Atheism

Why do you feel science is exclusionary to all religion?

There are, however, plenty of assumptions built into your comment that have no evidentiary support.

for me personally science explains a lot what religion hardly. also, ever since i was little I had to know the logic behind things to make sense for me. religion just didnt cut it.

but this doesnt mean I project my personal beliefs to believers, my parents are christians and they are good people. also many inventors and intelectuals were religious too.

Yuri Bezmenov himself said that christianity is the best defence against subversion.

t. atheist who wish he could believe

in think it's because if you grow up religious you obtain morals that make you a better person, i personally dont believe in god but i still consider myself a christian.

Science is but a means to understanding God.

atheists overwhelmingly replace their faith in an infallible deity with an infallible government

a religion with a good constitution appears to be less abused and adulterated than a state with a good constitution, so i believe that a good religion is a better way to keep people in check than a good state

t. atheist

I think the general consensus is we don't like religious shit on a political board.. which should make sense to most, but some retards (atheists and Christians) don't seem to get the message.

and im not saying it is not. but for me, science is just science.. and existence is just existence.

Oh yes there is.

i agree.

thats why i said in the OP that i support the ideal of religion, and bringing up children in the religious beliefs.

Cred Forums is filled with Atheists trolling Atheists and LARPing le deus cult xddd"""Christians"""
Atheism became hip to make fun of the same time that bashing tumblr and sjws did, mostly because tumblrites and sjws are usually atheist. Additionally atheists used to being on the offensive take bait here way to easily, thus effortless shitposting gets tons of (You)s.
Cred Forums has never had a majority Christian group on this website and the people here are similar to the people in the past.

For whatever reason the left hijacked atheism and now Cred Forums dislikes it.

SJW are now "proud atheists", so no shit people are getting grossed out by it now.

youtube.com/watch?v=emrD6hTKkIY

You say that as if politics and religion aren't interchangeable.

And what is death?

>deus vult

ACTUALLY, I would very much like to be religious.

being atheist fundamentally takes away the "spirit" of being alive. right now, i wouldnt fight for a government, for military cause not even for religion.

BUT if i was born in the 11th century, i would be religios, because of the lack of science, and because religion would actually bring peace to me.

also, fighting (((Selflessly))) for a higher cause is... poetic and beutiful.
>something we atheist will never achieve, sadly.

anyway, while i understand that the merits of a great system of religious beliefs differ little from the merits of a great culture, i don't really buy into the possibility of a perfect god

maybe i'm missing something about what type of perfection you guys describe, but i digress:

under the assumption that any action changes a certain property of whatever acts (and whatever is acted upon), that is, a person thinking about blueness no longer has the property of "not thinking about blueness"
if a god were absolutely perfect prior to the creation of whatever it is said to have created, how would it still be perfect after it decided to create something, since at some point at least one property of the god has changed

do you want me to tell you what i believe is "death" and "life" and all that relates ?

i didnt want this board to be about stupid fights, but if you wish and you keep an open mind i can tell you.

>You say that as if politics and religion aren't interchangeable.

''Spinoza says that if a stone which has been projected through the air, had consciousness, it would believe that it was moving of its own free will. I add this only, that the stone would be right. The impulse given it is for the stone what the motive is for me, and what in the case of the stone appears as cohesion, gravitation, rigidity, is in its inner nature the same as that which I recognise in myself as will, and what the stone also, if knowledge were given to it, would recognise as will.''

The real conflict is that theistic societies demand that there be some kind of intangible value for life and thus when you grow up into an environment where life has "meaning" becoming atheist can be an internal crisis as you feel like you're losing what you were brought up to take for granted. The argument of life having meaning has been a key foundation for many apologetics.

Cred Forums started disliking atheism because leftist groups started hijacking the label as this user says and also because fedora meme

Started a couple of years back when Athiesm became mainstream

so atheism wouldnt be a problem if people were brought up IN the belief that there is no meaning to life. they would feel the "emptiness" as something normal.

but then again, how would you ensure such a populus would hold up the moral code ?

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God or Buddha or Allah. The idea of a God who has a list of rules they apply to humans is something I can't fully embrace.

That being said, I'm spiritual in the Carl Sagan sense. "We are all stardust and we are all connected."

And speaking of science- I love science. The scientific method has given us answers to many of the questions we seek. But at the same time, Even I'm smart enough to realize there are some questions science does not, can not, and will not ever have the answers for.

I was raised in a christian house. I attended church regularly, and most of my values and beliefs stem directly from Judeo Christian philosophy, which is also what forms the foundation of the United States of America, A country whose constitution and core principles I love dearly.

I appreciate and respect how Christianity can enhance ones life, and society as a whole. I am what libtards would call "privileged", but my good fortune comes from the strong Christian roots and values of the family tree I was born into.

I think the Christian God is simply a representation of humanities best traits. I have no issue hanging out with christians, bowing my head in prayer while in their presence, or being in churches. Christianity is a very comfy religion these days. And more tolerant than ever.

>implying Christianity created these morals
Morals are already set in our society, we don't require religion to re-enforce it. The laws created are not set because a religion says so. This atheist user will raise his childrens based on what he feels is right, not what the bible told him so.

I did ask.

What is the difference?

atheism isn't and shouldn't be political. You live and then you die for seemingly no apparent reason. But hey, at least you lived. religion just tries to give your life a reason.

Islamic State of Iraq and Syria

What I've noticed is there is a lot of kids that come here. They wen't through an atheist phase, not actually being atheist, and now think that all atheists are edgy faggots like they were.

God isn't real. You will die one day and that will be the end of it. There is no afterlife, just like there was no beforelife. If people didn't die when they are killed, you wouldn't care about God's existence.

Thanks for reading.

Bye.

Friend, you can't lose. It's easy as easy can be.

Believe in God go to heaven
If there is a heaven OK
Don't believe in God go to hell.
If hell does exist well you are screwed.

I'll take the less painful option.

>Don't believe in God go to hell.
You will go to Hell because you didn't believe in Indian Gods anyway.

>something very rare and unusual happened to me
>i completely disagree with this being a "coincidence"

80% of what you just posted relates to this.

im not aiming to attack, just saying.

>Christianity is tolerant
They hate homosexuals because their book says so; they want you to live by what their religion dictates.

atheism does not mean no meaning to life
nice bait

people will behave morally simply if they believe that behaving morally will benefit them. in short, an upbringing that instils virtue within children and helps them to associate pleasure with the good and pain with the bad will create a moral society

for specifics, only a society of individual responsibility and the full realisation of the consequences of one's actions will not lead to a universal decline in the upholding of moral standards.

a society that rejects shame is a society that is soon to be dead

I am not Pajeet, I prefer designated sharting aisles.

