Who shot down the MH17, Cred Forums? The Russians or the Ukrainians?

Initial report basically said it was the Russians.

It was a ground based missile fired by separatists of a design that Ukraine didn't own and of a high level of sophistication that no civilian could be expected to operate.

Conclusion: Russian military owned and operated.

Note that the altitude they were at means no hand held launcher would have worked. It's a sophisticated SAM-site that can track and shoot that high.

Russians almost certainly thought it was a military cargo plane.

It's crazy how much stuff can be found by just looking at open source information.

They are basically doing what /sg/ has been doing.

>Join their team
no they are a bunch of SJWs but they provide a service and some really good information.

>you can independtly verify their investigations yourself

you actually can, I've tried it. Even when RT can't disprove it

You wold be surprised how many war zones airliners fly over. Also, no one thought the Russians would be retarded enough do it..

Ukraine is BTFOing Pro Russian seperatists and Russian SF on the gorund--> Russia sends over MANPADs and a SA-6--> Ukr. Air force gets decimated--> Vodka niggers shoot at anything in the sky--> MH-17 Get shot down by Russian supplied and maned missile--> Russia denies everything

I dont know who did it, both ukraine and russia dont want to give radar images, only russia recently said they will show them, but until now nobody released those images

i have flown over syria
>was sweating the whole time we were over isis territory tho

People's Republic of Dumbass.
Russians supplied the vehicles, ammo, and training.

Impossible, we found the body in Alpine wreckage.

Pretty much this.

Russian soldiers volunteering for Ukrainian separatists, using a BUK the Russian government gave them.

It was an accident.

>shouldn't of been flying over an active war zone

Which would be fair if the passengers were told in advance what the route would be.

what's holding up the investigation?

some dumb seperatist shit with a anti-air vehicle supplied by the russians

good intel saves lives folks.

>Who shot down the MH17

niggers and jews

I'm sure there are a lot of googles in Ukraine

Jews, it looks like putins plane or something. I forgot the details.

Bellingcat is a US shill organization. They're as ""impartial"" as the UN or big NGOs like Amnesty or HRW. They selectively ignore facts and spin anything in the direction of the US-approved narrative.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious the pro-Russian rebels did it. Ukraine doesn't have clean hands though. They and their backers are extremely reluctant to provide proof of the incident. Ukraine literally made up a bunch of shit about every radar in the country being inoperable.

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Is it just a (((coincidence))) that MH17 was a Boeing 777 of the exact same type and the very same airline as the 777 of flight MH370 that went missing over the Indian Ocean only 4 months earlier?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

Both, and neither

>Volunteering
It was much bigger than that. It was entire units. I'm sure if people wanted to opt out they provably could.

Just due to the nature and complexity of the systems I would highly doubt the Russians would let any one but active duty Russian soldiers to use those weapons.

For instance.
The Russians use the BUK, T-90As, T-72B3s, Jammers, radars and all of the other things that ended up in Eastern Ukraine that have never been used by the Ukranian military.

The Separatists and Russian civilian volenteers get the old Russian T-64s, T-64BVs, T-72B1s, Grad Systems and all the other things that Russia could use plausible deniability to say that they just got it from over run Ukrainian convoys.

The Russians and the fact that the people doing the investigation want it to be as accurate as possible so the RIDF can't try to deny it. Also, the same reason why the US and NATO aren't putting that much effort into calling Russia out. They dont want to politically back them into a corner where they become desperate. They still want Russia to pull out of the Donbas and want to give them the option to do it secretly. If they just blow them out of the water by dropping the cards on the table Russia will never leave and might double down.

The fucked up part is that the US didn't share any of its intel with the Ukrainians in the beginning of the war. Especially, regarding satellite images of the Russian building up and crossing the border. The Ukrainian's ran into a death trap of Russian armor and arty kill boxes. The whole thing could be been avoided at least for the Uks. if Obama hadn't been a pussy

Of all Russian theories this is the most retarded.

Oh yea if any one wants proffs I got it. I've been studying this conflict for years. Feel free to ask away or debate me.

>literally destroyed the economy of a State

Geogre Soros

>They dont want to politically back them into a corner where they become desperate
You talk as though you (the USA and NATO) have the upper-hand. You don't. All that went out the window in 2008 with Georgia. Putin knows he's winning this "battle".

>They and their backers are extremely reluctant to provide proof of the incident. Ukraine literally made up a bunch of shit about every radar in the country being inoperable.

Got a non Russian source on that?

>Bellingcat is a US shill organization. They're as ""impartial"" as the UN or big NGOs like Amnesty or HRW

Like I said they are a bunch of SJWs but they are not wrong. I've been following them and their critics for a while and I can't find anything holes.

If you found any legitimate ones show us.

You underestimate how fucked the Russian economy currently is. Russia pumping money into it's military will just hurt them more in the long run.

>The Russians or the Ukrainians
Why did you say "Russians" twice?

Our own government, who leads the investigation, said so, multiple times. To this day primary radar images have not been provided by any of the parties. Our own government is even reluctant to further the investigation due to pressure from the USA. Connecting the dots here isn't difficult. There is something fishy going on regarding Ukraine's involvement.

