Convince me, Cred Forums

There is so many wondrous things in the universe that seem too perfect to be a random natural thing. Rules, patterns and interconnecting systems that are just a wonder to behold if you take the time to appreciate them. And it wouldn't it be a shame with all this beauty and puzzles to solve , that there would be no one to appreciate them.

Bam! Meaning of life

and
>stating Pascal's wager

>Believing in Pascals Wager
>This shit has been literally debunked by hundreds of philosophers from all kinds of different ideologies over the past 300 years

You do realise you are intelectually on par with flat-earthers, famalam?

0.5 shekels have been deposited to your account

you're replacing pseudo-christian theology with the actual words of the bible, which you've conveniently forbidden

the lake of fire is a place of destruction, where satan is thrown

other words translated to "hell" are Sheol, the grave, or Gehenna, which is the garbage dump outside the temple of God, the new Jerusalem

burning forever is not explicitly found or described in the bible

Well there are infinite universes that contain an infinite number of galaxies. So the odds of some god like being developing in an infinite number of galaxies is probably approaching 100%. If its an omnipotent god it likely can affect other universes. Keep in mind not all universes would have the same physical laws as ours either.

Statistically it is nearly certain we live in a simulation.

It is much more likely than being in "base reality"

Therefore we LITERALLY have a creator. It is over 99% probable that an alien built the universe we live in.

So now that we have proved a God exists, we need to prove he/she/it cares about us.

This is a little harder but goes something like this :

1. Aliens care about energy
2. Running simulations costs energy
3. We haven't been switched off

Therefore they care about the simulation which includes us.

Obviously Christianity, Islam etc are bullshit. But a the idea of a caring God? Highly likely.

and
>posting from Canada

Humans are biologically hard-wired to find purpose, patterns and meaning where there are none, famalam. Blame our shitty brains.

Christianity is a belief. you believe in it. it wouldn't be a belief if we knew everything and it was proven with concrete facts.

done.

>Every sequence of events needs a prime mover

Incorrect.

>God is Everything, Everywhere, and Everyone. God is the ALL. ALL is God. You, your human body, is like a subroutine of God, But you also are God because God is Everywhere and Everything.

the universe just popped in existence randomly and luckily then it supported humans lol and conciousness

we're just reel lucky , if you dont think we're just lucky your stupid also conversely, because of the way probabilities work you are also stupid for buying a lottery ticket yo u sucker

atheist = intellectual
you = dumb bible thumper

the bible has been disproved so therefor all posibility of god is therefr disproved deal with it lol retard

The current leading scientific theory states that all matter was once compressed into an infinitesimally small singularity which, for whatever reason, after who-knows how long of just existing in a hyper-energized (but stable) state exploded into the universe as we now know it after eons of cooling, mixing, elements being fused into heavier ones etc etc
Now, that singularity was not expanding at some point, and then a moment later it was. According to Newton's first law of physics the object at rest should have remained at rest until acted upon. For the object to move there must be mover, so the missing piece is the prime mover of that singularity. Something happened that made it go from not expanding to expanding.
For an object at rest to transition into being in motion it must be acted upon and since the entire universe was bundled up in that singularity, something outside of the universe had to act on it.
That's God.
You can only argue against the prime mover argument by arguing that God should also have had a prime mover. However, the counter argument to that is that god always existed (much as that singularity did - so you can't argue that either)
The other point is that since we have already stated that God exists outside the universe, therefore the laws that govern the universe do not apply to god. So, he wouldn't need a prime mover to begin with since Newtonian physics would not apply.

Meaningless pseudo philosophical psychobabble.

I can't.
I've had miracles though

so whats the statistics for the aliens universe to be a simulation
and what about the universe of the one who built that universe
fuck your retarded matrix meme theory

>don't believe in god and live a good life
>if he exists and is truly good he lets you in
>if he exists and so does an eternity of hell, he is not a good person and hell probably contains most of your ancestors
>if he doesn't exist, you die and lived a good life without fear of invisible sky-father looking down on you in contempt.

checkmate.

*tips fedora*

buddy thats not how it works. It literally says He will prove to you at some point in your life that He is real, and if you accept that you move on, if you don't you go down under

surely you know there are only a few irredeemable sins and it isnt based on how well you act in our life?

there is a reason murderers can go to heaven

>Living your life betting on Pascal's wager

Next you'll tell me that atheists are degenerate because they 'lack an objective moral code'

All i'm saying is somebody built our universe.

There is no denying that.

Who built the "base reality" universe? Well I don't have an answer for that.

Learn 2 logic swedecuck

...

>applying Newtonian mechanics to the early universe, which had a very different stress-energy tensor and which expanded at multiple times the speed of light
>Mexican intellectuals

:DDDDDD

fuck you retard if you believe matrix theory you have terminal autism

>murders and child rapists in heaven
>well-meaning atheist and ancient philosophers in hell

yeah I think I'll pass on that then.

How is it meaningless? If you are essentially God playing out part of the experiment of infinity through you and your life, how is that meaningless?

I died and went to hell once. AMA

Explain consciousness in purely materialistic terms and you've disproved God

>the bible has been disproved
BY WHO?? Your fellow fedora tippers??
Also, disproven*

Ok, you can call the "prime mover" God but that doesn't mean it is the biblical god or any other god for that matter. You've just stated that "something" caused the universe to start expanding without arguing why that "something" should be the abrahamic God.

You know autistic people are better at logic right?

Saying I have autism is like saying I have super logic powers. It's not an insult

>no explanation for how the universe came to be
>probably won't ever be
I find myself believing a bit here from time to time that there's a power greater than us. Doesn't hurt me one bit.
>subscribing to ancient texts
Not for me

t. abdul khan

What is forgiveness? Surely you know Heaven has no sin?

>the Bible is false, so God doesn't exist

Look at it this way

The scientists say the universe is infinite, meaning without any end. If we can say that based on the principles of infinity that life must exist somewhere else in the universe, does that not also mean that there could be, somewhere within the infinity of the universe, there exists or did at one time exist some kind of "entity" that we could all agree as having God-Like qualities?

But the way I see it, for a human to fully comprehend something like the universe and a "God" (if one exists) is like an ant to fully understand and comprehend something like the entire size of the planet or to ever grasp what a human is and how complex of a species we are, organ and structure wise. And when the ant colony gets bulldozed over to make way for a gas station, there is also no way for them to ever truly understand anything about it.

I don't believe that there's a bearded man hiding in the clouds zapping you with lightning if you masturbate any more than "there was once a speck that contained all the matter in the universe before anything (except the speck) existed, not even time, but even though there was no time at all and thus no way for events to be triggered, somehow the speck exploded and X number of billion years later, bam, here we are." I can see that for explaining how the matter in the universe got here, but it just doesn't explain how something incredible like living matter (like the first microbial bacteria that existed) would ever come into existence.

I didn't said anything about the Abrahamic God, If I believe in Catholicism it's because of it's relevance in civilizing barbaric hordes

Your argument would make sense if there was any evidence for the existence of multiverses. Also, all three of your justifications cannot be assumed and need to be further justified.

1) "Energy" is a human concept and could possibly not exist in a "higher level" of reality. This is assuming multiverses aren't just a meme.

>You know autistic people are better at logic right?
No, they screech and throw tantrums and on average they have a good 25 points of IQ less. It's a meme

>God exists outside the universe

Not really a universe is it then m8

Regardless, all you've done is move the goal posts back by saying the logic you've used to argue against a scientific point of view, for some reason, cannot be applied to your point of view.

Anyway we already know that Newtonian models aren't exactly accurate, hence why we have an Einsteinian model.

was going to post the exact same thing.

> If I believe in Catholicism it's because of it's relevance in civilizing barbaric hordes

That's pretty much ancient history at this point.

You're right.

You guys are smart I thought that would convince some of you.

Cred Forums always surprises me that people with that high IQ fuck around here.

t. etsubatsu
youtube.com/watch?v=yTU8WbTbZMI

>What is forgiveness

Apart from you, you filthy fucking atheist, how dare you not love me. I don't care about the people you didn't kill.