>at the same time, Even I'm smart enough to realize there are some questions science does not, can not, and will not ever have the answers for.

go check out how islam turned out then

You cannot disprove the existence of a deity that will punish you for not being an atheist. Pascal's wager is truly retarded.

I missed the part where Jesus talked about hating homos. Can you point it out for me?

Careful with the memes, you might anger the real Pajeet,

fair enough, but it can mean that depending on your perspective

That's the thing, religion isn't giving you answers, it's making you believe their is a purpose. Technically answering 3 to a 1+1 question is an answer, you should care about if that answer is correct. How do you know the "answers" religion is giving you for your questions even are right? What about Islam.

Great. If Christianity hasn't produced better morals we should be able to find equally socially pleasant society's without Christian influence.

>China
>Soviet Union
>India

Oh well, maybe its just poverty.

>UAE
>Saudi Arabia

Www-well maybe that's all just because they aren't western

>Japan
>Israel

These places are honestly shit places to have to live compared to the Christian world. Even Japan and Israel have some shocking skeletons in their closets. You simply can't be the type of person who comes in to these threads and not accept that the few things that are currently right with the world aren't due to the actions of Christians.

And once you accept that you might as well be honest with yourself and thank God for being the root cause of all of those goods.

You can hate something and still tolerate it.

I hate loud black people, but I tolerate them when I'm forced to be around them in public.

Being intolerant is Islam.

They hate gays, They don't like "non-muslims"

They do not tolerate them at all- they behead them and blow them up.

I've got christian friend that don't really care for the concept of homosexuality, but they're not out protesting and trying to "bring down the gays"

That's tolerance.

le pascals wager

It's not that, it's that Cred Forums hates people without conviction.
Atheists usually have little to no moral or political convictions, they're overwhelmingly in the "dude weed lmao" green zone of the political compass.
They go with whatever sounds "best for humanity", which usually means whatever bullshit democrats come up with.

The part where Christians deny homosexuals the right to marry, where they will not allow them to live they way they wish because their bible says so. Jesus said homosexuality is acceptable? Why are Christians citing the Old Testament from the Christian holy text the Holy Bible?

Cherry, blueberry, and lime. Yum.

Christcuckery is nothing more than kike imposed cultural slavery.

Atheism is reasonable and more importantly, an opponent of the completely unreasonable.

I am not an atheist, nor a materialist, but I strongly support militant atheism as a state policy, especially as directed against Abrahamic cuckoldry.

>he's never heard of Confucianism

That nonsense did nothing to answer my question.

Christianity is great for social cohesion and keeping degeneracy at bay but youre not supposed to literally believe it.

Science and reason is the greatest contribution of the white race. Get your superstitious bullshit out of the alt-right

Death to all semitic religions. Atheist un-holy war. Re-establishment of traditional EUROPEAN worship. Future wars of religion without jewish influence.

Go on and name a society following confucianism that you would want to live in, smart guy.

>go to heaven
>face god
>explain that you lived all your life by the word of the bible
>get told by god that he didn't give you free will and intelligence to blindly follow a book some cunt wrote
>off to hell you go

I wasn't implying all Christians are intolerant, I was telling you not every Christian is tolerant, and a decent amount at that. How is depriving an opportunity from someone tolerance? I can hate niggers, but not letting them on a train so I don't hate them is tolerance?

allright.

in my belief, science gives the only reasonable explanation as to how we even got here, the big bang and stuff. its hard to accept if you just take it as "well something exploded" but after you understand some of the physics behind it, it starts making sense.

one of my favorite books is Dan Millman's way of the peaceful warrior. I highly recommend it, it IS actually spiritual...

>there was a mishap in evolution, something that set humanity on a different path from animals, something that wasnt really supposed to happen

this fuckup in evolution is the capabilities of the human brain. Humans just became too smart.

you HAVE to understand that brain, back in the ape days, was just a tool.... just like a leopard had claws, monkeys had long arms, people had brains, which served as a tool of survival.. this tool actually prove too good and we rose above animals, and continued developing consciousness

this lead to the the terrible accident called "self realization"

as soon as men started to wonder, why am i even here ? wtf is this ? who am I ? something started that couldnt be explained. the brain was too developed, and started thinking about things that we only hardly grasp now.

so people had to have something to lean on, something that sets their soul to peace.

thus came religion, which gave them..

sorry i know you asked about death, but this was actually important for you to understand my point.

death was always, and always will be just nature's way to forward DNA.

one single creature can distribute DNA, but only replicate.

but by dying, and having sex, and babies, we actually create unique DNA which furthers out existence. death is just a compromise, evolution wants you to die.

It's because edgy 17 y/o Fedora Reddit Atheists ruin it for anyone. Not to mention the Christfags get triggered when you mock the kike on a stick.

Atheists are literally the same level of naivety reflected back at religion. You only exist because fucking religion lol.
>inb4 Gilbert Ryle, both of your declarations are immoral and irrational. Because their based upon no evidence.

Neither did yours

>I find more sense in science
this is what breaks any validity of your world view
science is not in opposition with faith

Only niggers and muslims need religion, the white man has morals

Keep dodging the question, bitch. You have nothing.

sadly the white man has become fucking degenerate, sproutboer

A better option would be having the area I live in be confucianist. Confusicianism is very popular in nations such as China, but I would not want to live there because of their government.

>science is not in opposition with faith
Anything not falsifiable does not belong in science though? What am I missing here?

It's immoral to disbelief based upon no evidence, just as it is to believe based upon no evidence. Your literally the anticedent to religion. Both of your choices are irrational as well.

well .... i guess you are right... even by being an atheist there is one small thing no scientist has answered so far, but is pretty... how should i say it... it is far from the typical "religion ideals"

There is no objective morality, you mudblooded kike worshiping cuck.

You cannot do any science without the stable platform the christian worldview affords you.

How do you know your religion is right? How do you know you aren't a reincarnation from another life? How do you know you are not supposed to be praying 5 times a day and fasting? How do you know you aren't supposed to be a jew? How do you know you are supposed to offer your food to the Olympians? How do you know?

care to elaborate on that claim?

if all verifiable science shows that a cup is blue, and you have faith that sense perception is wrong and it is actually red, is that not in opposition with science? or do you mean a certain faith is not in opposition with a certain science; or do we have different definitions of science and faith?

as i said, christianity WAS great, when it was needed. when people were in despair and in chaos, religion was the right thing to do. even today, religion keeps people educated and morally stable. im just saying, humanity achieved a point where we can question the likelyhood of these things

Absolute Neutrality to this topic is objective morality, stop being an edgy twat and contributing to a debate that has got countless millions killed since the beginning of our time here on earth. To participate is to be immoral faggot, debate me or an Agnostic and they'll tell you that if you declare anything you enter the issue and forfeit rationality and morality for the sake of Truth.

If u don't believe in Bible ur a fat fedora nerd.