Also, there are no legitmate investigations into the matter. You have propaganda from the US/Ukraine side and propaganda from the Russian side. Believing either side is fucking retarded, Bellingcat is not a shred more believable than RT or some other Russian shill group. They both solely exist to drive narratives. You won't find holes in either argument because they only use facts that fit within their narrative. You're just more prone to believe the US version because you're from the US.

He doesn't understand war.

War isn't about how much better tech you have, it's all about logistics and whether you can maintain the war.

Our country could barely afford the Iraq War as it was boiling up to 1 trillion dollars, that was long after the Iraq military was defeated. We take death seriously back at home, we think 3,000 troop deaths is a LOT. I'm not entirely sure how we'll suck it up if we hit over 10,000 in a months time if a war broke out between the US and Russia. That's of course just equating in conventional warfare and not any other forms like nuclear...

...

whats the relation?

>You underestimate how fucked the Russian economy currently is. Russia pumping money into it's military will just hurt them more in the long run.

Here's the thing you don't fully grasp fellow burger, the Russians are a hardy group of people, their entire history is a history of misery. They won't flip out and go into despair if a burger isn't made or if their cellphone can no longer be used. In the US, it's the opposite. We have an entire generation of safe spaced kiddies who are so fragile and we'll react in horror at the slightest thing that occurs.

Who cares? It's war, fucking deal with it.

Who the fuck knows. Everybody involved, whether it is the US, Russia, Ukraine or DNR have been spouting bullshit since the crash, using shopped shit to accuse each other, so it's likely we'll never know. We still don't know what really happened to PA103, because the official investigation is doubtful.

Man, that's the fucked up shit nowadays.

You can't trust MSM

Most of other sources seem to be either pro Russia or pro USA shills

I think there's no way to actually know what's going on in the world today

>To this day primary radar images have not been provided by any of the parties.

Because they are at war and they don't want the enemy to know how good their radar systems are.

The picture is a non-disclosure agreement among the party that investigates MH17. Why?
The MH17 and MH370 were the same type of planes belonging to the same airline (Malaysian airlines Boeing 777 200-ER). My question is whether this is a coincidence?

I hear you. But I think the USA or Nato are underestimating Russia, despite Russias sanctions.

who cares

It may as well be, unless there is any evidence for a link between the two cases other than they being the same model of airplane.

>I hear you. But I think the USA or Nato are underestimating Russia, despite Russias sanctions.

NATO miltiry isn't underestimating it. The US and EU media is trying to downplay it HEAVILY. They all work for the same boss at the end of they through lobbyist pockets ect. Thus, the lessers who watch tv all the time and believe what they hear will just go with what Normie News Network says. My cousin has been in the US Army for 11 years and he takes the Russians seriously.

Undoubtedly it was Vladimir Putin himself.

It probably is. Ukraine jet is confirmed to be 9M-MRD. There's really almost no chances that the company had faked the disappearance of the 9M-MRO and changed its registration to have it crash in Ukraine. What would be the point of that?

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What about all the people saying the US, specially Hillary el al. are pushing for war with Russia? Who is more eager for war, Russia, US, or are they all just playing their cards for public opinion, I.e, using each other for internal politics?

This.

Although he wasn't drunk but given the order by his superior because the radar system cannot distinguish between a civilian and military aircraft.

It was most likely Jews. Later they SHUT DOWN an airplane over Sinai.

oh, yeah, so the jew army went there to blow up the plane m8

The Chinese

pro russian rebels with a russian supplied radar SAM TELAR

(probably buk or SA-8)

it was probably a mistake, i doubt the russkies and friends wanted that shitstorm, and the ukies probably didn't either.

the real question i guess is why they didn't check the radar cross section of the airplane and notice it's 3x bigger than your average fighter, but i suppose either one they didn't know how because they're morons or two they thought it was a cargo plane.

We did it !

Russia has no cards in expansionism or war. To the USA, war is vital. To Russia it's the opposite - peace is vital. It all started in 2006 when they failed to get Lebanon and the SCO began actively undermining the Dollar.

Ukrainians escorted the plane over an area where the Russians had previously shot down a Ukrainian transport.
Russians shot it down.

Ukraine flew above the mh17 on purpose and russians shot it down because it blipped as millitary on radar.

That's why the case has been buried.

My government knows it and russia knows it.

>implying there is no Jew army and weapons in Ukraine

>implying Jews don't monitor every inch in Sinai

>why they didn't check the radar cross section of the airplane and notice it's 3x bigger than your average fighter

There is more than just fighters.
Could be they thought it was a military transport plane, or the Ukrainian president's private jet.

And the BUK radar system is quite shit.

You need the entire battery command be drunk or something to actually shoot something with civilian signature and moving on a flight path as ordered by Ukraine flight control at a height flown by civilian airlines.
If I'm not mistaken there is an Indian and Singaporean airline in front and behind MH17 about 15mins from each other on the same route.

Word.

Says the nation that literally boosts it's own economy and technological edge with Military spending / R&D.

Yeah who could be so stupid as to pass a civilian liner through a war zone.