Finland testing universal basic income

Nope.

Either you take all the welfare and divide it equally, then you fuck people who live on welfare, both the ones who leech the system and the few who really need it, either you make every taxpayer pay a $80,000 bill every year, more if there is less taxpayer the next year.

You can not have both. The material wealth represented by money can not pop out of thin air.

Finally the migrants can have enough money to sustain their finnish loli girlfriends

>I think people want jobs, not handouts
In the particular case of the OP, it is: I keep thinking, Väinö, why not both?

They would still live on benefit even if they get a job.

They would be getting less money than they are now under basic income.

>implying that shit will be a success

It's not such a radical idea in Finland, since we already have an extensive welfare system. The ones who want to just leech off of welfare are already fully able to do that.
This just cuts off the bureaucracy in the welfare system, and redirects that money to people who work. As a result, our buying power will increase, and thus food prices etc. might increase, yet welfare leeches don't get any more money than they did previously; this could end up being an extremely shitty deal for welfare leeches.

Every developed country has some form of welfare.

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_de_solidarité_active

> Annual work revenue Single Single with 2 children Couple Couple with 2 children
> 0,00 € 513,88 € 924,99 € 770,82 € 1.079,15 €
> 2.000,00 € 450,55 € 861,66 € 707,49 € 1.015,82 €
> ...
> 25.000,00 € 0,00 € 133,32 € 0,00 € 287,48 €
> 27.000,00 € 0,00 € 69,99 € 0,00 € 224,15 €
> 30.000,00 € 0,00 € 0,00 € 0,00 € 129,15 €

France has the RSA, if you combine it with other benefits and social housing you can get pretty comfy without getting off your fat ass to work.

It hasn't helped us in any way, it is just enabling miscegenation by allowing idiots to thrive and breed at everyone else's expense.

Everything follows the path of least resistance, it you create a system to support people doing nothing, that's exactly what you'll get.

We need less people, not more, as more jobs are lost to automation and technology if we want to maintain a decent standard of living, there is only so much to share.

Socialist European scum.

Also people will have more incentives to work on low paying jobs because their social benefits will not be cut.

This too.
Now in some cases it's not worth taking on short-term/low-hour work because you will lose your benefits and might actually end up LOSING money by working. This will make everyone able to work like 2-3 days a week if that's all that's available.

>Every developed country has some form of welfare.
*with exception of the US, which is still lacking universal health care and a basic social security net.
>there is only so much to share.
the amount of things to share will actually increase due to automatization, production will cost even less.
its just that the revenue will go mostly to capital owners, there will be little demand for employees.

Not enough handouts or not enough jobs?

You just leveled up in the spaghetti skill

Thats who fins fought against in the hyperwar

holy shit is education this bad in USA?

Both.
But yeah, the job market is quite rough right now. Big companies are downsizing/going bankrupt all the time

I hope it works. I wish we had voted for it in the refferendum. Our country is full of greedy old cunts. Cant wait for them to die already.

>implying thats a man
Thats a beautiful Finnish lady you uncultured fuck.

Source?

Considering that the complete abolishment of the welfare system is completely out of question in contemporary Europe, I do actually support it.

>It cuts away all the bureaucracy costs that burn tons of money
>it is impossible to abuse the system because you only get a fixed amount and there is no way to get more
>everyone is getting the same rather than those most undeserving of it getting the most
>removes those cases where taking a job would leave you with hardly any more money than just being unemployed because it is unconditional

As long as it doesn't cost more than the system we currently have, there is no reason against changing to their new model.

*with exception of the US, which is still lacking universal health care and a basic social security net.

Even the US has welfare, food stamps, social housing and services. They also have all sorts of private insurances. They're not as different as people think, we have more in common with them than Somalia or some other shithole.

>its just that the revenue will go mostly to capital owners

Automation reduces production cost but also profits, thus your tax revenue, as it allows businesses to operate on thinner margins at a larger scale.

It won't generate wealth out of nowhere in a world of finite demand. There's only so much smartphones people need and we're already producing them (in China).

Collectivization make sense for some types of services but not for redistributing income.

The UBI doesn't sound like a good idea unless you can sterilize its long term recipients and close the borders.

Considering the UBI they are testing is at the lowest level of welfare, the migrants would definitely receive less than they do now.

>now all piece of shit finnish workers who are like janitors choose to quit
>now refugees have places to work at with their qualifications

Ebin humble servants :Dddddd

>Ayy where dat basic income at?

as you see here, the US spends almost nothing on welfare for the non-elderly as percentage of GDP, three times below the OECD average

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare's_effect_on_poverty

you wont see the masses of (legal) homeless in europe that you see in the US.

well, offtopic anyways.

>Automation reduces production cost but also profits, thus your tax revenue, as it allows businesses to operate on thinner margins at a larger scale.

this is actually a trend to consider, but that would require relentless competition. i do not see anyone able to oppose walmart, amazon, google.

If we ever reach the point where everything is being produced by machines we will need to think of a different system than money anyway.

If every job can be covered by machines, there is nothing the average person could offer in exchange for the products from those machines.

And if you just let all the people who now became useless die off there is no point in having those machines operate anymore because you don't need a whole factory to supply a handful of people.

imdb.com/title/tt0454921/

this is good

it sounds bad but the subhuman welfare bums will actually get less moneys under this than before

youtube.com/watch?v=t6qF5NU-ehU

Are you retarted? UBI wouldnt make low income workers quit it would just encourage them to work.

