed for 50 years.
Also what a surprise, when capitalists are allowed into your country to exploit the workers........WHATS GONNA HAPPEN...OH SHIT THE GDP IS GOING TO GO UP
1% has the wealth of 99%, this inflates GDPs JUST SO YOU KNOW. you dont need to be an economist to see that shit...

The point I made that you couldn't see because you have your head so far up your self righteous ass is that you are constantly talking yourself up to be this holier then thou magnificent man doing his part for man kind by sacrificing his life for the betterment of his comrade.

You are the embodiment of the typical socialist I always talk to. They're all talk, no walk.

Anyone can open their mouth and speak words. Talking is easy.

You hate this system so much yet you are so intertwined and so apart of it. You help build it and hear you are, a slave to it, while you sit on your ass and do absolutely nothing about it.

>have you given your spot in your university?
It reads exactly as it says, and yet You still did not answer it correctly at all. The answer would be "No". Plain and simple, no need to beat around the bush.

>I am glad there are more people like me! Look at me! I am so glad they're are GOOD people in this world like ME ME ME!!

it all comes full circle and yet you're too blind to even see it.

computers and internet were made from public programs including public universities....DAE NO INNOVATION WITHOUT CAPITALISM???

Payed by taxpayers and all of those scientists are wage laborers

>muh communism invented the internet

and they would remain in universities in commie land
or do you think the goberment is gonna make a sector that produces computers for the peasants to use? lmao. plus look at soviet cars, they were fucking trash. imagine their mass produced computers

no he knew exactly what I meant, BCAUSE IT FUCKING ENGLISH. It just happened to be ironic to the max because he is trying to say I dont know what im talking about when it comes to communism...whereas if you actually read the tenants of communism (something you should be familiar with before discussing communism) you would know the reference. Irony... You can you understand irony cant you? Oh wait you cant because you'd realize this thread is called "The Stupidest Actual Arguments Against Communism" and you are feeding them to me

>100 million
>a lot of their meat coming from buffalo
Not accurate numbers. Also, lmaoing at the concept that you can feed any major society today on free-grazing bison herds alone. I can tell nobody in your family comes from an ag background.

Liberalism is all about materialism. It's about glorifying the pursuit of base desires, and putting emphasis on the self. Liberalism is synonymous today with a disrespect for old ways and customs. You autistic commies need to realize that not everything plays out according to the books written by socialist philosophers.

Communism IS a conspiracy theory retard.
No wonder you feel a need for others to sustain you and those like you.

They are just so self righteous. They bring the standard of conversation down worse than any Aus/Can shitposter.

Your "movements" don't move towards any of that! YOU are the ones fucking up your own position, where is matters IN PHYSICAL REALITY! NOT A FUCKING BOOK!

You are just making slaves for corporations and states. The Fabian strategies are too easily subverted or recuperated by capitalist bodies like the fashion industry (as a tiny example) and a violent "revolution" would simply demand central control again.

Localism/ small state nationalism/ libertarianism/distributism

you can literally seize the means of production right now. But your all too stupid and want others to do it for you. Hence why you want to import people from the pools of sustained poverty and overpopulation to come work for giant corporations and state monopolies. That isn't going to achieve anything there or here. Just more people, more control, more centralization. You just wonder around trying to groom kids to wave a red flag, take drugs and running interference for those that keep the working classes down. well done.

there will be no "dignity" left by the time you idiots wake up.

i know that this is pointless and nobody cares, but gotta take this of my heart

that picture is false, if you think the only difference between peasant and knight is armour you should kys filthy materialist

pic related

"Most scholars writing at the end of the 19th century estimated the pre-Columbian population as low as 10 million; by the end of the 20th century most scholars gravitated to a middle estimate of around 50 million, with some historians arguing for 100 million or more." -Right from wikipedia with a penguin books source.

Yes but you see he is a monkey

You can squawk until you turn blue in the face commie fag.

The fact remains that creating a system where hard work is punished (by wealth redistribution) will always devolve into a Ruling Class and a Working Class.

You see, someone still has to manage the redistribution to make sure it goes to the right places. Whoever that someone is ends up with the "power behind the power" in their hands.

>native tribes with small populations and no real form of currency because there was no use for it (under developed agriculture, lack of surplus)
>sharing and bartering worked well with the absence of money
>It WUZ CoMMuNiZM GUiz!!!11!1!!!
stop

i.imgur.com/SxpX2pT.png

bottom part is /thread

so you're willing to sacrifice innovation which is non-existent in communism so a few extra niggers can be on dem programs?

I thought state capitalism wasnt real communism its either one or the other you fucking red scum

>have you given your spot in your university?
again, never actually responding to my fucking points, which are logically shitting on your arguments over and over again. I asked you, how does one give up their spot at uni? You know that decision is not up to the student? Are you asking if I have dropped out so 1 more student can be admitted? If so you realize how fucking retarded that question is right?

