>In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.[1][2]
Taxation is theft. I did not consent to having part of my income taken away by the state. Prove me wrong, Cred Forums.
Social contract principle. You give up some of your freedom/stuff/time in exchange for goods/service/right to live somewhere. If you don't like it you are free to go live on a boat or some shit.
Charles Foster
Do you consent to using police services to enforce crime? Do you consent to remaining protected by a military from foreign threats? Do you consent to having a fair judicial system?
I got news for you, all of this shit costs money.
Liam Fisher
You can always leave if you feel as though you are being treated unfairly. Nobody is holding you here, user.
Robert Green
...
Benjamin Parker
Go where? There is no piece of land on earth that hasn't been claimed by a state. If I tried living on the woods, I would get shot or arrested by your government instituted mafia.
Chase Wright
Taxes are the price of civilization.
Grow up cuck.
Ethan Wood
Damnit I tried to stop it
Caleb Murphy
I'm happy to steal from you so I can pay for healthcare, roads and education
Jace Reyes
>implying i will ever get daughters
Gavin Gonzalez
Bir Tawil
Kinda debatably claimed by some dad so his daughter could be a princess, but there's no taxation and no proper state, if you don't consent to having your income taken away then that's where you move.
Nicholas Collins
I am not sea-faring individual. I did not evolve to perform transatlantic voyages. I can only live in the Americas.
Isaiah Gonzalez
Denounce your citizenship then fgt.
Alexander Torres
Logically, I haven't consented to any law that exists before I was able to vote because I wasn't able to vote against it.
Jonathan Barnes
Anyone denying taxation is theft has a sub slave fetish. Fucking cucks.
Lincoln Long
If only we had developed some sort of method of travelling via the air so that people like you would no longer be oppressed by both the sea and the state.
Parker Williams
You consent by remaining a citizen once you reach 18 years of age.
Noah Lewis
You agreed to this when you live in this country, an accept all the benefits like police, roads, etc.
Justin Walker
>i did not consent to having part of my income taken away but you literally did by living in America
Blake Smith
So if you're jailed against your will for ten years, you consent to it by being jailed after all those years?
Matthew King
You consent by not killing your captors.
Ryan Russell
what the fuck does that even mean?
Matthew Martinez
I did not consent to being born in this continent. The government has laid claim on all fertile land. How do you expect me to escape this prison?
Owen Hall
I don't understand quite what youre saying but if you choose to remain a citizen at the age of 18, then you consent to the laws of the state.
Jason Harris
I'm a pacifist.
Daniel Collins
In the same way that you pay damages to someone when you breach a business contract, when you breach the state's contract you pay damages to the state in the form of jail time/fines/etc.
Jaxson Rodriguez
That is your problem that you find there is no way out. You can either let yourself die or consent.
Nicholas Reyes
Go live somewhere in the woods where they won't find you
Easton Long
Well then, you sound like someone who could benefit from a social contract that provides you with the security, and freedom to choose to be a practicing pacifist. All we ask is that you pay what we deem a fair share and abide by our laws.
Ryan Reyes
OP, figure out a way to not pay income and property taxes so you don't have to support laquisha's kids. I get payed partially in bitcoin.
Christian Wood
...
Grayson Rodriguez
Being the owner of land is what gives someone the right to set the rules and regulations of it, therefore the state should not impose a 'social contract' on someone who lives in private land. In the case of state-owned land, the state (in most cases) took that land by force from a previous owner, which, really, means they're not the rightful owner of that land.
Liam Flores
Original argument >you consent to theft through taxation by remaining a citizen
My counter-argument >by remaining a prisoner, you consent to having your freedom violated through imprisonment Just because you can't change your unjust circumstances, doesn't mean you consent to them. Therefore the original argument is false
Nathaniel Lopez
>What is Somalia?
Carson Lewis
What decent job pays in bitcoin? Freelancing?
Benjamin Edwards
>Prove me wrong, Cred Forums.
Doesn't matter what you think peasant, you exist only to serve your masters.
A rightful owner is whoever is strong enough to maintain control of it. In the same way the state taxes you for owning renting within its borders, you may charge people who live on your property or they can get the fuck out. You are free leave or try to overthrow the current system.
Landon Jenkins
You are not forced to remain a citizen. You have an option to not be taxed at any moment by renouncing your citizenship.
Carter Kelly
The rightful owner of land is, in my opinion, one who homesteaded that land or had it passed to them by a previous owner. A 'rightful' owner is not one who is powerful enough to maintain control. Why should military force be the deciding factor for an owner of land (I assume that is what you mean by 'strong enough')?