Plc rel8: Doesn't believe in THE BIBLE.

The camps will be running full steam for you and your hook nosed masters, slave.

Atheism is highly correlated with leftism and faggotry, which is why they hate it. They can't help but make the association.

As an atheist (but agnostic really), I understand their frustration.

Jesus didn't tell Christians to hate gays, so why do they? They are not citing the New Testament, so they couldn't care less about what Jesus says. Just because something didn't come from Jesus does not mean it is not apart of Christian teachings. Even the Supreme Court's ruling was 5-4. They are Christians denying other humans opportunities because their religion dictates it. Where did Jesus say gays should marry?

so should i just call myself agnostic ?

Easy answer. You dont know shit about the Universe. So claiming there is no great being makes you look like a bigger idiot then you already are.

> the white man has morals
... morals that originally came and evolved from Christianity and slowly were assimilated by the psych of the white man and now that they're taken for granted we decide to deny their source based on the very principles the source nurtured us with.

What are your morals, human? Be kind and helpful and love your fellow humans? Don't kill others? Don't steal? Don't lie? Don't torture?
Yea, all of these and more are nice morals to have.
But humanity went through many hoops so you can now be a nice and ethical person who ''Doesn't need religion to be nice''.

Think about it.

well faith is not a science, obviously

i hit you in the head
you ask me why did you hit me?
i answer you felt the pain because your neurons detected pressure and sent it to your brain, that's what brain interpreted as hit

but why did you hit me?
ah, because molecules of my hand made a contact with your face

but WHY did you hit me?
because my hand was in a circular motion having a momentum of blah blah and your face was inertial blah blah

but WHY....

and so on, so you can see, science and faith are talking about 2 different things

I would abstain from the debate if I were you. These idiots think objective neutrality doesn't exist.

They're not comparable.

'Agnostic' is a caveat to either atheism or theism. It is not a philosophical position in and of itself.

If you don't believe in a deity just call yourself an atheist.

well said. Although convictions might come in the form of something you don't deem worthy. Like smoking all day.

you pretty much summed up /pol's dislike towards atheists , they completely destroyed their credibility by memeing the fuck out of christopher hitchens 'le atheism is for le smart'.

Agnostics give credit to religious so I would say no. It's not really a stand, I cannot fully disprove something that nothing exists, only that the ones claiming something does have no proof, so why should I even consider it?

can you make an example where this kind off opposition exists between science and religion, so we can talk about example (i guess we're talking about christian mythology about creation of the universe)

You must be some limp wristed NAP natural rights faggot sissy boy to hold such an onerously weak willed opinion.

What is right is right only according the scheme by which right is defined, cuck, and your definition won't save you from the death squads you pathetic little worm. Having no stake is just painting a nice big target on your asshole, faggotboy, and you're going to get fucked by the long arm of the revolutionary state.

kinda /thread here. so far you two actually gave me any new insight.

Morality doesn't agree with Truth or Logic all the time. So it's not like athiests couldn't be more moral than religious people, but the likely hood of athiests being assholes about anti intellectualism may cause them to act irrational, when their decision is already immoral and unjustifiable. Just know that your decision is also unjustifiable and immoral.

Logical fallacy
>just because you don't know everything puts your knowedge into question, and therefore what you do know can be considered false or rejected.

How do you know there is a greater being?

>it's immoral to believe something without evidence
false, it's just an illogical claim
it is not immoral to push a button which would convert a dying man to the belief that the afterlife is perfection in bliss

also, a statement or its contradiction must be true in all cases. if it is silly to disbelieve based on no """evidence""", then you end up with a silly set of beliefs in which you believe that every god exists at once, whilst believing that each god exists only by itself, each belief in a god existing without other gods being a claim that all of the infinite other notions of god are false, so you will be claiming an infinite number of times that the same thing exists and does not exists

it is impossible to not not believe and not believe at the same time, as if it is false that you believe, then it is true that you do not believe, and if it is true that you do not not believe, then it is false that you do not believe, so it follows that truth is at the same time falsehood

>atheists
>not overwhelmingly edgy teens and nu-male cucks

most atheists are edgy faggots tho, have you ever read hitchens or dawkins, they are two of the biggest edgelords i have ever read or watched.

Actually, just for the sake of the arguement I'm going to pull up a a vague reference to being a "man" is to hold controversial and very confront iv'e opinions. Stop using ad hominem and fucking debate me.

I see, so we're talking physical vs. metaphysical

im not edgy, nor a teenager or even a cuck.

i am an atheist. see my other posts and discussions before making assumptions.

you can make all the meme jokes you want but you know that it's not true.

God loves atheists.

No it's immoral, Gilbert Ryle made a false equivalency when he aquated gnosticism and agnosticism as the same moral pretense as Athiesm, when Athiesm is a declarative state of knowing and the middle formers are not. Hence immoral.

faith seems to be a very loosely defined term, so it'll be hard to pin something down without using hypothetical demonstrations. i'm not making the claim that common-held christian faith conflicts with science, i'm making the claim that faith can conflict with science

science and religion are not mutually exclusive, as one is observation of the world and the other is faith.

Those who worship science because of crazies like Dawkins or fedora lords like le black science man are serious fucking redditors and need to get out.

morals are not set in our society , and most laws stem from religious doctrine (laws of the land, common law, not mercantile law obviously). humans do for the most part seem to have an ingrained sense of moral right and wrong

So you love living under a government with Christian values and you would hate living under a government which has historical confucian values mixed with athiesm.

But your absolutely sure everything would be great if everyone else changed to confucianism, and your absolutely sure that the things you love about your community had nothing at all to do with the faith of the people who built and maintain your community now.

How can you defend that?

ty m8

>Jesus didn't tell Christians to hate gays, so why do they?

I don't know; I'm not a mind reader. I do know that people can hate whoever they damn well please.

>Where did Jesus say gays should marry?

He never said that. You might not be a sodomite, but you're a massive faggot.

Was Christian as a child because i needed somebody to tell me how the world worked.
Was Atheist as a teen to rebel against the system.
Switched to say I'm an agnostic in my late teens, because forming a religion about not believing was as stupid as believing in a religion in the first place.
Became a deist as an adult. Basically the best of both worlds. You can profit from the principal of faith while not being exploited by religions.
And the best thing is, if I go to a hell for this, it will be because of my own beliefs, my own decisions.

it's their insufferable accents. Some brits sound awesome and others make me want to fucking shove my fist down their throat.

>Be omniscient omnibenevolent being
>Create a universe with no evidence of your existence
>Create barely-sentient life with a penchant for solipsism and wish-thinking
>Reward those that decide to doubt the myths of their mewling past and pursue rational inquiry to the best of their abilities

Seems reasonable.