Also how is spending 4 years of my life studying PUBLIC HEALTH, and doing GLOBAL HEALTH RESEARCH, all while being a volunteer and spreading awareness, all talk? its not. Its called devoting your life to the PUBLIC.

The major fallacy of communism is that it demands to be judged by its goals, not its results. Once the results are examined it is abundantly clear to any reasonable person that socialism, communism or any variant is without a doubt the worst economic system mankind ever made.

By that same standard capitalism is inherently selfish, but the capitalist cannot become rich without first enriching the lives of others. If you judge capitalism by its results then it is clear to any reasonable person that the overwhelming evidence clearly indicates that capitalism and not communism is the superior economic system.

Once again the major fallacy always cited by socialist is that their intentions are noble so in turn their economic system is superior when in reality it's a horrible system.

Socialism is predicated by economic virtue signaling

>Murdering people for property rights is not human nature.

You're making an incorrect assumption in these. The Injuns were not peaceful commies, they fought each-other and scalped each-other constantly. They had ethno-cultural separation between the tribes, as well. Also, many of them starved to death or died of sickness during the winters.

Your argument that we should be like the Injuns is faulty, because that would mean a primitive-society. You wouldn't have time to shitpost on Cred Forums because you would be too busy skinning animals to make a tent so you wouldn't freeze to death next month. Modern agriculture gave people the ability to focus on other things, and build new technologies. Modern agriculture = private farms and ag industry. It's the most efficient, and countries where ag is highly-collectivized lead to inefficiency and food shortages. See: the USSR.

Boris Yeltsin made a trip to America, and he literally cried when he saw a rural Texas supermarket, because the Soviets were not used to such abundance. He felt his people had been betrayed for decades.

the manifesto litteraly say the OPPOSITE of that, learn to read. that's part is about the bourgeois accusations aigaint communist, the guy who made this is retarded.

MTD shitposting

seriously, those are just false if you ever read the actual thing, and not a fucking anti-semetic meme

For you argument that communism isn't ideological, you sure depend on people understanding your books and terms correctly.

...pretty much.

Socialism is an ideology. Communism is a form of Government. Socialist ideology can have a positive impact on political discourse, just ask Bismarck. Communism is a failed form of Utopian Governance.

This does not mean the society you live in is not in need of change. Nothing is ever perfect. CONSTANT VIGILANCE.

Saying you wouldnt have computer and internet without capitalism is fucking retarded, because supply and demand didnt lead to this innovation, smart people with determination did. Not determination to make profit (they attempted to privatize the internet, but the inventors wouldnt allow it)

The problem with your picture is that most people don't make minimum wage and most people aren't stuck at minimum wage by force. Choice, that's the difference. Kill yourself fucking commie.

some of the greatest innovators of all time refused to monetize their discoveries, so much for your profit driven innovation amirite?

>some

Truly an astounding metric.

There is nothing more to say to you. You are so flustered you have resorted to only self ass kissing at this point. This is no argument. I clearly wrote out the point you missed and again you completely missed it and continued to be self righteous.

You are all talk. You probably just got done calling your friend on your iPhone, who picked you up from a public university in his Ford, after You guys stopped and ate at chipotle. You came home, turned on your Mac and began acting self righteous on an American image board.

>I am a great person. I do not believe in these capitalistic pigs!

Open your fuckin eyes dude, you're blind!

Don't get flustered and don't let your anger control you.

>not determination to make a profit

The internet itself was created through national defense priorities, a government endeavor, but it wasn't until it was privatized and capitalized upon that it could be distributed to the masses. Capitalism is what allows you to spew your anti-semtic trash.

ITT: communists who still haven't been shot and turned into pig feed.

>tries to argue
>adds literally everywhere to seem smarter
You're a mouth breather.

>Fucking anti semtic meme
>argument
at least try to hold your facade and try to stay logic

Communism is freat on paper and all. But in reality it is horribly inefficient, partially because of centralized planning, but also because the incentive structures are not in place. It simply does not jibe with human nature. I'm all for communism in a futuristic, post scarcity society where robots do 99% of the work, but we are some ways out from thay being a reality

Used twice in quotes to mock the person who said people are "literally being replaced"

The other, because in the literature that outlines the communist party, it states the main goal, which this guy didnt understand. So I had to whip out the "literally"

Grats you pointed I used the word "literally" 2 times ironically right after they used the word incorrectly. And I used it 1 time in its most basic definition to rehash the most basic tenet of communism, that can be found if one actually read the manifesto...Yeah dude your are a cuck, grats

Yeah....im being logical, sorry. My bad for stating how the communist manifesto may be a better source than a Rothschild conspiracy meme when it comes to the basic outlines of communism.

