Deutsche Bank

Ur gay lol

stfu faget, i will dox u

Cross post from biz

This is just a symptom of the bigger underlying issue.

The west has been consuming more than it is consuming, relying upon debt to make up the difference.

Central banks are now issuing credit for free and with negative interest rates, some entities are now effectively paid to take credit. There are non-financial companies that make more money handling this debt than making their product as it does not require R&D, a large amount of employees (with the pension risk), etc. This capital SHOULD be used to stimulate the economy but it is instead being taken out and is increasing asset values.

Take pensions for example. The assumptions used were often based on 6% returns (I am seriously belittling the pension industry here but bear with me). Now that these sorts of returns are unobtainable when many billions are involved they are effectively a pyramid scheme. They require an increasing level of people contributing just to make up for their upcoming or current liabilities.

In short, something will have to give and many people are waiting for the first thing.

Governments, via central banks, are printing money and using negative interest rates to try to limit the damage. History shows that this is not likely to hold long term.

Eventually confidence (the real currency used at the moment) will disappear in something and cause everyone to jump ship. For example, if a sizeable portion of the European upper middle class start holding dollars and pounds instead of Euros.

Boom!

Who the fuck cares it came from biz you beady eyed motherfucker.

This is the biggest actual happening of the decade (well, since 2008) and nobody on Cred Forums gives a shit.

I guess we really are a bunch of inbred white supremacists too dumb to understand basic economics.

too many bots nowadays
elul 29

enlighten me.
how is this any different from the whole european banking sector being in trouble due to low interest rates?

> its shares rose today.

Because of a 1b windfall by amputating one of their few profitable assets. This is a short term strategy.

>The west has been consuming more than it is consuming
What did he mean by this?

Because Germany can't let DB fail. They just can't because of what the domestic fallout would be.
However, bailing it out might well cause a bail out spread across the Eurozone, pumping debt through the ceiling and possibly killing the Euro.

You must be joking. There has been thread after thread about this, it's fucking constant

>central banks dont buy shares in private banks, dummy
You're right, the ECB does it instead

all they need is up to $10 bln.
this is 1/30 of a German government budget, less than we intend to spend on refugees.

the ECB is the European Central Bank, dummy

take it easy and write your sentences proper, couldn't understand a thing.

Because if Germany gives 10b to DB, Greece, Italy etc will start doing the same. And if you think this fine is the only problem facing DB then you're head is in the sand.
The only reason the fine is significant is because DB can't afford to pay it, highlighting very serious structural problems.

welcome to Cred Forums we've got several Deutsche Bank collapse threads everyday. Feel free to join!

they'll probably look for money from the ECB not the german govt.

that will cause a shitshow across europe because other states will want to know why germoney gets a bailout.

if they ask for a bailout from the german govt then essentially the american govt has extorted $10bn from germany. because the loans will never be paid off.

this is economic warfare.

It should have been:
>The west has been consuming more than it is producing

Dont worry, this will blow over in 3 weeks.

Italy and Greece/ PIGS are already "helping" their banks. Why shouldnt Germany do it too?

Also: Italy and Greece are on the recieving end; they shouldnt complain. anymore after all the help.

>highlighting very serious structural problems.
they had them for years.
what started this ruckus was a $6-15 bln fee, coupled with a low capital ceiling of only $2.5 bln.

good, death to EU and death to bankers
They truly are scum of this earth

>this is economic warfare.
i guess this is the payback for kicking apple & ireland in the dick.

Because in exchange for help they had to implement austerity to the bone. 50% youth unemployment etc. in exchange for those handouts.
If Germany just bails out DB from their own accounts, then Greece, Italy and the rest of southern Europe will start asking why they couldn't do the same thing on credit.

They'd be right to ask that, as it demonstrates one rule for them, and another rule for Germany. Why do you think DB and the German gov are so desperate to cinvince people that there will be no bail out? Even though we all know that there probably will be if things get any worse.