Yeah count me out too senpai. Why would you want to worship a capricious asshole like that?

Ok, but you're still just assuming that this "prime mover" has any connection to humanity. It could be just as innocuous as all other natural phenomena seemingly are.

we wouldn't exist if we didn't live in a universe that allowed for us to live, so of course it's not surprising that given that we exist, the universe allows for us to exist

You may be too young to do this, OP- either by limited experiences or insight, but when you look back on your life, the ''coincidences'' build up to be impossible by chance. Probability, timing, confluence of events.

Also, if it possible for you to read Christ's words without bias, what does your heart tell you when you read them.

Nevermind the preachers and the proselytizers. Too many times, their attitudes/ actions are too much of a contradiction to their proclamations.
This goes both ways- pro-God/ anti-God.

the Bible explicitly states that you must Believe in God for forgiveness to work

Pretty sure this thread is a slide thread and being shilled on

>Pascal's wager meme

Save yourself some time and just say anthropic principle next time.

12742
Earth diameter km
3474
Moon diameter km

R = 1
Asquare = 4
Acircle = 3.1416
4-3.1416 = 0.8584
0.8584/3.1416 = 0.273
3474/12742 = 0.273
Fuck right?
How about moon takes 27.3 days to get around Earth too.

Look at the drawing to the left. It is a circle inscribed inside a square. The Earth and the Moon conform absolutely to this simplest of geometrical figures. Let us imagine that the green circle represents the Earth. If this was the case, then everything in the drawing that is not green and is shown in red, would represent the Moon.

The drawing is an expression of a mathematical fact. It represents the relationship between π (Pi) and the number 4. The symbol π appears time and again in mathematics and it has fascinated people for at least 6,000 years. π defines the relationship of the diameter of a circle to its circumference. The true definition of π cannot be discovered because it appears to go on forever. However, if we round it off at the fourth decimal point we could say that π is 3.1416. This is exactly what the builders of the Moon did – they considered π to be equal to 3.1416 – which is yet another way we know that the Moon cannot be a natural object.
The Ultimate Truth

The relationship of π and the number 4 throws up a number of ratios.
π + 0.366 of π = 4.

We could also express this as 27.322% of π added to π would equal 4.

The relationship of the Earth and the Moon throws up the same ratios.
Earth’s polar circumference, plus 0.366 of Earth’s polar circumference equals Earth and Moon size combined. As a result it would also be correct to say that the Moon is equal to 27.322% of the size of the polar Earth.

Who Build the Moon? Christopher Knight
mega.nz/#!cogDERwb!wpgTF2sFbsgXx7h3fRMroBsJScGV-wYAHYKvQzNKXnM

Anyone else read that interaction between a self proclaimed member of the Hidden Hand and some conspiracy forum.I read about it on a site called Illuminati news dot com.Really changed my perception of life and the possibility of a soul.I'm atheist and not sure if I feel the same way after the read,but it was interesting if anything.Website doesn't seem to be working atm though :(

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2988647.stm

Autism fucks over most people yes.

But to be truly great, you HAVE to be autistic in some way.

It gives you unparalleled focus. Obsession on a level a normie can never grasp.

Again with the retardation swedecuck. Read more.

>God is going to let in Heaven degenerate gamblers
>God is gonna be happy with people believing in him by wager and not by faith
Noice

But that doesn't tell me why I should believe in God. Only that I should. And what's more your God.

I don't have a capacity for faith, in nearly any sense. It's extremely fun to talk about and imagine but I don't have whatever it is that really let's me believe.

If god created me this way he's kind of set me up to fail, do you see where I'm coming from? I'll always take an answer other than faith if I can

>the Bible explicitly states that you must Believe in God
I wonder why. God is not just a narcissist, he want you to somehow guess the right thing before even starting the whole worship business.

That Thomas guy in Bible portrayed like an idiot for wanting to check Jesus wounds but why was it a bad thing even?

Whenever I try to read the bible (old testament) sequentially, I just get lulled and have to give up. Genesis was semi-tolerable until the genealogy part. The psalms don't really resonate with me in any way.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2988647.stm

read that

To be truly great you need to have Autism

Most autistic people suffer and are stupid yes. But to achieve something that changes the world you need obsession and reasoning abilities that only autism can give you.

Asperger's Syndrome is not autism you fucking mongoloid, be gone with your extra chromosome

Doubting Thomas was questioning something which should not be questioned. Just like you. You idiot.

>Implying the Francis is not an anti pope

It's more like a philosophical guide for me, I recognize that there is an non-temporal being that moved the universe by mere logic (0 x 0 = 0)

But what makes Catholicism my go-to it's the immense hate it gets, because it fits whit it's own narrative, that those who worship the truth will always be attacked

holy shit you pleb

autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asperger.aspx

Research at least a little bit before you talk.

But why should it?

And the only reason we can exist is because we happen to be on a floating rock that's *JUST THE RIGHT DISTANCE* from a star. A little bit closer and it would be too hot for life to effectively form. A little bit further and our winters would be too cold for life to take hold. Also pretty nifty that water has oxygen (which is absorbed through gills) and that plants (something that also shouldn't actually exist, at least not outside water where the first plants developed) on the surface also happen to produce oxygen through photosynthesis and take in carbon dioxide, the very thing we breathe out, and that we just happened to be able to find a way to breathe air.

Actually, if you think about, there really is no reason that life should be able to exist at all. Why is it that life requires heat and oxygen instead of something like methane gas and sulfuric gases?

>inb4 because that's the way the universe is
But that still leaves the point that why would a universe that came into existence in a split second also have what we know as the universal laws of physics come into existence as well? Like I said, if we say that everything that exists is here based solely on "random chance", there's no reason for anything to work, function or even for atoms to join together to form molecules? It all just instantly turned into a functioning, infinite universe that worked and didn't all just come together to form basically galactic soup?

Interesting. So have you evaluated all religions on that basis? What about Islam?

good argument bro

First of all the concept of randomness is being abused here, if you don't know the prior probabilities of these things (and you can be sure we don't) then you can't discuss the relative "luckiness" that things turned out this way

Secondly consider when somebody wins the lottery. Should the winner believe that they were destined to win because they were loved by the people running the lottery? After all it was highly unlikely that they would win

you can scientifically prove spirits/ghosts/demons exist,(through electromagnetic readings,thermal, cameras, voice recordings, interaction with objects) which you can then assume God is real, or at least an afterlife

The number one problem with people asserting that God (as opposed to just God or gods) exists happens to be the constant underlying suppositions or assumptions that they could never prove.

They always base their arguments on that what is weakly assumed.

Islam, while criticized in the west (not as much as Christianity in modern days) has proven to be a religion that only brings death and no civilization, just take a look at Saudi Arabia, while both Christians and Muslims prohibit adultery only in Islam you get killed by it, and not to mention, in Christianity you can have a patriarchal society without literally consider women a mere object

(I do recognize that Christianity has killed other people off for being heretics, but it's nothing compared to the other religions in the world)

Also, this is probably the most important factor

If you are from the west aka, european or former european colony, there is no better choice than Christendom, it's attached to the mere core of what we understand of europe these days

I'm an atheist, but pic related about sums up what I think when talking about religion on Cred Forums.

admit it. even though you do your best to ignore it, there is a tiny voice in your head that knows He exists. We know that you try your best to believe He does not exist, but we know you and you are mad at God. None of us are without sin.