>4 years of my life studying PUBLIC HEALTH, and doing GLOBAL HEALTH RESEARCH
>spreading awareness

How does it feel to be a tool?

I spent 4 years of my life studying history. In those four years I learned that communists are either A, misguided idiots that believe all the propaganda they have been exposed too or B, con artists and thugs that know how to manipulate those in group A. I also learned that the revolution will do more long term harm than good, the Bush wars of Southern Africa are a great case study of how bad communists can fuck things up.

You fall into group A. What exactly is spreading awareness, how does that help anybody, and what specifically will people do with that information?

Yeah, but do you know that scarcity is perpetuated by business, one example of many (n p r org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4736044)? Heres another headline (US Government Orders Farmers To Destroy 30 Million Pounds Of Their Own Crop)

Communism just doesn't work irl, you sperg.

Bringing in a fresh perspective on the argument here.
I think an aspect of the capitalism/communism dispute that hasn't been addressed enough is that giving workers the means of production is the only way to have a sustainable, truly efficient economic system.
This is the founding principle of communism. The fist concept Marx lays. Then around it are built frivolous arguments for non-issues and legitimizing entitlements for the ones that contribute the least to the economy.
Ever heard 'we vote with our money somewhere'? We don't live in a capitalistic society; capital only holds as much power as the people and the politicians that crawl to please them allow in order to obtain their desired goods and services. Employing capital to ends that offends the populace or disturbs their supply of goods and services is outlawed, fought against and excluded by means of social norms.
We live in a communist society; the means of production are in control of the people. The rich are rich because taxing them further upsets their ability to build new supply lines for the people. Their attempts at using capital to subvert this system never lasts; the longer it does the stronger the backlash of the people.
A dollar only has value because people have faith in its ability to buy them what they want.
You think the rich are evil and should be fought? Go ahead and prevent them from allocating capital in the economy. See what people think you when they don't own the means of production because an elite within the state hold exclusive power over them.

How come every communist state that has ever existed has been lame as fuck?

>b-but muh Cuban doctors
Nice internet and living standard over there in Cuba

How does your history "knowledge" help anyone around the world? It actually doesnt, cause apparently you ate all of the capitalist propaganda up and now you think you are an authority. If you understand the Vietnam War, which would be a disgrace if not, then you would understand how the capitalist ruling class fucks over any communist country that tries to liberate itself from it.

Feudalism is rather unfairly displayed there. The soldiers or knights of feudal society were largely nobles. Peasants were treated rather fairly when it came to the legal system. When judges don't really care about women or men because they are all just peasants you get a rather unbiased justice system. Landed nobility even back then didn't have that much relative wealth.

so you claim bakunin was a conspirancy theorist, he has written about rothschild and Marx. You have no clue about anything related to philosophy and history. As someone who has read "Das Kapital" i can assure, you really aren't getting his points.

no it doesnt you fucking retard it says "Communists desire to introduce, an openly legalised community of women. "

He defines "community of women" as "a system of wives in common". This is the basis of the free love movements in the 60s.

Fucking illiterate retard, the only communists left on earth are illiterates and shills

I'm literally just exposing his ideology word for word and you call it a meme. He literally calls for forced cuckoldry. Kill yourself commie cuck.

Nobody wants to work in a communist country, because people are actually 100% subhuman and driven by obsolete instincts and emotions, and therefore full communism is something only usable for robots. The only thing you can get is light socialism.

When the bolsheviks collectivized all their farms, nobody wanted to work there because it wasn't theirs, resulting in famine.

In Yugoslavia, factories were run by some sort of committee with the workers in them, so they can avoid putting the little man in shit. So everyone stole and shifted the blame on each other until the debt became huge. Pol Pot tried to make a fully self-sufficient country, only to realize you can only turn dumb people into literal drones so he ordered every single person with shit-listed features to be removed.

There are many examples

>communism
>believing in authority, money

kys. both are illusions

They cant shake off the capitalist propaganda, it was feed to their parents as children, passed on to their children.
Literally the only commonalities between Western culture are: consume, communism is the worst evil know to man, and "its okay that slaves make my all my possessions"

>Stalin and Mao both had state capitalism….CAPITALISM
They had state socialism. The means of production were publicly owned, and therefore it was not capitalist.

Have you even read Marx? The point of the Manifesto was to point out the natural cycle of class conflicts, not to create a utopia

>how does your "knowledge" of history help anyone

I got my degree as a check on the list for law school. But I do volunteer with 4H and help out within my community. If you want to help your fellow man, look no further than your neighbor. I do not consider myself an authority, but after reading all of your posts it is clear you are retarded.

>If you understand the Vietnam War

I understand the Vietnam war for what it is. LBJ and company fucked up hard on that one. He turned what should have remained an advisory role into a full fledged conflict, against the advice of his generals. But understanding is a completely subjective thing based on biases. Historiographically speaking it is interpreted as you have said it, the communists defending themselves against the evil oppressors, that is the more radical view. Or as a misguided adventure of COIN.