>However, bailing it out might well cause a bail out spread across the Eurozone

No, it would cause such a humongous political shitstorm in the EU that German politicians might consider it worthless to try and save DB. They don't want their union falling apart more than they don't want DB to fail.

>what started this ruckus was a $6-15 bln fee, coupled with a low capital ceiling of only $2.5 bln.
A bank of this size should have no problem paying this fine. And you're right these problems have been there for years and getting gradually worse. This might just be the final nail in DB's coffin as the markets realise how desperate DB have gotten.

>They don't want their union falling apart more than they don't want DB to fail.
Possibly, but do you think the Germans would tolerate the risk to their pensions and savings like that? Merkel would be gone next year without a doubt.

>in exchange for those handouts
what "handouts" are even meant?
the government debt of the austerity states continued to rise, whilst that of germany has actually fallen since 2008.
from what I can tell, if anything, spanish and irish money was used to bail out german and french banks.

They don't get down
Yesterday a secret bail-out happened

EU tax money goes right now in the Deutsche Bank, but they will announce it with good luck in a few days

>from what I can tell, if anything, spanish and irish money was used to bail out german and french banks.
Yes it was. I didn't mean handouts as a pejorative, just that aid to their banks was dependent upon austerity packages.

Any source on this, user?

Hence they were on the recieving end all these years.

Fuck em really.
They van PIGSexit for all I care. Just fuck off with them.

A northern union will have much more chance of being succesful.
So i really dont care about Italy's and Geece's butthurt.

>Possibly, but do you think the Germans would tolerate the risk to their pensions and savings like that? Merkel would be gone next year without a doubt.
Their pensions are at the end of the day tied to the continued existence of EU and Eurozone. Germany's whole export-heavy economy relies on the union's continued existence. However, DB's fail might actually cause the unraveling of the union and Eurozone even if they don't bail it out. PIIGS would be politically happy out of spite, but what does it matter when Euro experiences a hyper inflation event and exports dry up?

I wonder why these conditions were even accepted by Spain, Ireland, Portugal.
"you get to bail out foreign banks, but have to accept brutal austerity measures in return"?
what kind of deal is that?

You can believe it or not, its my word
I heard it via mouth-propaganda at Xetra, because I'm investor, I'm fucking glad they did a bail-out, I would lose so much money

>I heard it via mouth-propaganda at Xetra, because I'm investor, I'm fucking glad they did a bail-out, I would lose so much money
So everyone at Xetra acted on insider info? LEL

Don't worry EU, the UK still has your back.

A fair one considering my fucking money went there with promisse it would return with interest.

These fuckers didnt do anything to improve their system.
I have to bleed for that.

Fuck em really fuck em./

>And you're right these problems have been there for years and getting gradually worse.
due to low interest rates. there is not a single large european bank that is not in a bad shape.
so the situation of the DB is not unusual. italian, spanish banks experience the same.
the markets have realized this long ago and acted accordingly, by selling shares. troubled banks have trouble paying fees.
i see nothing that would make this situation exceptional.

>have to bleed for that.
compare your unemployment and government debt with that of the PIGS countries and you will notice who truly is bleeding here.

>Their pensions are at the end of the day tied to the continued existence of EU and Eurozone

Very true.If the Euro fell apart the Germany would be royally fucked, at least until they got their shit together.

I'm just an ignorant user, but I'd suggest just breaking up DB and trying to salvage the profitable parts. It'd hurt, but not as badly as any other solutions on offer.

>"you get to bail out foreign banks, but have to accept brutal austerity measures in return"?

From what I understand it's because Greek banks in particular had no money to give out to their customers. There was literally nothing they could do except accept the deal if they wanted their economy to function at all.

onvista.de/aktien/Deutsche-Bank-Aktie-DE0005140008

Look how much it goes up, where do you think the money comes from? Stocks get bought via tax money, thats how it is right now

And because some stupid investors see it goes up, they believe it goes natural up & invest as well

That would pretty much mark the end of the career for Merkel if the state bails out DB. We might even see some riots in Germany.