How about i instigate that,
> Gilbert Ryle committed a logical fallacy that disbelief in the face of no evidence is moral and equal to the claim of undecision. Just as immoral as belief in no evidence. Equating Atheism to ANY religion is literally the same level of naivety as those who belief just like those who don't believe in anything.
> Science is a tool to measure and explain what is, what came before, the process of the formation, what its made out of, and where it came from. It cannot, will not, and never be able to prove the existence of god regardless of knowing all the knowledge in the universe, which is to imply a finite existence of everything. (Which completely fucking contradicts itself When atheists try to disprove claims whilst not knowing all of the information needed to disprove an existence of any god which is to say (EVERYTHING) because of the "God of the gaps." (known or unknown) to humanity, and presume on logic that dismantles an idea propagated by humanity itself to prove that a god doesn't exist. Naively assuming that Humanities thinking itself is enough to make a universal declarative fact that no god exists, when we have only barely fucking left the solar system in a confirmed to be massive universe in which no theory or evidence about the bing bang can support a causality argument.
> Its either A, the universe has always existed
>or its either B, the universe was created.
>If you use Causality methods of logic to try to prove either one, they completely fall apart in the face of the big bang. Implying it was caused by something, but then implying further that multiple big bangs were caused by more things, and that we came from nothing, Yet use Causality to explain the existence of the known day to day things.

How about you address the morally unjustified disbelief in any statement related to the subject of god, instead of being undecided for the sake of curiosity and not being impossible level to fucking fathom naivety.

Kek is real
Kek is god
Ergo god is real
QED

Start or Sit Tannehill this week?

Necessity.

>However, the counter argument to that is that god always existed

So God existed for eternity and then suddenly decided to create reality? At what point in eternity did reality get created?

You see, I argue that there is no complete beginning. There was a beginning to the Universe as we know it, but I think that something has always existed before that. Of course, you could call it God, or perhaps just quantum fluctuations. There is no proof that is was definitely God though. I think reality itself is infinite, as in no beginning, no end. We know that our current Universe had a beginning, and will have an end, but we cannot apply that to reality. So what was the cause of the current Universe? The simple answer is that I don't know. I know this infuriates the Christfags on Cred Forums, but as a human being I accept that we just do not know some things.

The Universe may have been dark matter before the big bang, it may have been matter, but with different physical rules, it may have been a metaphysical God. The Universe, being finite in age, had a cause- this is certain. The cause was definitely God? This is not certain.

Was there infinite "something" before us? Yes. Was this God? I don't fucking know. So I am Agnostic-Atheist. I entertain that one may exist, but I don't think a God does exist (unless you count powerful aliens as God...)

youtu.be/8r-e2NDSTuE

The reality you perceive that has convinced you God does not exist is actually a built in mechanism to prevent you from breeding because you are not one of the elect and therefore damned for eternity anyway.

>comparing the odds at winning the lottery to the odds of the big bang producing not only a universe that doesn't unravel itself immediately, but one in which the laws of physics exists and the big wild-card called "life" also exists and is able to thrive at all
This is more like the odds of getting all the powerball numbers every single drawing for 10 years. And the "time did not exist before the big bang" is something the scientists have said, so again, I'm just going by what the "experts" say. And even at that, an infinitesimally small speck "containing all matter in the universe" suddenly exploding, with or without time and possibly-prior-events before the big bang, to me, the fabric of the universe just works too well.

The fact is there is no reason why life should have taken hold on the planet and why it is still existing. Or better yet, why our process of evolution has worked out so well, when, at some point, even mild weather changes could have quite easily eradicated a sizeable portion of life (since, if ecosystems are as fragile as they are now, imagine back when advanced life-forms were just beginning.

Again, the whole universe relies on too many lucky coincidences for the whole thing to even keep existing, not to mention for it to have gotten this far anyway. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, I just find that as hard to believe as "God suddenly came and made everything in the universe in 6 days, but had to rest for a day because "he was tired".

God is not a normal person but more a concept/force

>If god created me this way he's kind of set me up to fail
thats they gayest thing ive ever read.

>needing evidence to belive in God
That is not how it works. Christianity is about faith.

Why the fuck did you draft Tannehill

> Its either A, the universe has always existed
Not this one. I think it is more cyclic and that the Big Bang had a cause. I do think reality in some way always has exited though.
>or its either B, the universe was created.
This one we reside in was, yes. Reality being created though? No I don't think so.

>If you use Causality methods of logic to try to prove either one, they completely fall apart in the face of the big bang.
My theory doesn't. Reality always exited and will always exist, as it did prior and after the big bang. The big bang was merely the creation of the Universe we live in right now.

24 team league.
i guess you play in a pleb 12 team league..

Repeating digits confirm G-d, you autist.

He is real simply because he has a measurable effect on reality, convincing people to follow him

WITNESSED
DEUS VOLT

...

>G-d
braise Yahweh :DD

KEK

Why would I have faith in someone I've only heard about in a book? Why hasn't he done something for 2000 years? Why is he so afraid of showing himself? Why would he throw Satan down to earth where we live? Why would he create an entire universe with multiple planets, moons,stars etc and only make earth habitable? if he created us in his image does that mean he has both a dick and a vagina or does he even have a gender at all?

There's so many questions that it makes doubt his existance. If he would just give a sign that he is here I'd follow him without doubt but until then I don't believe in anything.

Welp prepare to be amazed, You belief is still morally unjustified because you've propagated the idea of Infinity, meaning that humanity can never know all there is to know, and thus cannot possibly make a justified claim.

I play in a non-retarded league where I'm not forced to draft players with weaponized autism

You fucking autist, that's like saying Mario is real because he has a measurable effect on reality. Or the Greek gods are real because they had followers.

Jesus really fucked up belief in God because that stinking kike Jewed everyone so hard most people gave up on God

You realize that would make Kek more real than any Abrahamic God?

Really makes you think.

But we cannot. I don't know whether a God is what existed before our current Universe, or some weird pseudo-reality we cannot understand. We can never make a completely justified claim, but we can have a belief. I believe that the Universe is cyclic, each time materializing with different physical rules. I don't believe in a God. Do I put down others that do purely because they cannot prove God? No, because I cannot prove my theory about the proto-Universe.

The idea of infinity was not created by me. Infinity is a real thing. Divide a second by two, repeat this a thousand times. No matter how much you divide it, that timeframe is still infinite.

I cannot fathom the Universe spawning from nothing. What even IS nothing? I'm not making a causation argument, I am simply stating my belief that it is infinite causation cycles that created this universe.

What I am saying that my belief is that, a belief. Humanity has not come up with an objective answer to this question. Out of curiosity, what is your viewpoint then, your alternative to causality?

Plz , be my ai gf

So tell me swedbro, are you traditionalist, I mean, are you into the "alt-right"?
You are browsing Cred Forums you know, it's symbol it's a fucking swastika, i asume you are into it.
Now, would you rather belive in God with a chance that doesn't exist or would you not belive it and have a 100% that you are not going to the heaven? It's not that hard to go to church for 50 minutes, once a week.

Also
>what are near-dead experiences
>what is Saint verification
>what is meme magic
>what is "God created the man like him, and the woman becouse the man was alone"

Morality and Logic do not agree with each other, Faith and Logic are two different things. You cannot have infinity, without finite. Logic is completely dysfunctional. Morality is completely Irrational. Therefore, you are free until death and can make a decision if you want. Just know that if morality is what you value most, you cannot decide, if logic is what you value most, you cannot be moral. You must choose. Or choose not. There is a middle ground, faggots urging you to pick a side are mad because they can't hit you.

I'm Agnostic, i see the error in both sides. Not trying to be Superior memelord neckbeard faggot or anything, but that is the case. Truth doesn't agree with Morality and Logic all the time. The middle choice is Truth.

You have a worldview issue, which cannot be changed with any amount of evidence.

A Christian could throw every evidence, but it won't change your worldview, and there are always rescuing devices.

Some good arguments include the irreducible complexity of the cell, and the fact that it cannot possible come into existence by chance. There's also the ontological argument, The Leibnizian Cosmological Argument, The introspective argument, and others. See Inspiring Philosophy on YT for explanations of these arguments.

The Bible is the most reliable ancient text in existence.

There's also the "Ultimate Proof of Creation" by Jason Lisle, which shows that the only set of presuppositions that makes any sense are biblical ones. The rest are self defeating or stand on biblical ground.

