Spanish Cred Forums
What are the after-effects of the Spanish Civil war and Francoist Spain in the minds of the Spanish?
Are there Republican apologists? Are some of you Republican apologists?
Was the Francoist regime worse than the Republicans? Were they really all that different in terms of human rights abuses?
Let's hear some opinions.
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>H-hurry guys my report is due tomorrow
I know that he banned the basque "language" m8
There's no report, only discussion.
Moreso, I'm particularly interested in hearing Spanish opinions, especially for those who have talked to an older generation about their experiences.
At the same time, he established a constitutional monarchy and stopped Spain from becoming a communist satellite state and tainting Western Europe.
Franco took Spain 40 years back in progress. Republicans stood up a little more for democracy, but other than that I think that both of them would have been equally as shitty.
The regime never changed.
What we have now is the logical evolution of the (same) system.
The republic was a corrupt shiftest since the 19th century. The regime was a shitfest as well.
Franco and other made sure to kill the insurrectionist generals and figureheads that wanted true fairness and a true justice based government.
You have to understand, as a general rule of life, that the elder are not "wise" per se, in the sense that old people can be dumb and ignorant too.
Most survivors to the war are dumb as fuck. Cattle that swallowed the lies of one of the sides. You'll still see dumb, stupid 70 year old drones that support the commie lies, and the same that support the fascist lies.
The only true, neutral events that happened, regardless of oppinion of any of those sides, is that it was bloody sometimes, and that people fought eachother in a brother vs brother and neighbor vs neighbor fashion.
The worst fact you can known about the civil war is that you could have shot and been shot at by your trusty barber or by your childhood friend.
What remains is all braindead fanaticism.
You might also be interested to know that the culture still tries to push forward the meme that "we are all responsible" somehow. This is, the elder always try to induce their sons and grandsons into the conflict.
If your grandad was a republican you're supposed to be a republican of sorts too, if he was with Franco you're supposed to hate republicans.
I personally hate both sides, and hope the conflict ends when they die. However most of the sjw movement in spain, that is as terrible as anywhere else, is widely backed by this "republican" mentality, and the "nationalist" side is hijacked by those who have been instructed by their grandparents to love Franco.
This is beneficial for the system, because then the people are divided forever, and both those discontent with the government and those who like the country are subverted to a point when it's just "republicans" vs "fascists". Its a narrative the government doesnt want to get rid of.
This of course prevents true discontent with the government to ever raise, and true nationalism (patriotism) is also thwarted.
This is what goes on in spain and why I usually say that Spain will never be cucked, because we spaniards are our own cuckolds.
Too long a subject for me to answer properly
>Second Republic
Lots of power struggles between low class masses trying to enter the political spectrum and old ruling establisent trying to maintain their privileges. Shit was messy and ugly, loads of instability. Shots fired and the rope was tensed till it broke. Some necessary improvements were done right, but moslty crowd-pleasing left-wing memes, and when the elites regained power turnt shit as back as possible.
>Francoism
The excessess and moderarions of the ledt were all wiped at once. The main difference in human rights abuse was the ir systematization by the regime.
The policies implemwnted until late 40s had a clear authoritarian statist and fascist character, which in a war-torn Spain, much dependant on trade and poorly industrialized eventually failed.
Technocracy was the best thing to happen in a long time: competent technical-oriented policies oriented to economical growth under a authoritarian regime undid the wrongs from the autarchic period. Then economic growth and international presence and integration of foreigners lead to people demanding the political rights they lacked. The failing and decayingly corrupt elite gave up mid-70s.
Corruption from power and 'clientelismo' are common elements in Spanish politocs since forever
Bump because good threads never go anywhere in this shit board
cock
Tfw you will never see Spain under based Antonio
I'll try to keep it brief since none of you fuckers want to read an essay and I certainly don't feel like writing one:
The civil war is alive and well thanks to our former prime minister, Zapatero, bringing up the subject all over again. Just the other day we had Pablo Iglesias (Spanish Tsipras) quoting some guy killed by the fascists during the civil war. So a shit ton of time has passed but we still like to throw shit around.
The 2nd Republic has been whitewashed to hell and back, to the point that most retarded twenty-year olds honestly believe it was some sort of glorious Arcadia instead of the chaotic commie-loving mess it was (pic related).
Franco was a catholic cuckservative just happy to make the country his backyard and keep shit in check. Was he worse than the republicans? No fucking way. Not because the republicans themselves were somehow worse than a retarded dictator, but because the Republic was shit and leftists and right-wingers would gun down each other on the streets all the time.
With regards to human right abuses (kek, you cuck) the republicans did their good share of horrible shit but they only had 5 years while good ol' Franky had 40. Still, no death camps, no cultural genocide (Catalans and Basques are alive and well, and so is their culture) and no proper fascism.
And that's about it, you illiterate yank. Hope you get an A+ or whatever good boy points you win in homeschooling.
I'm a dumb cunt.
Latin cultures need a strongman; that's why there's never been a successful Latin democracy.