Ethan Perry
You consent by living in the country. If you don't like it you can leave.
Jose Ross
No, no, no.
Colton Russell
Land ownership is human fiction. There is no such thing as "ownership" in the physical world. There are no physical laws that prove that you own something. It is all in people's imaginations.
Your income is taxed whether you're a citizen or not.
Leave where? Every state has the same system. Tell me where a freeman like myself can go live in peace without being harassed by a government mafia.
Blake Robinson
Then leave or kys.
Landon Campbell
>you consent to being shot by being penetrated by the bullet, if you don't like it manipulate space time
Justin Baker
You consented when you decided to live in the US and benefit from roads and services
Ian Robinson
>Land ownership is human fiction. There is no such thing as "ownership" in the physical world. There are no physical laws that prove that you own something. It is all in people's imaginations. >le just read gommunist manifesto
>Leave where? Every state has the same system. Tell me where a freeman like myself can go live in peace without being harassed by a government mafia.
Somalia. Next question
Evan Taylor
Do you drive on roads?
Adam Gutierrez
>Somalia. Next question see
Austin Watson
Yes, I make most of my money with friends to make websites (front and back end) for clients, via online. Mostly locals and it's very informal (hence the bitcoin).
I would earn much more in a professional career in web development, but I don't have a piece of paper that says I got a bachelors degree in CS.
Tyler Gray
Predators control territory and hunting grounds. They decide what lives and what dies on it as long as they are strong enough to enforce it. Land control isn't a human construct. It exists in nature
Jack Thompson
I didn't decide to live here. I was born in this continent.
Jayden Evans
>Land ownership is human fiction. There is no such thing as "ownership" in the physical world. There are no physical laws that prove that you own something. It is all in people's imaginations.
That sounds more anarcho-communist than anarcho-capitalist. What beliefs would you associate yourself with?
Cooper Taylor
americans don't own land either
the government can take it all back the second they want and there is no authority that will cover you against them
the actual tradition of land ownership ended with death of monarchy
Asher Peterson
So you define ownership as control? So if I squat inside a foreclosed home, I own it?
Jose Brooks
You could always watch a bunch of episodes of Bear Grylls drinking piss until your confident in your wilderness survival skills. Just go disappear into the Mountains of Canada. Of course you will eventually cut yourself, get infected, and die with no one ever knowing but hey it's an option.
Landon Reyes
If you can manipulate squatter's rights laws, or can fend it off from authorities, then yes.
Ian Reed
>Land ownership is human fiction. There is no such thing as "ownership" in the physical world. There are no physical laws that prove that you own something. It is all in people's imaginations. Sure. You are free to ignore it and get punished for it. Something doesn't need to be physical for it to exist. Laws aren't physical and yet they exist. Money isn't physical and yet it exists. Etc.
Brody Phillips
You did by being a citizen.
You are free to go somewhere else
Isaiah Turner
Ok. KYS then. Next question
Ethan Bell
I hope all ancaps get executed
Alexander Gomez
I believe in some of the tenets of classical liberalism. The reason I believe it's fiction stems from reading about the evolution of human societies. Read "Sapiens" by Yuval Noah.
Xavier Wright
It's not like one owned land under a monachy. Lords and Barrons were granted land by the King, who could take it back if they deemed necessary. IF anything private ownership of land is stronger now than under monarchies.
Liam Martinez
>filling out a W-4 doesnt count as consenting okay goog
Lucas Turner
>ctrl+f "property is theft" >no results sigh
Daniel Parker
Except you give your consent under threat of violence or incarceration.
Theft is actually ROBBERY, which is the taking a thing of value by means of force or intimidation.
Lrn2thelaw you fucking idiot.
Brayden Nelson
Then move if you're not willing to follow the rule of the land faggot
Liam Gomez
Can people stop running with the social contract meme?
The idea was invented simply to counter the idea that taxation is theft. Social Contract has no basis in reality. How can you have consent, if you never made an agreement? Social Contract Theory, assuming it just isn't a shoddy idea to deflect the idea that taxation is theft, is also theft. Because you are a stealing an individuals right to consent or decline.
"Theft" is a natural occurence. Bacteria "steal" from you daily. Animals define territory, and steal biological resources. The strongest determines how the recourses are allocated, and takes them as it pleases.
Taxation is theft.
Theft is natural.
Theft is good if your strong.
Theft is bad if your weak.
Lucas Walker
All these ultra radical neo-fascists trying to justify taxation makes me angry.