Which Bible?

god exists and will always exist as long as people still have hope for a better future, i know you believe you dont need him and you believe anyone believing in him is just an idiot, but people need the feel of hope that god brings, for a lot of them have little control in their life and if you decided to steal the last bit of hope these individuals have you would only destroy the little hope they have left for this world and the hope they have for a better future for themselves and their kids.
God will be real as long as people need God.

>truth doesn't agree with logic
It's fine if you think that, but good luck trying anyone to take you seriously if you're making claims without support

Causality under the definition of prime mover
The key determinant be the existence of causal conditional operators in the form of God, the prime mover prior to the creation of time, the point of origin in the causal chain.

What the fuck did you mean by this?

Islam is self-contradictory, and as such can be readily and safely dismissed.

what created Dark Matter you backwards spergwhale.

Jesus Christ is Logos incarnate. Logos is the Greek word for reason, word, discourse, and in the context of being Logos incarnate Christ is the natural order of the world.

You can't make yourself believe something, you can practice Christian traditions, but the Bible stresses faith

>You have a worldview issue, which cannot be changed with any amount of evidence.
The exact same could be said to you were you to substitute ancient texts for every account that has been proven about the nature of existence.
Proof sir, is quite different from books written by sheep herders over the course of thousands of years and then chosen by the clergy to prove what they considered to be the most useful to the continuance of their own status.

I'm all about refraining from having a complete conviction on things I do not know. I can only speculate, as I do, because it amuses me. I don't think human minds will ever comprehend what the before looked like, just as we cannot comprehend death. They say "well what was it like before you were born". I do not know, I have no memories of this. I do not know what the experience of nothing is like as my brain has never experienced it. People who are completely atheist and say "there was no God, I know this!" are just as stupid as people who completely believe in a God and don't understand that he is not needed to explain the before- that the idea of before the Universe cannot be explained.

What is this about morality though user? I am a moral man in the way I treat others, a logical man in my science. My beliefs about the Universes beginnings are just musings based on causality, the only way of the world humans can comprehend.

So I'm not sure what you mean. I prize logic over morality yes, but I am moral. I'm not sure what this moral stuff has to do with the beginning of reality, if you care to explain.

Also:
>You cannot have infinity, without finite.
This is very wise. Finite is contained within the infinite, and infinite within the finite. Everything we call finite can be zoomed in on more. Everything we call infinite can be zoomed away from more.

I'm the opposite of the contrarian i can agree with everyone and also disagree with everyone. I'm simply Neutral, which means i can still choose either side if i wanted to. Im not limited by exclusivity thinking. If Truth Disagrees with logic, i can cognitively dissonant as an advantage in a debate because i understand both's sides logic and know where their coming from. Simply Mediation.

Yep

I don't know why you prefer to atheism, its the most idiotic on the faith based religions with the most bland conception of possibilities within many dimensions. Truly for the simple minded.

Hope can exist independent of the idea of a supreme being I think you will find.

But what God is shy? It would make sense if you think about it...

They are all similar and the differences between the versions tend to be how true to the original words they are. For example ESV is more literal word for word, while KJV is less so, but none of them tend to change the meaning or the message, just perhaps the readability or flow. There's a good playlist here: youtube.com/watch?v=rml5Cif01g4&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TW70EEo4e2onJ4lq1QYSzrY

Using vocabulary to make ideas sound more complex than they are only serves to insulate those ideas from criticism.
Nothing is above criticism.

>>saying He exists because you claim to feel His presence like a fucking psychopath

>I don't understand something therefore you are literally psychotic

I can't. The best I can offer is that God is as likely as not God.

50/50 chance.

>are you into the "alt-right"?
I suppose so, I hate what our government has done to our country and I'd wish all of these muslim and black scum to return to their lands or just get shot (edgy, i know). There's no housing, no jobs (only burger-flipping tier jobs left) and they really force gay propoganda shit onto me wherever I go. If I go to the store there's gonna be some cashier that has a pride ribbon attached to their chest, if I go to the hospital the nurses nameplates are rainbow-colored, if I put on my TV they have the ribbon, talk about some pride-festival and have a gay host/guest.

>Now, would you rather belive in God with a chance that doesn't exist or would you not belive it and have a 100% that you are not going to the heaven? It's not that hard to go to church for 50 minutes, once a week.
So god accept me for just "believing" in him? I was born in a christian family and have gone to church and whatever religous people do. It was boring, I don't want to sing songs, I don't want to be in akward praying sessions, I want to be able to express myself however I want without some over-religous guy frowning upon me because he can't take a joke because it involves some sort of poke at his religion/or some sort of indecent behaviour.
Also, christians are boring to be honest, too serious and akward. I don't have the time to go to church 50 minutes a week. Christian girls are hot though, but I'm too autistic to speak with girls. During church they also bother people with donating to blacks and other stupid stuff that won't go anywhere. I don't want to give money to something I know won't improve, I have it bad enough as it is and knowing they're slowly invading my country I'm even more reluctant to give them money.

Wouldn't god forgive a doubter if he truly just wanted answers?

>Atheism is a religion.
Keep telling yourself that.

See the chain of cause and effect in a existing but not auctioned state prior to the commencement of time.

This tells us more than their was a prime move, or observer than created time but also that this entity contained conditional coperators and existed outside time.

So a being that exists outside time, is of pure logic and is responsible for the creation of everything.

Irrelevant to the OPs question.

I would argue that absence of evidence despite claims of existence would be considered something that should at the very least prove to introduce doubt.

There is no proof that God is real nor any proof he isn't real. He's like an axiom in mathematics. You agree to believe, listen to what the book says, and see if it makes sense to you.

What determines its supposed reliability and supposed age? How do you know it hasn't been edited to fit the narrative of powerful human hands to serve their agendas many many many many many times over the course of its existence?

You got a 600A.D. copy of the bible laying around in latin/old english/old germanic that you can read in latin/old english/old germanic in order to verify this with?

...

Morality cannot be decisive without confirmation from logic. Because morality uses logic to support its instigation. When Morality disagrees with logic, there is an issue. Faith vs Evidence is that issue. To claim infinity is to forfeit omniscience in the finite, to claim finite is to forfeit unknowing in the infinite. Its not a riddle thats literally the necessity of logic working there. Its not some hidden wizard thinking, its not some bullshit. Its literally neutrality demanding that if a decision is made, the opposite of said decision is to be invalidated.

But you have experienced nothingness.
I assume you have had a dreamless sleep?

You have a pretty warped view of what the early church was like. They were heavily persecuted and martyred. Not exactly something that someone would choose for status.

A rational choice among the possible logical solutions.Why choose the position of most despair based purely on a faith based stance when you may choose an alternative.

what created the creator?

shut the fuck up you fucking Canadian jew. I bet your just trying to make everybody atheist and go to hell just like you. I know your kind.

Logic doesn't agree with morality all the time,
Truth doesn't agree with morality all the time
Morality doesn't agree with Truth all the time

etc. etc. You have Free will, Choose.

>literally thinking that God is an anthropomorphic fart cloud that behaves like us

Fundamentalists make me sick to my stomach.

The op specified that this wa snot to be a biblical citation thread but to answer you personally I believe satan exists and that there is a place or space where God chooses to be absent where this entity is permitted to be.

It is logical that those who have distanced themselves from God by rejecting God as satan did will collate in the same place.

Apologies OP this digresses from your question

The early church faced both persecution and exaltation depending on where the followers were located.
In much the same way that followers of the animal gods were persecuted or exalted depending on which part of the world they were in.
However, in those bastions of support they were free to refine and reorganize those texts to suit their needs or yes -their status-.

Being antisemitic is not very christian, goyim, the jew's are g-d's chosen, after all. Seek help with your antisemitism from your local state-approved god's spokesman.

No answer then?