I think it should just be made clear that faith cannot be used in science

One ever someone has killed someone in the name of god, he actually did it for satan. But adding to that, he claims to do it for god, and creates for even more people, also for you, a false image of god.

It's an awful sin to do.

...

Deism is a form of atheism. Belief in a creator who takes no part in the affairs of its universe is functionally identical to lack of belief in a creator.

But in history were always different cultures with different senses for moral values. It's not always a given, so if christians have high moral values, I think it is doing something and should be appreciated.

But, I think moraly wise humanity is nowadays in an awful state.

wouldn't it be for religions and believes, we would have lost track already in a much earlier time.

>Christians believe their god's most favoured prophet is also a satanist

i'm not quite sure i follow. i didn't claim that it was always not immoral to believe something without evidence

i'm also somewhat sure that our definitions of atheism, theism, gnosticism and agnosticism are different. i've always held gnostic atheism to be the claim of knowing and being able to prove that there is no god, agnostic atheism to be the claim of believing that there is no god but not claiming to be able to prove your belief, and so on.

anyway, if you assert that it's always wrong to believe without evidence, surely it must be universally immoral to cause somebody else to believe without evidence, and such it follows that making someone believe something that has no evidence supporting it (that is, lying,) is universally an immoral action, which is false if you believe that in the following circumstance it is permissible to lie:

your children are in room a, police are in room b, an armed man asks you where your children are because he wants to rape and murder them.
if lying is universally impermissible, then the moral action is to direct the man to rape and kill your children

>silly to say something isinexistant because there is no proof
Thats a mistake made by many, a lack of evidence is not evidence. Do we have enough reason to believe that religion has run its course? I say yes. Religion is the product of civilization, and spread a great deal. Laws and religion back then went hand in hand, and many people converted religions just because their leaders did. (See Constantine) Other religions spread because of conquering, for example Buddhism spread rapidly in Asia due to the efforts of Ashoka. The Americas are primarily Christiab because of the Christian settlers. The Native Americans primarily stayed in missions because they were given food and shelter. The only reason you are likely a Christian right now is because you were raised to be, why is it so common that the religion of the child is so commonly the religion of the upbringer? It goes back and back for thousands of years. Religion may have started due to humans superstitions, and living a sedentary lifestyle allowed for ideas to cumilate and become more frequently found. These ideas were also reinforced by natural disasters, because humans are supersticous. These people did not claim that there exists these deities using the methods and tools we have now, they were naive and needed to "answer" things that they had no other way to answer. Their morals are not objective either, their morals are simply what was commonly accepted. This differs from culture to culture. It just so happens that there is some longevity based on allegory and due to this the original text are no longer necessary. So we do not need religion.

Rare

>like my spicy maymays ?

I believe everyone will see the afterlife. Everyone will have a chance to negotiate about your life and why you acted that way.

There are many reasons to believe in after life, for example: kids who remember their previous life.

i'm not quite sure you replied to the right post, friend
what exactly were you quoting?

>living under a government with Christian values
Wrong, seperation of church and state. I want to live here because of the freedom I have, I would not be able to share my ideas unless my government offered me these freedoms. The U.S is a land of opportunity, that I may not have in China. Chinese government influenced by Confusicianism how? Confusicianism dictates the government should be like your family. The major religion in a nation does not mean their society is solely based upon this religion. Not even Turkey follows Sharia Law

left is a real edgy teenager.
right are 4 casted models for an advertisement.

pic basically says - atheism is real.

Not all forms of deism are supporting the non-interventionist thing.
Actually it's more like a stunt pulled off by it's critics.
You can actually believe what you want if said belief is only based on your own decisions.

Exactly, Jesus agreed that homosexuals should not marry. This is why people say gays should not marry, because their bible does not tell them that they should. They want people to live their lives based on what their religion dictates.

>also, fighting (((Selflessly))) for a higher cause is... poetic and beutiful.
>>something we atheist will never achieve, sadly.
Depends on what you identify as a "higher cause". I believe I could say trying to create a better future for your children/humanity can be seen as a higher cause, as it's less about you individually and more about your offspring/species.

Wait, you're saying you sincerely take at face value the words of a child? Did you ever have a childhood? Have you ever read the literature that demonstrates the child's comparative inability to separate fact from fiction?

>it's just an illogical claim,
That's what I was getting at, you did implying that it was moral by declaring what it was. Unless you were being specific for the topic. Regardless of whether you like it or not, objective neutrality exists, it doesn't matter how fucked up or gruesome the circumstance is. Because if It turns that free will is not the case, I would still be in the right to do nothing. Not responding btw is a moral choice. That's a neutralitic expression to aggression. It's not passive or aggressive. Thus I could still save my children if I had them to begin with.

Science can explain the reason why people make decisions and how they think, it is called psychology

deism is not a form of atheism. Deism still has faith in a deity, even if that deity takes no part.

i think i understand now that you misread my post
it was an argument against the proposition that 'it is illogical disbelieve in something because there is no proof for it'

Deism, by definition, lacks a theology. It is an atheism by definition.

It is also functionally identical as I have explained.

hmm. after this long thread, what i've come to realise is the fact that people lack the knowledge of psychology.. mainly.... the most posted arguments are

>remembering afterlife
>near death experiences
>godsend miracles, "coincidences"
>the need to belong somewhere
>morals
>events regarding the religion

now.. i've been a really nice atheist to you, and now im gonna say something and maybe trigger some of you, but be as open minded as i was with you.

all the greentext above can be, and actually IS explained in advanced psychology, this is relatively a newly discovered area in science, as the brain is still not understood.
biology and psychology answer all these questions.

im sorry, this is not meant as an attack, just an opportunity for you to make a little research on the matter, if you wish.

You don't have anything to debate, cuckold. Your assertion that I'm immoral is meaningless. I equally assert you're immoral. Both of our assertions ultimately stem from unchosen and arational axioms. There is no high ground, the definition of the term switches depending entirely on the means by which it's being defined.

But the fact that you have an unchosen opinion I disagree with isn't what's cucked about you. It's that you think that having a stake in the argument to begin with is somehow wrong. That is an ultimate form of cuckoldry, it's like SJWs and manslpaining, or how they have all white males shut up on "racial issues".

You're a pathetic wriggling subperson so incompetent that you are afraid to voice even an opinion - you're unfit to live.

That's the thing, Christians are only following the proverbs they want because they agree on it. Despite the U.S. being primarily Christian its citizens eat a lot of shell fish and pork, which the Christian Holy Bible says not to do. This is defeating the purpose of the bible being the source of morals. If Christianity created morals, why are its proverbs influenced by religions that came hundreds to thousands of years before it?

take 100 sick people, let 50 going on with their life how they are used to, but let them just meet and hang out. The other 50 start reading the bible together.