Do you understand how a groups of blood thirsty commies in Africa took over what were prosperous nations and ran them into the ground? Or how they got their support by stoning women and children in the middle of a village? Zimbabwe can't feed itself and now relies on UN handouts.

>Democracy is the essence of good. Communism, the very essence of evil!

>Democracy is freedom
>Communism is tyranny!

>Death is a preferable alternative to Communism!

From Chapter 2 (marxists dot org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
>The Communists have no need to introduce community of women; it has existed almost from time immemorial.
>Our bourgeois, not content with having wives and daughters of their proletarians at their disposal, not to speak of common prostitutes, take the greatest pleasure in seducing each other’s wives.
>Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common and thus, at the most, what the Communists might possibly be reproached with is that they desire to introduce, in substitution for a hypocritically concealed, an openly legalised community of women.

Right in front of your eyes...who's illiterate?

in cased you missed:
it Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in commonBourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common

Manipulations of markets are a bad side effect of market based economies, yes. But scarcity still exists today, big time. Just go to any 3rd workd shit hole and the poverty is striking.

Meanwhile, market based economies have allowed for enormous advances in standard of living in the countries that have utilized them well these past 150 years. We went from 90% farming economy that struggled to feed a much smaller popuation to todays global digital economy. Here in the Us, even welfare families can buy their school aged kids smart phones and game systems and cool their homes in the summer time. What we have today is far fron perfect, but you cannot deny the progress that has occured under free markets.

Exactly. Would you rather be a rich person in the middle ages, or a middle class person today?

Again literally. But you are not providing any proofs, since communism failed every time it was tried, this would have to be extremly convincing ones.

Not related to my Post in any meaningful way.

this goy has 36 posts to his name and has this thread bumping higher and higher because us morons can't let this shit slide. if you complain about this board's degradation and bump threads like this (just like what I am doing right now), you are a cancer.

> because people are actually 100% subhuman and driven by obsolete instincts and emotions
wasnt sure if that was parody..game me a good laugh.

>nobody wanted to work there because it wasn't theirs
implying the farm workers before the revolution owned their farms, good one. Why even have a workers revolution if the workers you are talking about already owned the farms in the first place. This argument is contradictory.

>Pol Pot,
backed by the USA, was literally insane and wanted to go back to primitive communism. Where the majority of the workers were the bourgeois who didn't know how to farm and were forced to. Many bourgeois had Chinese or Vietnamese ancestry so Pol Pot psuhed for genocide, even killing the Chinese or Vietnamese "Communist" Party officials. This killed ~25% of the population in Cambodia

REEEEEEEEead a fucking book dude

Thats what sage is for

>therefore it was not capitalist
youtube.com/watch?v=06-XcAiswY4
"They destroyed socialism within weeks"

Marx outlines what a communist government looks like, what it means, what it doesnt mean...The only people that use "HURR UTOPIA" are people who are anti-communist

>Chomsky
Oh man
Have you even read Marx?
He didn't outline what a Communist government looks like, he outlined the natural cycles of revolutions between capitalism and socialism and how the only conclusion is communism. It's more about what causes communism, not how it works.

And the USSR totally proves Marx right. The people will reject their capitalist oppressors and revolt, creating a socialist state. Eventually democracy made its way into this state (as Marx predicted) and capitalism slowly replaced socialism (as Marx predicted)
The Manifesto was not a constitution, or even a guide on how communism should operate. It was just a Manifesto. It was his thoughts and observations on the cycles of history and his interpretation of those cycles

Maybe you should actually study communism before you start supporting it.

yes I called that meme a meme and you flipped, I showed how it was an ideological meme, thats how its related. I dont give a shit about Rothschild conspiracies. If theres an invisible jew lizard pulling all the strings Im not going to go and try to find it, Im going to combat the visible exploitation and disparity of quality of life around the world

Marx argued that capitalism will be replaced by socialism will he replaced by communism, right?

Ussr didnt exactly prove that one out

No, he said capitalism will be replaced through a socialist revolution, and democracy will infiltrate the socialist state until capitalism takes over again.
He said that the cycle will keep repeating until democracy and capitalism are erased from existence, leading to a classless stateless society.

The Manifesto wasn't a guide on how to set up communism. It was a prediction of the natural conclusion of human nature. It wasn't a set of steps, it was an observation of a cycle.
The USSR is proof of this cycle. As is every other socialist state.

My nigga.....Marx literally makes a list of what a communist country would have at the end of Chp 2.

>Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

Again, thats not what happened in the USSR. Watch the Chomsky video if you care to learn anything. Or listen to Lenin himself:

"State capitalism would be a step forward as compared with the present state of affairs in our Soviet Republic. If in approximately six months’ time state capitalism became established in our Republic, this would be a great success and a sure guarantee that within a year socialism will have gained a permanently firm hold and will have become invincible in this country."

Like history shows, socialism never happened. Workers had no rights, unions were destroyed, exploitation remained, in the USSR, thats not communism

>literally
Fuck off reddit.

I never said the USSR was socialist, just that the USSR was an example of the Hegelian dialect used by Marx in the Communist manifesto.
They were a capitalist country which had workers revolt creating a socialist state which, over time, become more and more democratic up to the point that socialism was replaced with capitalism.
Thats exactly what Marx said would happen. He said communism couldn't occur where there were class divides, and so class divides would end up causing socialism to revert back to capitalism via democracy.

Communism was the synthesis of his dialect. We're talking about his thesis and antithesis

Sorry, I meant to say "I never said the USSR was Communist"
I definitely said they were socialist, and that's because the means of production were publicly owned (which is the definition of socialism)
Just because the average Soviet citizen had no say in the market, the market structure was still socialist.

Whereas European countries that everyone says are socialist actually aren't. The closest to socialism is Norway, and that's just because their government has a large stake in the natural resources industry in order to use those dividends on the population. The means of production are still privately owned, which is capitalism

communism is pure evil, the ideology of failure and terrorists... just about ANYTHING is better. Hordes of Russian and pole neo-nazis exist... let that sink in for a moment. Both of these peoples felt the brunt of hitlers savagery and yet they would rather bed down with him than a red!

>Using "literally" to describe and present the literature that is in question.
I literally don't know if you could use the word by its definition more so than here.

Sorry your dad would say "literally" over and over when he cucked you with ur sister, but here in the real world where there are no safe spaces, people who know the definitions of words and their appropriate use can in fact use them appropriately.

>fucking supporting comunism
>on the fucking year of 2016
fuck off chairo, you are even more retarded than the ones that support anarcho capitalism

>We must abolish the elite upper class!
>So let's hush the rich away from our country so that they can use their money that is safe in their swiss banks in another countrz and lets create a completely new elite, the elite of the state control, police and governors!
>communism

Basically, those aren't steps to take in order to enact communism. Those are merely the prerequisites which apply to a Communist society. How these things are achieved is up for debate, as most think revolution is necessary. One thing is for sure though, communism cannot be created democratically.

I think the commie got BTFO.
It's funny how capitalists understand Marx better than Communists

>they were socialist, and that's because the means of production were publicly owned
> the average Soviet citizen had no say in the market

You literally contradict yourself, unless you dont know the definition of "public"... Socialism does NOT mean government owns the means of production. It means public...if the government represents the people then that may be construed as socialist...but we are talking about the USSR, which was authoritarian, heavily bureaucratic and corrupt, resulting in "the average Soviet citizen had no say." Even if the USA government today seized the means of production, it wouldn't be a socialist, that how bad democracy is in the US, not to mention 1918 Russia.

inb4 USA has democracy
>Princeton Study concluding the US is an oligarchy

The government is a public entity. Regardless of how the government is determined or operated, it is a public entity.
And why would you think the average citizen would have any say in the means of production? You think its not socialism unless everyone has a say in how things operate?
Socialism is a collective force, and collective forces oppress the individual. Therefore, socialism oppresses the individual. Just because individuals were oppressed in the soviet union doesn't mean it it wasn't socialist. Everyone owned the means of production. That's what socialism is. Just because you own part of something doesn't mean you can control it.

The US isn't a democracy, it never was. It's a representative democracy. Democracy is inherently oppressive by nature, so it's not unreasonable to suspect that representative democracies will also be oppressive.

You're thinking too idealistically.

It's not even that he's being too idealistic, it's that he's arguing semantics in order to create a false narrative.

I'm saying in the sense that Communism is even possible. It always leads to someone being charge, which makes it uncommunist.

He´s right, ever since we Swedes started embracing Marxism and deepened our socialism, things have been g-great ᵃᶫᶫᵃʰ ᶦᶰˢʰᵃᶫᶫᵃʰ

You facist bigots could all learn something from this man ᵃᶫᶫᵃʰ ᵃᵘᵏᵇᵃʳ

>I literally don't know
Obviously
You use literally instead of absolutely. Go back to liberal retard land. Maybe you'll get enough upboats with that many retarded literally's

>It always leads to someone being charge, which makes it uncommunist.
That was kind of Marx's point...
It's only communism once there's a stateless classless society. Otherwise socialism would become capitalism, and eventually people will get sick of capitalism and try socialism again. It's a cycle, and he thought the only way to break it was communism

So when has there been a successful communist nation?