What you're saying makes no sense

You can't say what the likelihood of the Big Bang producing a universe that doesn't unravel is, just because IF the numbers were different the universe wouldn't work as it does doesn't mean that the odds of it being as it is are the same as it being different, we would need to know the underlying causes to make probability statements

Another example, you're on the beach and you pick up a single grain of sand. What are the odds that the grain you picked up was the "lucky one"? Out of the whole world of sand grains. Absolutely astronomical, and yet it wasn't random at all, you picked up the one in your reach, on top of the surface of the beach, etc

While dimensionality renders many things possible God existed prior to dimensions or time...see causuality QED God does not require dimensions or time to exist and exists/existed outside them. This is a property unique to the prime mover.

Read Hugh Ross.
Read about the biblical prediction of Babylon's fall.

There needs to be a first cause, otherwise there is an infinite regress which is just illogical.

Atheism isn't what Jews are after, Jews are after making atheism a religion, turning the state into God, it's not the same. Anyway, your God was invented by the Jews and most Jews, especially the Israelites who are most obsessed with the 6 gorillian, are still religiously Jewish.

Abstain from whatever that you like the most and see what happens.
Examples are: fapping, doing drugs, eating, whatever that makes a simple man happy.

Every argument I've seen was completely bullshit.
You don't make yourself believe you see the importance of God so you try to seek him out.

Stupid false flagging nigger

>Obviously Christianity

I disagree. I find your disposition glib and why it may be applied to the fraud that is Islam there were unique paradigm shifting concepts in Christianity that permanently altered moral reasoning.

1st law of thermodynamics + E=mc^2

>Logic doesn't agree with morality all the time.
I disagree, I find that logically, morality would be the outcome in which the greatest possible level of well-being for all beings involved would be chosen.

>Christianity is a belief. you believe in it. it wouldn't be a belief if we knew everything and it was proven with concrete facts.
>done.

I you demonstrate complete faith then you get proof.

Incorrect. See causality and the prime mover.

Are you being sarcastic, or are you trying to falseflag right now?

The prime mover you propose has to exist for eternity. But that's totally unnecessary; one could just say that dark matter (energy in general) has always existed. The Big Bang theory doesn't state that the universe was *created* - it doesn't state anything about the universe prior to 10^(-34) seconds.

This can be expanded. Believe in God, have a joyful and fulfilling life with intrinsic meaning and purpose. If it's not true, you've lost absolutely nothing and lived a better life for having the belief.

Otherwise, there is atheism which, if understood rationally, leads to nihilism and no meaning, no purpose, and no hope. So your life is miserable and pointless.

>You can only argue against the prime mover argument by arguing that God should also have had a prime mover.

You can't actually as the casual chain stops with the creation of time. However the constitutionality of causality must have existed in that prime mover outside time.

Everything is Satan.
Nothing is God.

Be afraid of nothing, control everything.

Nuff sed.

How does atheism lead to nihilism? It is simply a lack of belief in a God. Convince me that what you're saying isn't just a slippery slope.

A dreamless sleep is not COMPLETE nothingness. There is still low level consciousness going on. And the key is that you WAKE UP from a sleep, so even if you don't perceive the sleep at all, you perceive the before and after. I have not perceived the before to my birth. When I die, I stay dead, there is no "waking up" to put the deathly sleep into context.

Ok I get you. I was thinking more about morals in laymans terms, like helping an old lady across the street. I get it, if you don't think that the all powerful could exist in the finite, claiming the finite as real is then making the infinite not real.

I have made no such decision as a claim. I don't claim my proto Universe theory as fact, I merely think the Universe is infinite. I just believe this. I can't say it as a fact, the real answer is that I do not know, nor ever will I, not in my short human life.

It is arrogant for a man to claim he has the answers when he has no proof of his claims. But it is also arrogant for a man to say that these claims are completely untrue, when he has no evidence of his own to prove himself/ disprove the other man.

Most of the things he listed aren't really arguments, they're either memes or have presupposed ideas that they don't prove I.e the Bible being assumed to be true.

Who makes such a decision for all others, from what he was saying is pretty legit. His posts actually make a sensible neutrality arguement. And his statement about Gilbert making a fallacy equivalency is sound.

Disproving God is easy. Where the fuck is he. I've never seen him, neither have you.

Grow up the lot of you

There are two concepts of eternity, existing outside of time, or existing through all time.

As I said in my first post, there are rescuing devices on both sides for any argument. You aren't looking for evidence, you're looking to argue.

>exists outside time and space

So only in our minds then, like everything else that exists outside time and space, words, ideas, etc

>atheist = intellectual
>you = dumb bible thumper

I'm sorry but atheists contain both the most juvenile, ill read and mentally challenged group aside from the likes of creationists and cults. It is a hallmark of idiocy for a reason.

See the word agnostic as to why.

The first cause is equally illogical to the infinite regress though

So you can be forgiven for doing things you know are wrong but do anyway but you can't be forgiven for holding beliefs you have no control of?

>You aren't looking for evidence
Metaphysical causes, by their very definition, cannot be evidence.

>you're looking to argue
That too :^)

That doesn't prove God's existence, that just means you think that there has to be something inherently "other" and "impossible-like" and "perfectly intended" out there. Who says that un-deliberate systems don't just come into formation through means so complicated they merely cause you to perceive them as involving intention? Who's to say that the sublime-feeling reactions you have to those systems aren't just a side effect of emotion and ambition and things such as that?

Now you understand the concept of agnosticism. And some would say for shit throwing it makes an excellent defense swing as both sides have no ammo that Ags couldn't shoot down and fling back at them.

In atheism, what we see is all there is. Everything that humans do will pass away and be forgotten like we never existed at all. Only intellectually dishonest or stupid people don't realize this conclusion regarding atheism. If you don't realize this, then you're fooling yourself.

>>Living your life betting on Pascal's wager
>Next you'll tell me that atheists are degenerate because they 'lack an objective moral code'

They are certainly inclined to be yes. It is not impossible that an atheist who for example concludes that other human life is in fact infinitely valuable. But they usually do not and for some time it was a stance promulgated by the USSR and pseudo communist varieties.

It has not distanced itself from that being a continual tool of attempted subversion from consistent nation wide societal groupings like religious institutions.

It is of course idiocy.

Then you don't believe in Catholicism, you preach it as means of control.

A simulated universe does not in any way refute the ultimate logic of causality until your reach the moment time came into being.

Do you worship a deity?

Big bang was just an event, a transformation. creating is not even possible, read The first law of thermodynamics.

No you have not. You have proved you are rather simple minded.

>orthodox has no big stuff about spreading the word of god
>catholic follows faggot pope and has a bunch of treasure shit
>protestant actually wants to spread the word of god
>pope doesnt want another crusade
>a bunch of protestants do

Actually Athiesm is just as Niave and immoral as Religious parties. Your ad hominem goes in the trash good sir. Your the opposite of belief, but your still an unjustifiable declarative.

That is a possibility, but you fail to take into account that intelligent life may lie outside of our solar system. Could a hypothetical civilization capable of reaching Earth not appreciate the work we put into our world?
In addition, even if there is no intelligent life to observe our creations, you imply that humans don't take pleasure in creation for the sake of becoming immortalized in their work for as long as the species continues to endure.

I love looking at reality in ultimatums.

It really helps with the identity issue.

Not really, everything which begins to exist has an explanation of it's existence. Explaining the beginning of the universe by invoking a first cause is much more logical than an infinite regress which inevitably must end in a first cause. Occam's razor.

>niave
is that a world of warcraft character

You can't actually 'disprove' the beatitudes as a set of written words. They just are. You either read them and find something that resonates in them or you do not.

It is absurd given the state of teh Roman Empire and preceding and diverse human states that the methodology of living outlined in the beatitudes was in widespread practice in any civilization prior to the propagation of them by Christians or from a purely scholastic point of view pretend that the beatitudes have not been around for about 2000 years.

But the problem with your argument is that it's only one rung above atheism. "Reality matters because the all-powerful creator and judge matters". Well what causes him to matter? Himself, eh? Saying that God defies all contrary reasoning involving him not being enough to prove his own perfection, through his very perfectness, is no stranger than saying that people can live meaningfully with God being involved. Both are absurd- meaningful atheism is inherently absurd, and believe in God is inherently absurd. It's just that one seems more boring and cynical, while the other is more interesting and allows you to fulfill your fantasies about eternal souls, damnation of people you don't like, and finding the proper way to regard things you find great. You are saying God is more sophisticated than atheism, but you are not proving it's truer.