If one group gets healthier over time, then there is some prove, that faith in god, or reading the bible actually helps.

i was being specific for the topic with the case of the dying man

is there a proof of objective neutrality?

and if not responding is a moral choice, can't we just grant the extra proposition that the man will default to the room with your children unless you explicitly state otherwise?

Muslim here. Atheist is scum of earth, at least christian follow ancient prophet they are just ignorant about truth. Read Qu'ran infidels. Lallauuahuaqbart

you're conflating the notion that faith has beneficial effects to the believer with the notion that faith is a means to discover what is true and what is false, the latter being the primary realm of science, the former being an accidental consequence of science

their accents carry through their writing, god is not great was such a fucking cringe-fest it was hard to finish that book.

You desire to know something of my Religion. It is the first time I have been questioned upon it: But I do not take your Curiosity amiss, and shall endeavour in a few Words to gratify it. Here is my Creed: I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we can render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental Principles of all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do, in whatever Sect I meet with them. As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his Divinity: tho' it is a Question I do not dogmatise upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble. I see no harm however in its being believed, if that Belief has the good Consequence as probably it has, of making his Doctrines more respected and better observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the Believers, in his Government of the World, with any particular Marks of his Displeasure. I shall only add respecting myself, that having experienced the Goodness of that Being, in conducting me prosperously thro' a long Life, I have no doubt of its Continuance in the next, tho' without the smallest Conceit of meriting such Goodness.
beliefnet.com/resourcelib/docs/44/Letter_from_Benjamin_Franklin_to_Ezra_Stiles_1.html

Science is not the opposite of religon. I hope you understand that just because not everything was written in the bible that it still means the bible can be true.

They will deny your claims, make sure that you research these scientific publications.

tfw you trigger (((Cred Forums)))

Reddit

Prove to me that ((IT)) does not exist.

Lol I haven't declared anything because I'm not in the debate, but I can actually attack you because you have declared something. I'm mediating and that's what the neutral position is supposed to do. If I'm free you are equally free, if I am not you are equally not. I just haven't made a choice and I can truthfully, morally and logically defend not making a choice. But it's not a declarative opinion it's a declarative absolute truth, that I can never know enough to make an actual decision that would be both moral and rational whilst maintaining truthful integrity. You can claim that I'm immoral, but I wouldn't be actually adding to a debate that has been raging for centuries and has gotten millions killed. Ad hominem all you want boy, neither you or the religious can touch me with a justified label.

every single person on earth is fundamentally, in their deep deep core, near the roots.... massive egoists.

and you cannot deny this. you cannot tell me just one single act that someone ever did that was selfless, and PURELY to the benefit of others.

your example was creating a better future. you WANT your kids to remember you, you want the recognition, the fame while you live, or at last the being acknowledged by them. If you go by your religion, you will see your kids in their bright future from heaven, which will fulfill you, again, fulfill ((( YOU )))

i know its hard and it may trigger somebody but if you take a deep breath, you actually realize people are fucking selfish egoistic pricks.

the only exception from this that i've seen, is a mother throwing her own life away for her child, and this action is also only the work of hormone overdose in the brain, and deep emotional, uncounsness control.

Burden of proof fallacy

>need to Reconquista intensifies

it might be functionally identical (given that none of this matters til we die, right?) but that doesn't mean it's identical. See

Faith is a powerful psychological instrument that can go either way.
I also witnessed patients whose health actually got worse because they believed their sickness was god punishing them and they deserved it.
Proves the power of the human psyche but not the power of god.

No because that would hypothetically invalidate a position that has to exist in order for there to be free will, which both sides need to validate their claims.

>You live and then you die for seemingly no apparent reason.
I would say that atheists don't necessarily think that there's no meaning to life, but just that there is none outside of the meaning we give it.
Like, the Earth and entire universe may not have been created just for us, but we can still find our own meaning in our existence individually.
I think just being able to experience everything that we do, and being self-aware is already pretty meaningful, and really an opportunity.

I know they came from religion, but as you say they are more or less baked into us atm, so why bother believing in some human invented deity?

>Science can explain the reason why people make decisions and how they think, it is called psychology
no, it really can't do that in absolute manner, it goes down to concepts such as free will or determinism

not that it's relevant, my example is just a metaphor

nice b8
jokes on you ! the sandniggers cannot register and log in to Cred Forums xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>christianity is g-good for the mirals of our w-white people

Pathetic. Either accept it or deny it.

t. atheist

Atheists have polled both now and in 2012 as being the biggest religious group so its no surprise.

>no it cant do that

do your research before saying silly stuff like that.

Morals are just what society agrees upon.

agnostism is the only logical thing to be

there is no evidence that gods do or do not exist, it is all speculation. It is probably caused by the root fear of death

thank you for correcting the record

yes i shouldve called myself agnostic in the OP.

Objective Neutral I think is what you mean, agnostic and gnostic hold moralistic beliefs but illogical position due to bias.

At least people who claim there's no god have a decent reason. IE: There is no evidence for the existence of a god so there probably isn't one. Same reason people can say with confidence there is no bigfoot or loch ness monster.

Claiming there is a god is 1000 times more retarded.

Morals*

tbqh with you, the only positions I've seen decent arguments for are agnosticism and deism.

Lack of evidence is not evidence there of. It's not logical.

You do not necessarily need to objectively disprove all religous deities, just be able to justify your position that you see no reason to believe something that has not been proven

Not you specifically, he means fedora sperglords that hate God because if God is real they can't deal their degeneracy whether it be abortions or jerk ingredients off to anime

Separation of church and state has nothing to do with culture and values

the state has nothing to do with why we celebrate Easter or Christmas or why weddings are held in churches with white dresses

that is such an irrelevant thing to say

I don't know.

fin.

Nice try. Bad argument. Try reddit they will enjoy your witty autism. We dont even know whats in our oceans and you say lochness monster. Fuck your parents should have aborted.

deism by definition has faith in a deity, so by definition it can't be a form of atheism. It's not functionally identical, it's a completely different belief that leads to different ideas.
then there is some prove, that faith in god, or reading the bible actually helps
depends on your population, the power of your study, your significance, if there are any confounders and bias, etc. The point being it's not that easy to prove something
can someone give me a rundown of what objective neutral is? The internet isn't coming up with anything good

Jerking off*

Damn you samsung

>no it cant do that
please don't misquote just to create a false sense of intellectual superiority, it's so reddit like manner and this is Cred Forums
>no, it really can't do that in absolute manner, it goes down to concepts such as free will or determinism

>there is no evidence of a god
>EXCEPT THERE IS a 99.9% CHANCE THAT WE'RE IN A SIMULATION!!!!
atheists are some of the stupidest people, sometimes...

The origin in the center is Objective neutrality, for some reason people don't think it exists. It does.

Lack of evidence is the only way we can try to prove the nonexistence of anything.