Some heads will roll.

>mouth-propaganda
k

should I withdraw all my money?

do so, unless you get a profitable financial service there, DB is a bad bank anyways.

this:
If it gets out that the German gov had done this without telling anyone, and in fact saying that they wouldn't then the German gov will fall probably before the election.

Yes.

Encourage your friends and family to do so as well

How stupid do you have to be though to think it is going up naturally?

I have no knowledge in economics, but even i can see that they are pumping money into DB.

>yurop
>3rd world

pick both la

M8s, thats the thing, it really doesn't matter.
They let Deutsche Bank die, EU will die, Merkel will lose her job. They let Deutsche Bank not die, riots in whole Europe, Merkel will lose her job.

Merkel will never get a new term of office anyway.

It's over

>THE BANK WILL COLLAPSE TODAY IT'S HAPPENING
>Oh it's going up...
>WELL TOMORROW IT'LL DEFINITELY CRASH

This has been going on for weeks. I'm getting sick of this lads

True, but it might mean the difference between a centrist coalition gov and a massive swing to the extremes on both sides. It'll be a massively unpopular move whatever they do, and it should be handled very cautiously.

>tfw this will further inhibit the recreation of an American manufacturing base when Trump is elected
>tfw I'm about to study in Germany and can't wait for a strong dollar
So conflicted..

It's been getting gradually worse. They've been holding on for ages, and will probably hold for a bit longer, it can't go on indefinitely.

It's that Dota 3?

Well, thats what the AfD is for.
The AfD is at the end just a simple proxy by the CDU/CSU, just for damage control. If the government loses, they just switch control to the proxy.

But nobody sees it

>central banks dont buy shares in private banks, dummy
except they do. free money by mouseclick then buy stocks. japs do it too.

Haha we're such dicks. btw wasn't Deutsche Bank the only bank that would still lend Trump money?

Can't you fucking nazis ever stop messing everything up??

It's not fucking tanking anymore. Make a fucking thread when (if) it actually does.

>whole european banking sector being in trouble due to low interest rates

Maybe your shitty banks. Finnish ones are doing fine.

ayy lmao

>We've had a few hours growth off the back of selling one of our only profitable assets at a 800m loss.
Everything is going fine.

you are approaching double-digit unemployment

What was the fine for?

I don't think if DB falls anything big will happen.

After all, it's only other banks will lose, since they are all interconnected.

So, the shareholders will lose some wealth, which is what should happen, they need to go bankrupt.

There's plenty of other banks to take their place on the market.

I don't see why this would cause anything big. Maybe,at most, a recession, but it won't affect the EU much.

And actualy banks are much better prepared for shocks now, DB was one of the two banks that failed the stress tests. If it falls it won't cause as much damage as 8 years ago. Other banks have raised capital levels and have a lot of cash right now.

The fuck you keep doxing ppl?

k..

you have no clue what you are talking about tbqh

Enlighten me.

Why the fuck is it up.

>it's only other banks will lose, since they are all interconnected.

>There's plenty of other banks to take their place on the market.

but they will all lose user

Good, so shareholders of those banks will lose wealth. Private businesses trading paper economy.

The real economy won't be that much affected, since banks aren't lending much to begin with, crediting is weak right now.

In the EU the ECB has imposed negative rates, right? There's basically no incentive to keep money in the banks right now.

Oh also, retail deposits are secured by provisions with the German central bank, I suppose, like in any other European country.

But anyway, if you have a deposit with DB you better move fast and liquidate it.

I reckon it's past the zenith of its rebound. It'll probably start tumbling down from here until (((they))) prop it back up again.

Is this joke of a bank still standing?
Do I have to wait till tomorrow?

On the way down now. Probably open very low tomorrow!

Can't they pay the finE in instalments?