>the number one cause of death is poverty
>so I have the right to kill people because they have more possessions than me and force them into a society where their money is forcibly redistributed
>we did it because they're greedy!

go back and read your posts, I have countered ever point youve made, most which were false. Here's the breakdown..pay attention...

>Have you even read Marx? He didn't outline what a Communist government looks like
I proceed to directly quote Marx, and his 10 point outline.

>and revolt, creating a socialist state. Eventually democracy made its way into this state
I proceed to directly quote Lenin(the one who lead the revolution in 1917) admitting his was "state CAPITALISM" The socialism you talk about was ousted IMMEDIATELY, and the USSR was never socialist/communist ever again.

>They were a capitalist country which had workers revolt creating a socialist state which, over time, become more and more democratic up to the point that socialism was replaced with capitalism
This is a fairy tale, contradicted by Lenin in his own words (that I posted)

In Marx's own words, Socialism and Communism are interchangeable, they mean the same fucking thing.

>Just because you own part of something doesn't mean you can control it.
This is so fucking stupid, ownership sure ass hell doesn't mean that I can exploit myself...Okay yeah 1 person shouldn't control just because he "owns" 0.000001%....how about if more than half the population owns it? does that majority population have a say in how things operate? in your own words " the average Soviet citizen had no say" so who has the say? the public who own it right? According to you, its the government, which you ignore was totalitarian, authoritarian, heavily bureaucratic, and corrupt.

Are you going to go on the record and say a totalitarian government is a public entity? You cant exploit the population that "owns" the means of production. But that is exactly what happened in history, because the population did not own shit. Read and comprehend my arguments, cause I just shit on every single one with facts.

Thats BTFO cuck
Facts, got any? Logic, can you try to use it without contradicting urself?

Historical materialism is an unfalsifiable speudoscience.

This is one reason for why no economist takes marxist theory seriously.

>so I have the right to kill people because they have more possessions than me and force them into a society where their money is forcibly redistributed
who the fuck said that?
I used his logic against him and made him admit to thinking owning land, murder, and exploitation is human nature.

That's what capitalists want you to go to war with that thinking. Because every imperialist has the ideology "I have the right to kill people because they have more possessions than me and force them into a society..." You steal the lands from the natives, then you exploit them and the other minority groups for slave-wages.

Yeah, Communism doesn't fucking work.

>t-that wasn't real gommunism!
Anyone who says that Lenin and his party, who bet their lives on the revolution, did not dedicate themselves to Marx's teachings is damage controlling. "Real" Communism can never exist because it is idealistic nonsense based on false principles.

An example of this is the abolishment of currency. Marx, being the moron that he was, naively saw money as the only form of transferrable value in existence, ignoring the obvious historical fact that humans had been trading goods and services both without a state and without branded metal coins for thousands of years. The very idea that eliminating the money supply would stop free market transactions between individuals is so beyond retarded that if any nation had truly implemented it, the state would be dissolved easily within days.

The "means of production" is another borderline autistic idea that has no basis in reality. So what if the state seizes the factories? They were not created in nature, they were created by men. If I draw a picture, you stealing it from me does not hinder my ability to draw another one. What Marx was truly (probably unkowingly) saying was "Stop things from being produced." Which would be the equivalent of stealing all of the paper in the previous scenario, even if you, the state, hasn't got the ability to qualitatively replicate my products. Anyone with even an ounce of foresight could have predicted that attempted Communism would lead to mass starvation under these given economic terms.

Natural selection. The weak will always be ruled and dominated by the strong. That's just human nature.

>MY FORM OF GLOBALISM IS BETTER THAN YOUR FORM OF GLOBALISM

>COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED YET "CAPITALISM" HAS BEEN TRIED AND IT FAILED

>WE ARE ENTITLED TO USE ANY TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS THAT CAPITAL PRODUCES IF WE USE IT AGAINST THEM!, WE ARE NOT PRIMITIVIST!" (says the sjw using a phone made by chinese slaves)

>IM HERE TO FREE YOU FROM THOSE "OPRESSION" FORMS SUCH AS FAMILY, SEX, ROLES, GENDERS, IDENTITY, RELIGION, ETC. ( here is your number! welcome to our communist paradise worker 33385764 ! )

>ALIENATE YOU FROM PRIMITIVEE SOCIAL-JURIDIC GUIDELINES LIKE HONOR AND MORALITY! ( But you should totally follow our positivist code that guarantee you happyness and pourpose! )

nice bait thread btw

>Lets ignore the economists that are doing it to be rich...xD good one

Cause you are in need of a lecture on economics: here is Richard D. Wolff

Education: Stanford University, Yale University, Harvard College, Harvard University....idk a pretty smart guy

youtu.be/uF0Jazz0DN0?t=10m25s

He goes into economics of today, real world events..