They are overly compassionate which tends towards socialism, while avoiding personal responsibility. This is probably the result of Catholic teachings as well as racial admixture with Arabs and niggers.
Strongmen were around before christianity.
In fact they've been absolutely everywhere over all cultures at all times.
I got this from a Spanish user on Cred Forums
Well at least Franco saved Spain from WW2, because I didn't see any ways how Spain wouldn't be crashed by Germany and then by allies.
Also, spanish-anons is that truth that your Santiago Order still exist?
The worst part about the regime was the lack of freedom and massive ignorance and oppressive climate.
If you're a freedom loving yank you might understand that.
Spain with Franco was shit-tier if you wanted to pursue anything intellectually.
More like Franco sucked the cock of Churchill, which is what really happened.
Orders of all sorts still exist. Are you even doubting that IN THE CURRENT YEAR?
Except true white cultures. Democracy is inherent to northern European cultures. Greece just formalized it and gave it a theory.
Not only Santiago but also Alcántara and several others. Nowadays they're more just an excuse for old farts to get together and suck each other's dicks than a proper knight order. If I remember my shit well, they got separated from the church some centuries ago and now serve the crown (which is still fine because one of the titles of the King of Spain is that of King of Jerusalem).
Don't be a pussy. Francoist Spain was dictatorship-light. The regime was too inefficient for it to be "oppresive". Back in the 60s you couldn't kick a rock without hitting a communist party member, for fuck's sake.
>More like Franco sucked the cock of Churchill, which is what really happened.
Yet still it's worked, in other hand the Republic was pretty chaotic and I think it turned into something like this:
1) Republicans wins the civil war
2) Pro-Stalin republicans starts war against other republicans
3) Germany invades to Spain
4) After "Torch" allies invading to Spain from North Africa
Most Spanish population doesn't care about the war enough to pick sides, in school most of us are taught that both sides had bad guys and goodies. Lately there's been a surge in historical revisionists which claim the republic was fucking perfect and everything that is not the republic is ebil and intulerant.
Also, Franco violated human rights in his early times, with executions and deportations, but this oppression faded away as time passed by. The republic on the other hand, respected human rights but could not enforce them, they were in fact a breddy weak regime, not able to control its population. Also the democratic system was utter bullshit, since both left and right switched continuously and revoked each other's laws and reforms. Also federalism, which was a big thing with the republic, doesn't work well in Spain
Not so much a constitutional one, it was pretty unclear what he wanted as succession, but whatever he wanted didn't matter since it was most of his cabinet who decided what to do. There were many people inside the regime, called the blues, who instead of a monarchy wanted a more democratised version of the regime for example.
>The republic on the other hand, respected human rights
I heard they persecuted and murdered the religious, as well and destroyed religious and culturally conservative architecture.
He took the country back when it comes to morally and ethically, with repression and removal of personal rights, but built it up into an economic regional power, which is still a benefit. I personally wouldn't change my rights for a better economy, but you gotta admit that pre-Franco Spain had a shitty economy, with ~70% GDP coming from agriculture
>What are the after-effects of the Spanish Civil war and Francoist Spain in the minds of the Spanish?
Nothing remotely right wing can succeed because of it. It really is a problem nowadays with all the immigration, we need a Trump or a Le Pen, but we can't have one because meh, Fascism.
>Are there Republican apologists? Are some of you Republican apologists?
No, republicans didn du nuffin. They never apologize for anything, nor they support anything but republicanism, which is a bad idea
>Was the Francoist regime worse than the Republicans?
He had absolute power but failed to unify Spain. That was his biggest mistake. He allowed post war revenge and this made lots of people to become un-patriotic ((they came home and executed your dad, brother, or son FOR NO REASON, just because they could do it and AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER)). This divided the country and this division is still on today, between the descendants of winners and losers.
Were they really all that different in terms of human rights abuses?
I haven't studied that in particular ((civil war was a no no subject in school, I'm 38)) but I guess that yeah, he fucked up, he had total control and let people go crazy and execute others for literally nothing for about 10 years.
Also all leftists are very methodical to remind everyone that the Republic didn't du nuffin and that Franco was the devil himself.
YA HEMOS PASAO
>never been a successful Latin democracy
>what is the SPQR
Burger education everyone
Actual government didn't, church burnings and killings were conducted by masses and parties, but never the government, which was weak as I said, and didn't enforce rights towards all people. There is tha fact that during the left part of the republic, no action was made against a church burning in Madrid, the biggest and probably the one you heard of. I don't think a government is guilty of its people's doings, but if you think so then probably yes, since they still have some guilt from not avoiding it.
True, they also censored movies and acted in a very leftie-puritanistic way, spanish sjw hate those facts
link related, a Buñuel masterpiece censored because muh good image
youtube.com
>never forget
based Franco
No such thing as "human rights"
Joseph Stalin always on the right side of History
The right to life as a citizen I suppose.
No need to get needlessly philosophical on the concreteness of definitions.
Franco was objectively the best iteration of fascism.