It's not perfect, but it's the best we've got.

It's abstaining from the debate for the sake of retaining, Absolute Truth, Morality and Logic because to declare something as not or is, is illogical and immoral if you are not all knowing.

This is bullshit. There is no such thing as "agnostic" in a real conversation. How the fuck are there people on Cred Forums still blue-pilled about this? Go back to Cred Forums with this crap.

It's still illogical and irrational to my position because you've made a statement that can only be moral and logically justifiable if you are all knowing.

You know the bible was written by 2000 IQ demigods to guide the human race away from degeneracy, right?
It's literally the only thing that's stopped us from killing eachother for the past few millennia.
>if God never said "thou shalt not kill" it would be a bloodbath and no country would make laws against murder in the first place. We'd all be like the Muslims, just raping and rioting non-stop.

So you're abstaining because you're admitting ignorance? Isn't that exactly what agnosticism is?

You act like the idea that we're in a simulation is well accepted. There was a small group that proposed the idea and maybe a few people here and there who actually believe it.

Personally I don't give a shit about that one. Whether this is a simulation or not, it might as well be real for us.

>haha i'm above it all
No, you're squirming in the dirt below.

>neither you or the religious can touch me with a justified label.
We'll touch you with a knife. The terror squads are gonna skin you alive, sissyfaggot. Your family's screams as they're roasted up in the ovens are going to music to the new order's ears. Maybe we'll burn for it, but that won't make your end any less messy, kikeslave.

Heaven is a metaphor you stupid nigger

Today. This day. You cannot perform any scientific experiment without standing upon the platform that the christian worldview provides you.

You just take it all for granted and assume it is just "natural".

I bring up seperation of church and state because religion does not influence the laws our congress make. Since the majority of our population follows pagan traditions their employers will give them days off. The government already demands that their workers should take breaks, or be allowed to. Weddings do not need to be held in churches, it's traditional. People having big fancy weddings hasn't always been, the common american during the manefest destiny period held weddings inside their home. I don't have a perfect place to live, I can tolerate people expressing their values publicly.

not being all knowing=/=ignorance

I will Reconquista you Moor

There is power in the Word of God.
There is power in the name of Jesus.
There is power in the Holy Spirit to change lives.

then all we can agree on is you don't know and neither does anyone else. Some people take heart in lack of evidence.

>what is the Crusades

I actually will be enjoying their inheritance, while you will be rooming with them indefinitely.

Christians hate the sin but not the sinner
The bible says to love thy enemy.

If you actually read my post instead of just getting butthurt over it, you'd have noticed I don't actually defend the claim that there definitely is no god.

Just that it's 1/1000 as retarded as the claim that there is one.

Just as the guy who claims bigfoot exists is 1000 times more retarded that the guy who asserts that it definitely doesn't exist.

The chances that the lack of evidence for bigfoot is a result of it being really really hard to find are lower than it just not existing.

Actual atheism is fine.
Autistic reddit fedora atheists are not.
Christianity has long roots in western civilization and is inextricably tied to our culture.
Without Christianity we will be subverted by Islam.

Those are my beliefs. If I could believe I would, but I just don't. I used to try for my family's sake. Now I just pretend. I can't see evidence of a God. As long as Christianity stays opposed to shitslam I have no problem with it.

>every single person on earth is fundamentally, in their deep deep core, near the roots.... massive egoists.
That's quite the statement, considering it covers billions of people and stretches back tens of thousands of years, maybe even longer. I won't deny a lot of people are though.

>and you cannot deny this. you cannot tell me just one single act that someone ever did that was selfless, and PURELY to the benefit of others.
I would say that you can't prove it either.

>you WANT your kids to remember you, you want the recognition, the fame while you live, or at last the being acknowledged by them.
And you WANT to make assumptions. Zing. Also, who's to say there haven't been people who made sacrifices for others, even if they would never been known for those?

>If you go by your religion, you will see your kids in their bright future from heaven, which will fulfill you, again, fulfill ((( YOU )))
I do agree though that most people will do stuff for others because they also benefit from it themselves in some way, such as a level of personal satisfaction.

In your other post, you talked about fighting ((selflessly)) for a higher cause, which appears to be a higher power/faith. Your statements also apply to those who would do things in the name of their faith, as they would get their own level of satisfaction out of it, but in this case, for a more supernatural reason. For example, it's the same as a person who would give their life for their child, but in this case, a God.

Agnosticism is the only answer in this day and age, when people struggle to find a greater meaning in a world that is slowly defying and perverting what most people see as right and the daily drudgery presses down on the and relying on your fellow man is a foolish decision, when scientists struggle to explain and quantify something as ethereal as time when outside of our tiny little bubble of existence that is the Sol System and yet can declare things even more abstract as impossible.

When we haven't even really fully explored and mastered our own understanding of the depths of the rock we have been on for untold millions of years and yet can claim to have a higher understanding of beings and existences that by their very nature are beyond human perception.

Shit's whack and pushed by people with an inflated sense of ego, yo.

God did that, not Christians. You have a problem with God, which means you have a very large problem.

The New Testament also condemns homosexuality as a wicked abomination before God, and its practitioners hellbound.

No because Objective neutrality also accounts for Bias, which it is possible to rationalize and morally imply that it's unjustifiable to be biased whilst actually being unbiased about this subject. Again if we have free will it's possible to not be bias.

>Hey, do you think we should let mass refugees in?
>Uhm... I'm agnostic on that one, ask the next guy

kek

"Give me one creation miracle, and I can try to explain the rest."

It doesn't work like that dude. Human observation and imagination are useless in determining the true cause of the universe.

Actually, somepeople would argue that the fact that I ha en't made a statement and contributed to a debate that has killed millions is very moral and logical. Just because my position gives the impression that it's a vanity stunt doesn't justify your projections ad hominem.

>Was Christian

Jumbo shrimp. Military intelligence.

AYE! I got a guy over here that knows god.

They were saracens, it's different.
>deus vulted it anyways

And I'll still be more of an individual than you ever will be with that mindset. Your nothing but a drone belonging to a hive mind. If you die, no one gives a shit.

in the modern day, today, this day, the humanity is advanced enough in sociality, morality and basic human rights that we (((could))) go without religion..

im not saying it is granted, i very well know that christianity brought us here.

kys yourself

I read greater King. Anyhow if the Hubble Telescope shows us the past who can say what it looks like now. Being a species in a vast Universe doesnt condone your finite knowledge to existence. You only see what you know and feel. Your mind cant sustain the precognition of dimensions and reality. So you see yourself in the mirror shave shit shower and believe only what you know. Atheism is for mere intellectual autists. Saw a video of my partially brain dead best friend today. Picture of Christ behind his bed all he could do was look at him and beg for mercy as he wears diapers and his parents take care of him daily. The Holy Spirit is real but he doesnt seek everyone only the Worthy the rest have to seek him. What a fucked up day. Good luck Atheism. Your soul goes no where.