Communism is a luxury of the rich to discuss. Why don't you try talking to the working class you're constantly trying to use as an instrument for your pathological altruism? You know, the hillbilly rednecks, poor minorities and so on. They don't give a shit about communism. They're often Christian, work hard, and care alot about family. They detest you sheltered pieces of shit, preaching the wonders of Marx from your ivory towers of academia.

Seriously stop using us as a means to an end you piece of shit

woah

communism must realy be great afterall !

can you cite one communist country that we should mirror were no workers were exploited and was prosperous

i mean it is so obvious, easy to implant and related to human behaviour it must have been a thousand counties that went well it that

i really want to tell my friends about it maybe they will see how communism is great too

>imperialism where government-enabled monopolies leverage force to engage in dubiously voluntary contracts is the fault of free market capitalism as an ideology

Yet I bet you're one of those faggots who claims any self-declared communist who siezes the means of production and starts annexing neighboring countries but doesn't follow your special snowflake brand of communism isn't a real communist

Sorry, capitalism and imperialism has killed more. Not even counting the people that die from hunger, and other preventable/curable diseases on a daily basis.

I'm guessing this image is too low quality to be read because the material within is retarded..

>it's an anything bad that happens in the world when capitalism exists somewhere is capitalism's fault episode
>nobody starved or died of preventable disease in communist country's
>the Holodomor was just a myth comrade!

my bad heres your death toll

>communism has never been tried
l m a o

Real capitalism has never been tried. We have so many regulations that create the image in your OP.

Capitalism AND imperialism...

You could just say imperialism and you might have some truth...

I've heard the argument that you can attribute X-amount of deaths to capitalism.. the rationale is always that capitalism failed to feed, clothe, house, whatever, allowing these people to die of natural causes...

The ole, "your boss is threatening you with starvation" argument... As if capitalism or any economic principle is responsible for biological needs...

Imperialism isn't an economic principle, so you're pretty fucking stupid.

Oh look, some faggot commie thinks he can have an argument against straw men.

This was probably originally a kikebook post so you could virtue signal, right?

>Extermination of the indigenous Americans 1492-1890: 100 million
And I already know your image is full of shit without reading any further, fuck off commie.

Read 5 of them and none of them have a thing to do with economics... So.... Yeah I'm not going to read the rest of it because it's already a retarded waste of time.

Still not i can give you the page and everything about bakuins take on rothschild and marx. Jew lizard? What nonsense?! You make up shit and pull strawmens, all the time, learn to discuss.

REEEEEal Capitalism

Is anti-Semitism really illegal in Germany?

I started talking with a German-born American the other day about Hitler maybe being a scapegoat of some sort and literally physically retreated... Straight up ran away.

Hey retard, you forgot many classes in your "infographic."

For instance, the merchant class in feudal societies. Knights weren't just peasants in armor, either, they were warriors trained from a young age who generally had high social standing and property/wealth of their own. Then there is skilled labor, such as blacksmithing, rope-making, sail-making, etc etc. Artisanal crafting.

In capitalist societies, there are people who work many varied jobs who make varied wages. Minimum wage isn't supposed to fulfill your cost of living in highly-populous areas, it is a stepping stone for young workers. However in most of the USA, minimum wage does fulfill your cost of living and then some. In many places in the country you can rent an apartment for $400/month. Food for $200. Utilities in some places are included in the rent for $400/month, but even if they aren't, max $200 utilities. After taxes working full time min wage you'd have $1000/month, so at this point you still have $200 left over. In some places in the country, you can live for as little as $600/month total. For instance, in Wichita the MEDIAN price for a 2-bed apt is $650, meaning you can easily find an apt for $600 or less with a roommate. Now you spend $300 on rent, and your cost of living is down to $500/month. So now you can either save $500/month or spend it on fun shit, all while making min wage.

He is a known communist agitator, who could take him serious?

You have to know how to word, what you want to say, if you are not rhetoricaly sophisticated, not equipped with some knowledge of history and law, it can be better to keep quiet.

If you cannot put 2 and 2 together with Capitalism and Imperialism, you are a lost cause, and everyone that has ever loved you has failed.

When was a war ever fought without economic interest? PLease..thats war, you take over a land as an economic interest.

The biggest War of all time started because a country wanted to take over land as an economic interest. Then Britain was like, no Hitler, you cant be like us with India and Africa... Then Japan was trying to conquest more land for guest what? ECONOMIC INTERESTS, then the US was like, no no no Japan, We are the country founded off killing the indigenous peoples for the property rights of our whole country, If anyone gets those countries, its going to be US!!!!

War is economics, what the fuck else do you think sends countries to war? We went to war with Germany cause they had anti-jew laws? NO MOTHERFUCKER, our laws for blacks were the same damn thing.