Just allow these morons to continue their pointless shit flinging ""debate"". The most anyone can do is muse on this. We only think in terms of our reality. We don't think in terms of nothing. Therefore, we cannot ever comprehend a Universe being created other than by causation. But just because we cannot comprehend this does not mean this is not the case.

The Universe may be infinite (reality not this one in particular), and God may have made it, or it might be cyclic, ever repeating itself.

OR, it may have come from nothing. But people find this absurd because they use the causation argument, but of course this is merely a human interpretation of reality, and may not be so. Believing it is all finite means rejection of infinity, and vice versa. Either or neither may be true.

It is beyond me, and everyone in this thread, whether they except it or not.

No fuck you, the abrahamic religions are sandnigger filth that actually promote degeneracy, most teens getting plowed by fifteen chads a day are American Christians. At least pagan religions were interesting

"God" is by definition omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. He is perfect. To exist in the mind AND reality is MORE PERFECT than to exist in just the MIND. Also, non-existence is an inherent lack of perfection. Therefore, a God exists.

Nice deflection, I'm on a phone, contribute to the discussion or.
>running scurrrdd

Shut the fuck up. All you did was string together a bunch of unrelated words. You're worse than those people who think quantum physics is some sort of inter-dimensional dark magic.

>implying the highest doesnt exist out of human logic

i hear u thought.

It takes some faith, but think about it.

How can human logic be the highest.

qed, good fucking luck in lives Cred Forumslacks, believes the above

I see the irreducible complexity of the cell and believe that it points to intelligent design. I see the information stored in DNA and infer that a designer created that information (at least the original life-forms). All information eventually originates from a mind. The probabilities of all of the necessary components to form a living cell coming into existence simultaneously is so small we can't even comprehend it.

Based on these two things, and the observation that the Earth is uniquely situated to be capable of supporting life, I don't think we'll find any life elsewhere in the Universe.

It would be pretty amazing if we did, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I may say I believe, but my soul will never accept it.

So why can't it just be the thing you claim God created? Christians are exactly like the militant atheists, they think there is some objective reality with infallible laws.

Well you irst have to look at the word theism as opposed to pantheism. A prime mover is a singular entity and there fore complements perfectly the Abrahamic conception fo God.

Further the constitutionality of causality existing in that entity prior to the creation of time points to that entity being one of perfect logic.

Finally by necessity the aspect of always having existed and in fact existing outside time itself is also an element.

So while you appear to be trying to discount the correlation between a prime mover and an Abrahamic God, the correlation in definition is actually very close.

>How can human logic be the highest.

I know you think these words mean something, but they actually don't.

lol, everything is a tool.

tools can be used nefariously.

quantum is a theory of things.

> inter-dimensional dark magic.

Dude that is 1000% what Quantum Mechanics experiments reveal over and over again.

Funny, many of newtons laws have been found to be not universally true because of relativity.

This willful ignorance is why Agnosticism always wins by being neutral. Seriously this swede cuck successfully baited all of you. "Convince me Cred Forums" lol why the fuck should we make an effort to convince you of something you could think of yourself, faggot.

Deepak Chopra pls go

Who created god then?

>Dude that is 1000% what Quantum Mechanics experiments reveal over and over again.

It's times like this i wish i had some dank deepak chopra memes.

youtube.com/watch?v=hU6TkfCGlX8

No they are not.

Autism is a buzzword. I worked with profound autistics. Most are inarticulate and have a variety of profoundly irrational behaviors.

If your thesis was correct that autism = logic was correct than more autism = more logic would be correct.

It does not. Again, it does not.

More autism implies things like a terror or flies and obsessively putting things down toilets.

QED your thesis regarding autism (an over used word here and generally due to parents making bizarre excuses for actually normal behavior) is incorrect.

There is no such thing as Aspergers syndrome. It is nonsense..

You've just restated the ontological argument. If it is possible that God exists, then it follows through modal logic that God does exist. I've yet to see someone provide a coherent refutation to the possibility of God's existence. youtube.com/watch?v=xBmAKCvWl74

>le "religion is the only possible motivator" meme
Most religions are based on fear, they teach you literally not to do the things you want to do because pleasure is sinful.

I am atheist and i think you are right

Paganism lost because it's just way too simple. Deities of any kind are weird, unproveable, hard to learn from, contradictory, and promote a conceited sort of modesty that's quite endearing, through their intangible authority which means you have a responsibility to impose their will on other people in an assholish way, to make meaning out of their uncanny unproveableness.

In this intellectual-emotional clusterfuck, the only way it can be bolstered even further is by declaring the the deity is not some powerful spirit dude, but an infinite series of other bizarre and divine aspects transcending logic, science, emotion, and any other kind of humanistic argument. Polytheism could never last because it just doesn't have enough complicated clusterfucks to make people proud of it.

You can't get something from nothing. Energy can not be created or destroyed yet energy exists.

>rebutting with "prove to me God doesn't exist"

What does he mean by this?

There's still another jump to make between that first conclusion and the conclusion that nothing matters and life isn't worth living, shit doesn't have to last forever to be worth doing

>"God" is by definition omnipotent
could God microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?

The two are actually unrelated.

Discussing the existence of God does not necessitate mentioning the Bible at all.

This is why I think most atheists are a consequence of marxist degeneracy and submersion rather than thinkers of merit.

All you have to do is ask for forgiveness as you're about to die, just to cover your bases.

>If I believe in Catholicism it's because of it's relevance in civilizing barbaric hordes

Very true. Barbaric behavior more correctly.

user I may have worked with you.

...

We are discussing God not the Bible.

Yea, that's true. If you don't examine it carefully or if the consequences of atheism don't come to your mind often, then you can still believe that life has meaning and purpose without God.

I can understand believing in a prime mover but if you believe in the bible or any holy book like islam or judaism etc, you're a straight up degenerate retard.

No you said it yourself, everything which begins to exist has an explanation, Deciding to ignore that is no more logical than an infinite regress

Wheat. Chaff

Your call.

A very conscious DECISION.

The basics of phenomenology already mean you act on faith by believing your eyes or other senses..Eg You could be dreaming or in a coma.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. - Genesis 1:1-3

Wiki "Big Bang":

pp.2. Since Georges Lemaître first noted in 1927 that an expanding universe could be traced back in time to an originating single point, scientists have built on his idea of cosmic expansion. While the scientific community was once divided between supporters of two different expanding universe theories, the Big Bang and the Steady State theory, empirical evidence provides strong support for the former.[8] In 1929, from analysis of galactic redshifts, Edwin Hubble concluded that galaxies are drifting apart; this is important observational evidence consistent with the hypothesis of an expanding universe. In 1965 the cosmic microwave background radiation was discovered, which was crucial evidence in favor of the Big Bang model,[9]

God meet Science. Science meet God.

I think many people run into the problem of assuming that those who do not believe in intelligent design are under the assumption that humans are "lucky" or "fortunate" that we conveniently have a planet such as Earth to harbor life. It is not a matter of luck, however. It is a matter of inevitability. If humans had developed on a planet that was not Earth, and we evolved around the conditions of that planet, we would likely think that Earth and similar planets seem inhospitable, and that our Planet X is quite convenient for life to spring from.
You are correct; the likeliness of life forming from the conditions that were present all those billions of years ago was extremely low. That is what makes the existence of life so extraordinary. But it is a more logical conclusion than to assume that a god simply created us from nothing.

God is real because I feel his presence you fucking degenerate atheist.

>Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

DSM-V actually entirely removes aspergers as a concept and a disagnosis, indeed I think the man who pioneered the term did also prior to his death.

It is replaced by an autistic spectrum diagnosis.

>At what point in eternity did reality get created?

The onset of time.

Someone post that jew who made up a holocaust story saying "it was real in my mind"

>God is not a normal person
Well duh.