Jordan Bell
might is right, cuck. if you can't take control of resources and successfully defend them, fall in line and pay your taxes.
if you're ancap unironically past the age of 17 you should kys
Daniel Cooper
If you don't sign the W-4, you starve.
Given that there are no other options, a reasonable man is forced to sign the paper in order to avoid death. He still doesn't agree with the theft of his remuneration.
You cannot live off the land. Every inch has been claimed by the state.
>theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.[1][2] It doesn't have to happen under force or intimidation. If I sneak into your house and steal your laptop, it's not considered theft under your narrow definition.
Juan Murphy
I don't remember signing a contract
Ayden Allen
>Cred Forums literally can't defeat my argument I don't care to. I agree with what you said. Carry on
Asher Hall
Property is theft.
Eli Foster
In okay with Social Contract theory bc id rather have "pay me so I can protect you (so you can pay me more) but I'll also build shit you'll use and some of it you might even like. But if you don't you'll go to jail" over "pay me or I kill/forced labor you to death."
Brayden Reyes
AnCap is a retarded ideology but makes for funny memes
Daniel Price
I agree with you. Theft is a fact of human life. It is unavoidable.
He may not agree with the paper but he still consents by signing.
Jose Morris
"Taxation is theft" is a premise that someone is going to either believe or not. You may be able to convince some people to believe it, but there will always be others who don't.
Whining about theft is not suddenly going to get rid of taxes. Change doesn't occur fast like that. It mostly occurs slowly and incrementally (see the past century of progressivism/statism slowly taking over more parts of your life for reference).There will always be people who want to take your stuff. The ancap ideal does not exist and never will exist because people like this exist. Right now, many things you believe to be your rights, you do not have. The state has already taken them. If you want to change something, start by not forfeiting any of the rights you still have and take anything small victory you can get. Educate those around you about your ideals. You may convert some. Others will ignore you. Best of luck to you OP.
I claim that the stuff you call "your property" is actually my property. Prove me wrong objectively. Protip: you can't.
What will you do to prove me wrong? You will appeal to the state, which will defend your claim that the stuff I want is actually your property.
Property is only well-defined beyond "what you can defend with force" by the existence of the state. The state has a monopoly on legitimate violent coercive force; therefore only the state can effectively defend any claim to property; therefore any claim the state makes regarding property is by definition true.
Taxation is entirely legitimate because the state has the power to take what you consider """your"""property, and the power to take and defend one's claim is fundamentally the only natural law of property.
Get absolutely BTFO
Logan Myers
You can claim whatever you want. It doesn't make it a fact. My property is still here. You haven't taken it. It is my property even if you were to take it. I would kill you with my shotgun if you attempted to steal my property. No state is necessary to complete this transaction.
Austin Roberts
That's not even a modern concept, though. What are you trying to say?
Julian Adams
>ayncraps I am a warlord in Ancapistan. Instead of the state, I am the one with the most firepower. Give me all your possessions, I don't give a fuck about the NAP.
Mason Jones
Me too.
Jack Ortiz
^ cuck faggot from argentina literally loves paying for other people's kids
Christian Myers
>when you realize that opposition to globalism is literally asking the rich to pay for your kids
Elijah Reed
when you realize you're making shit up again
Logan Evans
It's precisely true though. Third-world immigration is essentially a wealth transfer from native workers to employers with a small amount going to immigrant workers. When native workers use state power to prevent immigration to secure higher wages and protect themselves from competition, the wage differential between the two groups that is taken from the rich and given to the native worker is essentially a welfare payment.
It is money being transferred from a wealthier person to a poor person to keep them in line and prevent them from revolting.
Hudson Clark
underrated
Christopher Cooper
> Denounce Not sure if satire. Word is "renounce".
Landon Long
I'm perfectly happy with wingnuts calling it theft but still taking their money to pay for stuff. Call it whatever you want, just pay.
Jose Evans
that they are both comparable, but you think one is justified and one isn't
Joseph Green
>state is better at warfare, therefore it is a better system
Viper, my man
Xavier Sanders
>you signed the social contract the day you were born in the hospital that happens to be on our land goyim
Aaron Jenkins
Damn you
Brandon Hernandez
"Anarcho"-capitalism is a non-starter. Whoever has the most firepower will be the one enforcing the NAP, after they seize as much property as they can and declare it theirs. Anarcho-capitalism will quickly reproduce the functions of, and become equivalent to, the state with capitalism.
Lincoln Powell
you hecking piece of crud
Ryder Russell
...
Connor Robinson
Sheeeeeit
Tyler Williams
I literally do not and use a private security company who get here quicker and won't arrest me for calling a burglar a paki or whatever, but I still have to pay for the regular useless police.