If you dont see that easy truth you are a quacky cuck

The world is all or at least mostly about individual and group interest. And seem to believe, it to be a Zero sum game, which it clearly isn't. There is no "Proletariaiat of the world" or "bourgeosi of the world" and everyone who things otherwise just fools himself. Wars are about space, ressources, stragic points/assumtions and not only about getting some Labor froce.

Just form your cooperatives and fuck off

Sure dude give me the Rothschild thing, Ill actually read it while trying to comprehend it as unbiasedly as I can.
Also I have rhetorically slammed everyone that has argued with me with few exceptions. None of you even try to pick up my argument. Those talking points have been countered already. Notice how after I counter ideologies with facts and logic (90% of the time using their own logic against them)....the argument stops, and new arguments are brought up (rinse repeat)

I guess you are the last one so maybe ill see what this Rothschild "conspiracy" is you got going for you.

>The world is all or at least mostly about individual and group interest.
you got that logic down. What other interest can you have? if its one person its an individual interest. More than one person's interest its a group interest.

Like I said how I use peoples logic against them, ill give you another example.
>Wars are about space, ressources, stragic points/assumtions and not only about getting some Labor froce.
I never said "only about getting labor force," I said "only about economic interests."
You prove me right when you "expand" on what war is for in your own words..."Wars are about space, ressources, stragic points/assumtions"

Lemme break it down----

Space: Land -this is an economic interest, because land is valuable, so valuable you send poor people to kill other poor people

"ressources": You mean natural resources? The things that come out of the land? See: Space

"Stragic points/assumtions": You mean like land that's closeby to some other land you hope to conquest in the future by perpetuating global imperialism? See:Space

as you can see, all there of your other reasons to go to war....are...like I said....economic interests

Give urself a pat you did just about as good as anyone on this thread, dont feel too down on urself, it coulda been worse.

Himself a Jew, Marx has around him, in London and France, but especially in Germany, a multitude of more or less clever, intriguing, mobile, speculating Jews, such as Jews are every where: commercial or banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades, with one foot in the bank, the other in the socialist movement, and with their behinds sitting on the German daily press — they have taken possession of all the newspapers — and you can imagine what kind of sickening literature they produce. Now, this entire Jewish world, which forms a single profiteering sect, a people of blooksuckers, a single gluttonnous parasite, closely and intimately united not only across national borders but across all differences of political opinion — this Jewish world today stands for the most part at the disposal of Marx and at the same time at the disposal of Rothschild. I am certain that Rothschild for his part greatly values the merits of Marx, and that Marx for his part feels instinctive attraction and great respect for Rothschild.
This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail ....”

Source: Michael Bakunin, 1871, Personliche Beziehungen zu Marx. In: Gesammelte Werke. Band 3. Berlin 1924. P. 204-216.

No it proves my Point since behind them all are ultimatly genetic interestes.

OP is the fat Jew of the camp because he sucks all the guards cocks

>genetic interestes
Thats some serious naive bullshit. If that were true the US would be all over Africa..except thats never happened cause Europe already has their natural resources, i.e. the are no more economic interests left.

I already broke down WW2 so a 4 yo could understand.... Every example is economic in truth but of course dressed up as a genetic. Vietnam? The majority of the Viet people wanted communism, yet the US propagandized the war as the battle of democracy. Thus undermining actual democracy? Establishing a puppet leader in vietnam with rigged elections, and then having CIA assassinate the leaders when they didnt carry out US doctrine. Thats genetic?
Thats delusional, you need some medicine bro, here take some history youll be alright...

>centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation
Central state bank? Do you know what the Federal Reserve is, thats actually a thing thats the central state bank that's been in the US since 1913. Look up "The Secret Meeting That Launched the Federal Reserve" Where business leaders, bankers, government leaders (BOURGEOISIE) meet in secret to draft the Central Bank system......If thats not "enormous centralization in the state" idk what is...if your good 'ole proto-Hitler could witness what happened in 1913 he would be so ashamed of himself..

In historical context Bakunin is actually just pedaling anti-semitic horseshit theories just because Marx was a jew. Albeit he did have a hunch on the ruling class setting up central banks, gotta give him that I guess.

"Over the years, events such as the Great Depression in the 1930s and the Great Recession during the 2000s led to the expansion of the roles and responsibilities of the Fed"
TELLING POINT: The worst capitalist crises in the history of the world did not lead to communism, it just went straight to more powerful central banks.

I was under top ten High School history Students in my Year State wide, so i'm pretty Decent.

Look at who the many of the rich people are, you will see a pattern Trust me and no they aren't lizards. Ever heared of Game theory, all Simulations Show, those who pratice ethinc nepotism against those who don't win.

Vietnam was mainly due to the believe in the Domino Stone theory, which later proofed was proofed wrong. But there is are genetic componets and perspectives but i'm not starting To unpack them here since this would be stuff for three or Four ours.

>This entire thread is still going.

This cuck hasn't killed herself yet?