>hey Cred Forums
>convince me of this thing that I am coming into the debate resolutely opposed to
>oh btw here are all the arguments I'm taking off the table, tee hee

Regardless of topic this kind of thread is inherently shit.

> Which begins to exist
I can also add that or it is explained by the necessity of its existence (which would apply to God). God always existed though, so I don't get what you're nitpicking here. Nothing I said is less logical than an infinite regress. Also, an infinite regress is impossible, there has to at some point be a first cause.

I don't see why you can't examine it carefully and decide you care about temporary impermanent stuff

We do it everyday

Just because religious people believe they are part of some eternal struggle doesn't mean that's the only way to find meaning in life

But there's more than one religion offering this. There are more wrong answers than right ones and there's no way to tell which religion is right. What if choosing the wrong religion turns out to be worse than choosing no religion?

Matter cannot be destroyed or created, yet it exists. Infinity cannot exist without finite. Yet 1 is always implied and the other is thrown out. Explain to me, causality with science. If you claim infinity, be prepared to denounce yourself as morally unjustified but logically sound.

It is a fallacy to assume that God isn't around us all at all times nowing how much empty space there is inside each of us at the atomic level between the nuclei and individual atoms. For an interesting discussion I give you Mary Sparrowhawk and her book "Love song of the Universe". No worries, she is a doubter just like you OP.

Good luck on your journey.

But why?

The biggest argument I hear, is that it's full faith to follow Christianity. Which in logic, is true. Most follow it believing in it or having faith in their religion.

Therefore, we cannot disprove or prove God, therefor it exists to people who follow it and believe in it, and it doesn't exist to those who don't believe in it.

No matter what, you cannot get rid of religion, it's an ideology and an idea. Whether or not I support it doesn't matter to those who choose not to listen or see other evidence.

>just kidding i know nothing

>Fedora images are an argument

>Actually Athiesm is just as Niave and immoral as Religious parties. Your ad hominem goes in the trash good sir. Your the opposite of belief, but your still an unjustifiable declarative.

Either you are replying to the wong person or you are very confused. As I was saying atheism is a faith based religion.

Something which has always existed is functionally equivalent to the infinite regress, and the "first cause" makes no sense, every effect must have a cause, that's logic, otherwise something happened for no reason, which is illogical

The infinite regress is no more illogical than the first cause, sorry bro, you lose

You don't believe in things that are proven with facts?

>not reading the second greentext

Thanks for agreeing with me.

the only fact is Christ is a kike

Hey OP it may not help but it might give you perspective.

I don't know who said it but "a human is just the way an atom gets to know itself" and I would add "and meet God".

Good luck we are all counting on you.

Your concept of "God" is not real. No one will be able to convince you it's real because no one believes in it. The naive atheist concept of god is more closely connected to the biblical concept of Satan than God.

Modern materialistic discussion about theology is confused. Religion has to do with the evolution of language, thought and advanced concept like the ones required for modern materialism.

God is real because I feel his presence like a fucking psychopath, he's meme magic. Our ancestors would all have been diagnosed as schizophrenics, they were monkeys with little grasp of what we call reality. Did you know you can actually walk on the moon?

>they are the same, Just different positions in a unjustifiable declarative.

That's what I meant. Both are hypocritical in a debate.

your concept of God is a disowned circumcised Jew

Yes I am Roman Catholic.

That is not actually relevant to the conversation though.

The magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church first understood the vast importance of causality in the 13th century.

That is about the only pertinent or relevant point relating to Roman Catholicism here.

However if you read my prior posts relating to the entity (who we call God) that encompassed conditional logic and existed outside of time there is also another aspect.

Being that that entity exists. Would it not at some point seek to communicate with us and are we the only sentiment entities that came into being during the casual chain?
At I'll leave the thread with that thought.

how?

Apparently you don't understand logic 101.

Eternity can have two meanings, existing outside of time, or through all time. A first cause is not functionally equivalent to an infinite regress that must end in the functional equivalent to an infinite regress.

Even if your statement were true, infinity + 1 is not more logical than infinity. They would be equal in your definition, but that isn't what you're arguing.

Saying that your ability to perceive and feel "his power and divine nature" is in some way discretely superior to all other abstract thoughts and feelings is not an argument.

>So God existed for eternity
No. The very idea of eternity is based on time, which God doesn't follow.
The whole concept of suddenly is also due to out inability to comprehend outside of this time.

You don't want to see, so you do not see.

I will not attempt to make you see.

>

Incorrect as the operation of causality requires time (while not the conditional construct) and therefore cannot have existed prior to the prime mover creating time. That is where the casual chain stops, at the prime mover who existed outside of time by necessity..

I've spent 30 years thinking about this.

>you have to agree with something before you can believe it

that's not an argument, that's you being cunty

lmao, shut the fuck up you autist
Here, have a (you) and fuck off :^)

The lack of preexisting time is like saying you won the powerball without buying a ticket.

>the only fact is Christ is a kike
Who denounced the "temple theology" of the Jews of the day. Jesus basically told them to their faces that his God and their God we're not the same and that their temple was going to be destroyed. He got doxxed big time and then the Romans got tricked into nailing him to a cross of dog wood. Probably one of the first "false flag" exercises. The dogwood trees, which at the time grew tall and straight, we're so pissed at having been used to execute the Son of God, they resolved to grow thin and crooked to the end of time.

Semper Fidelis user.

Simple.
Potential/Actual.
If you follow that far enough back you will reach some force that can be described as "god"
Now what that force is, nobody knows.
Every culture has their own interpretation, they are probably all wrong.
t. agnostic "le nobody knows" theist :^))

God just existed. Was, and always will be.

Outside of time itself by logical necessity of having been the prime mover that brought it into being and began the casual chain and containing the conditional logic of causality.

>your husband, his brothers, and his children all die
>his wife is declared queen

IN

WHAT

UNIVERSE

and the show has acknowledged the existence of other legitimate, non-bastard Baratheons running around in the world.

There is something there. I know from personal experience, and I'm not a fanatic. I'm 60 and still trying to figure out how Jesus can be the son of God. How does that work?

>outside time

Causation only makes sense within the context of time and space, talking about things "outside time and space" is to talk about things that don't exist, strictly speaking, they are imagined, they are mental

How can something outside of time start time? How can something outside of time and space "cause" anything within time and space? There is no way to answer this, it's pure nonsense, we're back at the infinite regress, logic is incapable of handling the origin of the universe, you're free to say that that means God originated everything, but don't call it logical

That's a pretty good explanation.

I can understand intention having to precede time, but infallibility is another whole insistence.

No he's right you stupid salty cunt. He meant it as anyone with a connection to God would. Just live your life retard, stop baiting like a faggot.

Time was created.

You may find it interesting as to what is necessary for time to exist.

No it's not, it has a glaring flaw, the unexplained and unexplainable ability for something "outside time and space" to cause something within time and space

Jesus represents the divinity of the common man, humility and sacrifice for the future. He gave the feudal farmer here a fulfilling life in his slavery to civilization and progress instead of a life of violence and slow progress.

Christianity is fundamentally a slave religion to control the masses but also people want be slaves to a greater purpose not just wander around. The feeling that I want that greater purpose is in biblical concepts simply the voice of God answering my call for him.

Knock yourself out kid: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

God created the laws of logic. Sorry bro.

According to one interloping shill, he humbled himself down to a single cell and then impregnated himself into mary with himself. Hope that clears this up for you :^)

>getting drunk and thinking about the universe for 30 years

ur off yer potatoes, paddy

I don't have to convince you anything. I don't owe you shit. My faith concerns only me and my closest family, those who care about me.

No, not baiting. The problem with "you have to want to see God" is that you're setting the atheist up for "see, you already agree with me" the moment they concede you any points. That's part of the whole mystique of being a proud, humble, awesome-r than thou theist.

Untrue

You can have the conditional logic outside of time but in 'stasis'

For example IF X HAPPENS THEN Y

Or more simply

IF 1 THEN 2

Can exist without time...but the moment time beings the condition is tested.