Atheists are just preachy assholes
I don't believe in god
But most atheists think all religions are equally bad
I see Christians as a useful ally against Muslims
So I call myself a Christian even though I don't believe in god
It's about identity
Atheists are just trying to undermine any sense of group identity

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!

Actually I cannot say that we lack evidence either, do you see what I mean. I have to be unknowing for those prerequisites to actually exist, but I would be omniscient. That's not possible for me. Infinite regression in that statement implies that its a factor of making a decision on wether or not God is real, for us it's infinite regression. Also I find that you may agree with me simply for not contributing to a notorious longing debate that has killed millions, and also have not emboldened the ignorance and arrogance of the world. It's not impossible to take a neutral position, the people who attack you are being illogical and simply don't care about it, so they use force to fear you into picking a side. I'm not scared of it, it's predictable as hell.

yes exactly, that belief in god is their way of
>personal satisfaction
as you said, because they believe doing this will cleanse them, or otherwise save them from hell. they believe in the greater good, and are afraid of hell. the still have some sort of personal satisfaction from this. and the creators of the bible knew this.

As a philosophical stance on the possible existence of metaphysical entities, atheism is respectable.

A strange movement of atheism has sprung up though, which emphasizes debating with people over incredibly petty things, and getting off on putting other people down. This has ended up making atheism a great cover for anti social spergs to argue with others ,with the end goal of them getting off on being "intellectually superior", while at the same time driving people away from them since no one likes an asshole constantly putting them down.

If God Exist why the fuck did he make flies? For maggots in early days before medicine they could help in keep ppl alive by eating dead tissue.

that... is a valid point. i have no further arguments.
wew lad you actually got me thinking here.

>the only reason i call myself atheist is because I find more sense in science

Well there is some nonsense to begin with.

Atheism is not scientific at all. In fact the singularity supports everything Roman Catholic theologians said in the 13th century.

Even a moderately thinking scientist may be agnostic but only a moron is an atheist.

Causality. Prime mover. Casual chain ending in beginning of time. Containment of conditional logic of causality in an entity outside time. Scientific validation of singularity. Proof of theism. Proof of timeless nature o prime mover.

Probability of prime mover seeking to communicate within current civilization paradigms.

Probability of other sentient beings being created during casual chain prior to man.

I can tolerate an agnostic as a potentially thinking person but atheism is a pure bleak faith based pile of nonsense exported by marxist leninists to subvert morally coherent societies so they could establish oligarchies and define morality to be whatever suited them, including grotesque contempt for the value of life.

These days it is the default postion o attention whoring teens who believe (and the operative word IS believe) they are clever.

You don't seem to understand that if it's illogical and immoral it doesn't matter where you guys believe you are on the scale, your both wrong when it comes to the 3 controllers you instigate that support your arguements. Because your not omniscient. No one wins and it is simply stupid to contribute to something that is clearly beyond reach of any mortal man.

so what I'm getting is that to follow objective neutrality is to be a blank slate and do nothing

this thread is proof atheists have a group identity. we just don't get together until it's time to argue you fools

i made a mistake, should've written agnostic.

I dont mind agnostics at least they prefer the high road on thought. Understanding human limits and progress at the current falsehood of time.

You whine about the deaths of millions as if that's some kind of moral problem. More than several millions of people deserve to die, kikeslave, and you're one of them.

Get the fuck back to alokal.eu

The only thing that can comprehend God and is God. Remember we choose sentience and foreknowledge of death, which animals do not suffer from. In doing so we corrupted our state of being and creation and all misery arose from that. The best we can do is validate any in paradigm communications like the beatitudes and follow the advise.

>atheism is a pure bleak faith based pile of nonsense exported by marxist leninists to subvert morally coherent societies

See this is where you're talking absolute bullshit and where you show you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Atheism is a faith? Are you serious? Do you understand what the a-prefix means? It means I don't buy your bollocks idea until you show convincing evidence. It's a LACK of faith or belief.

Also your maxist garbage is just gay and childish. You can't honestly be this retarded to think atheism is something marx or lenin invented.

>The only thing that can comprehend God and is God

Nice escape hatch. Meaningless crap.

Deism is fucking awesome. Too bad God pussied out after he killed all the degenerates. Could use some help here and now.

For the sake of being Moral, not contributing to a discussion that has murdered millions to seek the truth,
For the sake of being logical, not instigating that me belief is correct when it wouldn't be consistent unless I was all knowing,
For the sake of absolute Truth, what it is possible to know, I know for I think therefore I am,

It's a noble choice in my opinion, and like I said its morally, logically and truthfully defensible. I mean it's sort of George Carlin's "spectator" comment.

Atheism isn't a strong enough group identity to be useful to the survival of culture. Christianity is.

Fair enough.

Ponder this

Causality. Prime mover. Casual chain ending in beginning of time. Containment of conditional logic of causality in an entity outside time. Scientific validation of singularity. Proof of theism. Proof of timeless nature o prime mover.

Probability of prime mover seeking to communicate within current civilization paradigms.

Probability of other sentient beings being created during casual chain prior to man.

Then read the beatitudes are observe how contrary to empirically observed human behaviorism they are in contemporary and prior societies.

Daily reminder that Catholics are cucks

Denying the God they know exists is pretty absurd, I don't hate them, they just need help

Well it must be true if you said it potato

>You whine about the deaths of millions as if that's some kind of moral problem. More than several millions of people deserve to die, kikeslave, and you're one of them.

So edgy. Just defense never validates killing children. Go home.

Ya then why have prophets existed. Brilliance thousands of years ago? God works thru signs and spirits. Keep it up and you get another potato famine. Btw God hates faggots and greed more then anything.

Fuck your gay shit. This shit right here:

Leviticus 20:9 If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.

You who believe in unfalsifiable ideas with such passion are the ones who need help m8

Cucks like you always preach about how the evil Jews and others subvert your culture and force you to do this and that, yet you'd willingly lie to your own culture to "preserve" it. I'd rather fight the Islamic hordes with other atheists than have to lie to people about how Christianity is the "truth" to use it as a safeguard. This is the problem with you "cultural" Christians aka atheists, you're all spineless little roaches. You claim to want to keep the Christian culture, yet you'd lie about it, which sort of contradicts the whole Christian culture in the first place. This is pathetic on another level. Keep the religion or abandon it for good, but don't twist it and try to "use" it in a "positive" way to lie to your own folk. That's what Jews do.

There is no definitive proof of the absence of God/Gods, so to deny it instead of use it as moral leverage to your advantage is stupid.

Typing 'meaningless crap' in in fact meaningless crap.