>Are you retarted?

YES

YES I AM

I swear to god, if I were your leader, I would make a wall of pykes in the borders with the impaled heads of theses vermins on it.

This.

It already pays better to live on welfare than to take a job like cleaning.

>I think people want jobs

And I think people actually want blowjobs.

This. I get rent + 485 every month, which amounts to roughly 1,1k euros for virtually no effort.

I used to work as an assistant school teacher. It was 35 hours of work per week for the exact same amount of money.

To make working 35 hours a week more alluring than being a neet, the salary would have to be at least 2,5k per month.

>If we ever reach the point where everything is being produced by machines we will need to think of a different system than money anyway.

All machines do is increase productivity. Tasks are automated, not jobs. There won't be a world without jobs, just one with less jobs, to keep things running and produce the same output. We'll always needs very smart people but also people to do dumb shit robots can't do easily like cleaning toilets, it's the average middlebrow worker that will get fucked the hardest.

People will need to figure out new ways to create value and earn an income where knowledge, expertise, know-how is not as valuable as it once was. Maybe a negative income tax as a safety net is part of the solution as long as we close borders to keep the poorfags out.

I've miraculously never been unemployed but I always figured that if you are unemployed for a remotely longer period, you will be pushed to slave work with basically neetbux compensation, is this true?

>It has been tried countless times.

True.

>words

Irrelevant. Here's some info on the actual controlled trials. Guess what. They worked.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_pilots#Madhya_Pradesh.2C_India

It's been tried before, to keep the muzzies out. It worked.

Perhaps if you're unlucky. I've been unemployed for over a year and nobody has asked me to do anything. I know people who have been unemployed for nearly a decade without having to do anything.

With the current level of unemployment it's pretty unlikely you will be picked out.

Simple solution here. Borders. Strictly enforced borders. UBI for citizens only. It's beautiful how UBI and nationalism are so complimentary. We should push the UBI line to normies then hit them with the fact it only works with secure borders once they're invested in it.

So what now?
Do we just get comfy and watch as the Finnish economy falls due to 2 thirds of the populace just not fucking working anymore?

Also should I start selling my Euros? or keep them for when the reconstruction begins?

Hahaha
Just fuck my incentives up family

And they said socialism is different from communism.

Who are you going to rob, Finbros?

Tough call desu. It's true that people want jobs but full-time work in an office miles from your home isn't exactly "natural"

I already get full grand monthly for doing nothing, and know that if I dare to get a shitty job I might actually end up with less for a whole lot more time and effort wasted.
So really I don't see how BI nothing but an improvement, considering it's only 500€ and that's really not enough to survive on comfortably but you're allowed to do some work to add to it.
And of course, bloated social welfare system is already a real money sink on bureaucracy side of things, BI would make it more streamlined.

>people
>those animals

Pick one

Watch out lil Brother, your name will be Finland soon

Fuck off.
This is anticonstitutional here and I have the right do defend myself, Estonia and its constitution.

youtube.com/watch?v=RKRvD5i44Ko

time to start practicing, you already know the melody

>Perkele does some super dumb unsustainable shit to speed up the death of the EU

Finland yes

Might as well not have fought the continuation war

>Finland couldn't singlehandedly-destroy USA in a week
TOP KEK EESTI PIG SHIT!!! Oh believe you me, us Finns are ITCHING for a war with Estonia. We will fucking ANNIHILATE your dirty country. There wouldn't be a square meter of Estonian soil that has running water, electricity, or booze that isn't on fire, once our airforce and navy is done bombarding your defenseless country. Then, our army boys (we'd send the mongols and other inferior races first) would swoop in, raping your women, and killing EVERY Estonian pig shit they see. When Finland's done with you, we will have committed acts of genocide. Of course no one is gonna do shit about it

Forgot to change the country. Oh well :^)

Before we implemented bolsa familia in brazil, the poor people in the northeast had to immigrate in droves to the south and southeast urban centers. They usually got jobs in industry and construction and literally helped to build these cities with their hands, but had to live in very poor conditions in favelas due to the outrageous housing prices in these places.

After we implemented bolsa familia, the poor people in northeastern brazil stopped immigrating and decided to stay in their little shithole villages. For a decade this drove extraordinary economic growth in these parts of the country, mostly in commerce and agribusiness, but now that we are in a deep recession they have no jobs, won't move out and are basically surviving day to day on their meager basic income, no prospects.

This worker's party program is considered a success by most, even the government that replaces the impeached president has kept it in place and expanded. The argument is the immigration process made for poor urban development in the south with massive issues on public health. On the other side, these people are still better than they were 15 years ago because these regions got to be integrated in the economy and now they have a safety net of 20USD every month to buy food products in grocery stores. This wasn't their reality back then, if they were hit with a heavy draught, their livestock and their crops would die and they would be left with nothing but cactus to eat, their only option to migrate or starve (which many did, specially childre).

So here's my take: basic income in third world countries, generally a good idea as a safet net. Basic income in first world countries, people will just stay in their shitty countryside villages and will stop working in industry and construction and develop activities like local commerce and regional tourism.

Good point except that industry and construction are on their ass in most of the west.

that's why want to bring dindus in masses so bad, to increase demand for housing and get cheap labour for industry

so they come up with universal income to keep the poor white man far away in the sticks