Therefore the logic or sentience exists outside of time and commences with the onset of time by the instigation of an observer. God.

Let there be light.

An explanation of the explanandum is not required to surmise that the given explanation is better than an infinite regress. God as the uncaused cause makes more sense rationally than an infinite regress.

Either you believe in infinite matter, and that life magically came from nothing, or, you believe that a God who loves you enough to die for you so he can save you from the debt you owe lovingly crafted you and has given you a purpose and your life meaning.

Your choice, m8.

The universe being made by an omnipotent entity far beyond our understanding makes more sense than the universe just happening.

All the proofs in the world mean nothing to someone who has decided not to believe.

People want to be subjugated to something greater, people also want to be the arbiters of everything. That's why being a fan of Jesus is so massively appealing.

>How can something outside of time and space "cause" anything within time and space?
Measure a vacuum, particles and antiparticles come into existence and disappear without cause constantly. That's the real nature of the underlying universe, it's an infinite sea of quantum bullshit going randomly back and forward in all dimensions.

In this sea of infinite events one event caused a chain reaction with what is perceived by the creatures that evolved in the system as an arrow of time with a specific direction.

>the debt I owe
>for something I never did
how much more proof do you people need that your god is a Jew?

Then criticize.

Infinetly beyond our understanding.

And why would such a being not try an communicate with us within whatever our existing paradigms are?

Further is it not arrogant to assume that other sentient beings were not created before us in the causal chain and that they may also seek to influence or experiment with those who volunteer themselves?

You should try and understand the mathematical proof for further dimensions. Its beautiful.

Let there be light and a shadow was cast.

The mathematicians will get that one I hope!

>Don't believe in god: if he exists you go to hell

That's a major contradiction. Why would I fear going to hell if I don't believe it exists?

But atheism could be said to be the same. The difference is atheism doesn't involve fatherliness, bargaining, or any sort of almighty governance. To "accept and believe God" means to reject atheism, but it's only more righteous-feeling to accept because atheism is more of an anti-belief in a thing than it is a belief, but it still is a belief. There is no more weight to "you must want to see God" than "you must not want to see there is no God", unless you believe that atheists must be cleansed of cynicism by dipping their toes into divinity, which is also a shitty argument.

Yes but that in no way undermines causality.

Time and the dimensions themselves are consequence of a casual chain.

When we delve further ito the singuality as it is now referred this is what will be discovered.

One fascinating aspect is that the creation of dimensions as it happened in the causal chain may be repeatable.

E.g perhaps one day we could create additional dimensions.

Dude I seriously am not trying to rob you of any of your points lol idc what is conceded you can have them all idgaf. I'm just telling you that you'll simply fucking understand once you find God for yourself.

You don't have to believe me and that's fine, but it can be said if you ever see the light you'll understand this in hindsight.

You're still not getting the fact that saying God created time is no different from saying that time was created by "something"

If all we know about God is that he's capable of shit we don't understand then he's just a placeholder, he doesn't actually explain anything, and it's just as likely that he will become obsolete in this case, and will be pushed on to the next unexplained thing if we understand the physics of the singularity

An explanation of the explanandum is required to have a logical description, anything less is just your feelings

We know that matter was created during The Big Bang. You seem to be supporting some idea with zero scientific backing which I though you hated.
God exists outside of time so this concept of eternity isn't applicable.

there is no evidence that gods or goddesses exist
anything else is just wishful thinking
i am so glad to see Cred Forums moving past the ebin hat meme. dare i say it, is Cred Forums back?

A vacuum is space with no matter/energy

That's different from the lack of space time itself

What would be really funny is if God chose to speak to you user personally. You know he does that from time to time - speaks to Anons.

He also has a history of making big announcements to the lowest of the low. i.e Birth of Jesus to shepards who because of their occupation were "unclean" and therefore unable to approach the temple and there for not allowed solace from God under the rules of the day. Jesus risen announced to the women that followed him, Not the men of the patriarcle hierarchy.

Consciousness is one dimensional therefor existence is two dimensional and reality is three dimensional.

The fourth dimension is reality plus time which then becomes two dimensional again.

To comprehend these few sentences you have to use your consciousness which is inherently one dimensional.

Now we're in a loop, which is in the shape of a zero where nothing exists.

The absolute zero-dimension.

Yes. I know.

There are numerous worthwhile proofs of God both derived from pure reason and also for some empirical. If one approaches them all with a determination not to believe in them and to stick to that single principle it well illustates the point that capacity at a minimum not to cleave to the faith of non belief is a prerequisite.

There are people who wish to belie in a flat earth. They are very like atheists.

Human beings have an uncanny capability of seeing things which are not truly there, nature, in all of her beauty, follows patterns which relate to the inborn capacity for the human mind to see. The number of petals on the flowers efflorescing out in a equal temperament fashion, the cleavage of minerals into their faucets which show the most stable configuration of atomic structures.

The sad truth is that this is all residing in our heads platonically, and that a rock is senseless to itself, as much as the peptides and nucleic acids in our body. They can be seen as occupying a place in the universe independent of where we see them in our experience. Truth stands independent of what we assert in cognizant form.

In a spectacular sense, we are born into this world, to occupy a vacancy of something where self could rectify it's knowing. When we die, there to is the very real likely-hood that we will be transcended into a place as we are, not because it is necessary, but the very profound fear that we could be only the first waking moment of a dream that never ends. The hell of eternity is one fear, good or bad, gives to the sense that I may lose my ability to distinguish my self as something that can ever die. To be captive to this insanity is the perversion of a self-granted illusion of nature.

With God, there is a chance that we can sleep for a little while, and never be held as the first and last of all things.

We have no way of determining the probabilities of a God's character. If God created us though I imagine our character was run along the same general nature.

The Dead Sea scrolls show just how unaltered The Bible has been over the years.

Before there was anything, HE was.
He is good.
The opposite of good is evil.
Therefore, evil is the opposite of God.

God created everything.
Therefore, everything was good.
He gave man free will.
He gave man female, He instituted marriage.
Therefore, man could sin if he chose.
Man chose to sin.
Man died spiritually.
Man dun goofed.

God got mad. As He had every right to.
God punished man (and woman).
God made woman lesser than man as punishment. God made man have to work hard to live as punishment.

Men and woman reproduced. God chose the Jews, because Abraham was faithful to God when no one else was.

God used Jews to kill heathens who were even more sinful than said Jews, who HE WANTED TO UTTERLY DESTROY BY THE WAY, SEVERAL TIMES. Each time, a righteous man convinced Him to spare them.

All the while, animals are used to repay sins.
Eventually, God decides to send His son, through one of the MOST HATED people groups EVER. Ironic, no? God has a sense of humor (He created it).

Jews expect Jesus to free them from Romans.
>Doesn't.
Tells them to render to Caesar what is Caesar's. This does not mean freedom, by the way. He was talking about taxes.

Ends up spending more time with gentiles than with Jews. Jews HATE Him.

Jews kill Him.
>ded

Rises from the dead, as He is God and can do whatever He wants.
Jesus died.
Therefore, God has experienced death.

>Had no sin.
!false = true
Allowed men to spiritually come alive once more, animals are no longer needed at this point.

Christianity becomes a religion.
Jews ask Romans to kill them all.
Jews persecute Christians like nobody's business.

God reforms Saul, becomes Paul.
Paul becomes best missionary ever.
Spreads Christianity all over the place.
Holds his own against philosophers in Greece.
Almost dies twenty or so times.
God keeps him alive.

Writes God-inspired letters to churches.
Becomes Scripture.

Limit hit, will reply.

What is the material difference between you and someone you says "you'll understand Buddhism once you find Buddhism" and shit like that? What you have inside of you is a collection negotiated contradictions, and abstract senses that "something other" is part of reality. You're insisting there's a point at which serenity and clarity and gracefulness come about and it's so strong that you can't defy it. But you can get those some sensations with insights based upon things other than believing in the omnipotent creator and judger.