If you are an entity containing absolute conditional logic outside of time men are de facto incapable of comprehending as we view everything from the finite perspective. Thus we cannot comprehend the mind of God.

If you are stupid it is neither my fault or Gods because as your post illustrates you choose to be that way.

For something to be false, knowledge and truth must exist, truth presuposes God

Excuse me? How is this relevant to neutrality?

In propositional logic, the material conditional states that p-->q is only false if q is false and p is true. Until every p ---> God statement is shown false or God is shown to be an impossible entity, atheism is a belief.

Is this some shitty explanation of pascal's wager or what?

you should read my other discussion with another user, here
>Human observation and imagination are useless in determining the true cause of the universe.

but back to you, about the prime mover wanting to communicate with the current civilization

here is what i think is pretty wrong with how we percieve ourselves.. we are NOT that special. there are mora planets in the observable universe than people on earth.. by far.

what would make (((us))) special ? why we ?

people just have this way of thinking and putting everything next to human beliefs. even the aliens in our movies are humanoid like.. sometimes.

Well it sure did not work in the USSR britbong.

My thoughts most likely yes.

No that pope is another antichrist. Sorry to inform, but their are many. God despises the current Pope.

>yes exactly, that belief in god is their way of
>>personal satisfaction
So we agree on that part. The point I'm making is that there's no difference in "selflessness" between a person dying for their child (who may be an atheist), compared to a person dying for their God (a theist), especially if in both situations the person gets a level of personal satisfaction out of that action.
Which is why I disagreed with the original statement:
>also, fighting (((Selflessly))) for a higher cause is... poetic and beutiful.
>>something we atheist will never achieve, sadly.

I can personally deal with not being degenerate. I don't do all that stuffs anyway. But i just can't really believe in God, the religion i was raised with is just shit and unfair, christianity/catholicism doesn't make sense. Or maybe it is, but i just can't into it, i just can't into a new religion, i can't focus/control my mind to believe/be submitted in something.

lmao oh dear we have a presuppositionalist

what evidence do you have that truth presupposes god?

>If you are an entity containing absolute conditional logic outside of time men are de facto incapable of comprehending as we view everything from the finite perspective

But if you're an invisible stateless and timeless hyper tranny it would be impossible and incomprehensible to measure its gender.

No, the definition of atheism is the lack of a belief. You are retarded leaf.

No. He's saying use it to get others to behave the way you want them to. Pascal'a wager is about getting into Heaven

Atheists are almost always ignorant, entitled activists who have never studied theology or history in a serious way, but honestly expect to erase a sophisticated global culture instantly. So-called anti-science conservatives are nowhere near as ignorant or presumptuous.

Because without God, you can't know anything to be true

I'm agnostic, but I respect what Christianity does cultural (to a degree, I really hate it's ultimately self destructive altruism-at-all-cost stance)

So objective neutrality = claiming absolute truth is wrong, thinking that your belief is correct is wrong, contributing to moral discussions is wrong? Is that the general gist?

Elaborate

>theist being arrogant and thinking their intelligence is superior
Wew lad
You might want to get a fedora

We killed each other long before the era of religion but we learned from trial and error. That's literally how we learned moral

Including your statement?

>literal guidebook on how to be an alright person
So many people could use it. Personally I'm not religious anymore. But the benefits of a little belief definitely outweigh the cons of zealous belief

Yes,

It's what the bible says, not my opinion

"A lack of belief"
That is called not believing in something.
That is a belief in itself.
Namely , if you "lack belief" in P, then you believe not P.

hmh.. okay i understand and accept it.

however in my original statement, i didnt write it out well enough but i had in mind the egoistic behaviour of some atheists.. like, i can easily see myself using someone else for my own personal gain.. i know its immoral, bad, etc. but my disbelief in God and the somewhat-depressing realization that life is just another random thing that happened .. it gets to a man.

and what i was trying to capture is that i envy you really.. i want my life to have a meaning, i want to do selfless things and believe that what i do has more to it just than one lifetime.

but i got to the point where what the bible of other religious books give, even budhism which i really like, give too little explanation.. i could just follow one religion. but i would never feel like i found my peace really..

Nice circular logic sunshine

The Good Jews who probably dont exist anymore. Were referring to Satanic Curses. People who wish bad things upon thy parents. An eye for an eye also written in Scripture. Child sacrifice also prevalent, but never fulfilled. CHRIST was right those who claim to be Jews are not. They are heathens using ancient literature to take over israel and garner billions in free subsidy. Ashkenazi Jews are a real tribe. The rest have lied there way into money and free land.

I'm open to the possibility of god(s), but most religions are silly and absurd. No amount of fedora memes will make Christianity look sensible.

I don't like the smugness, arrogance, and dogmatic liberalism of Atheists, and I don't like my beliefs mocked by psuedo-scientist hacks like Sam Harris, and Neil Degrasse Styson who roleplay as philosophers.

We don't know whether or not God exists. I happen to think it's more likely that he does. You are welcome to disagree with me but don't be a smug asshole about it

That's how I feel about atheists. The intolerable smugness of it kills me. You can't have a respectable discussion with them because their head is so far up their as with how "intellegent" they are.

I know this isn't all atheists, or probably even the majority of atheists, but you guys know damn well who I'm talking about.

I worked in a children's hospital for 5 years. I know for a fact that there either is no God, or if God does exist he doesn't deserve to be worshipped. It has nothing to do with intelligence or arrogance.

Atheists believe humans came from rocks, and that humans are all one universal race. So it's impossible for an atheist to be a nationalist or anything of the sort.

Cred Forums doesn't dislike atheists. Most of its users are atheists.
The autismal Christianity threads are a combination of a loud and stupid minority and atheist shitposters.

Is it true that my argument is circular?

Here is the problem with you stormfag, "My God has a bigger dick than your God. (Adding further to that statement.) literally only to appease a hive mentality and ego so that I feel better about myself. So despite is not being omniscient I'm going to ignorantly and naively assume that I'm correct and kill people. I'm going to exert energy for no reason accept for the sake of me. (Hmmm that's a bit, selfish don't you think?)

>The whole world is built "screw children"
Someone call the pope

That's a terrible argument, because unlike our situation with the rock we know its origin of motion, and that whole paragraph is based on that knowledge and having that knowledge.

For us we don't know, so it's idiotic to arbitrary take a stance (believing in a god).

Believing in absurdity astounds the preponderance of finding Wisdom and Knowledge. Where little is left for the soulless children.

>what would make (((us))) special ? why we ?
>people just have this way of thinking and putting everything next to human beliefs. even the aliens in our movies are humanoid like.. sometimes.

i genuinely believe the we are all equal in universe meme is bull
we are created in God's image, made to watch over his kingdom and bring love to all his creation

just the fact that quantum states depend on observation is fascinating roof that observer is not irrelevant

So bad things happening to children are the reason you are opposed to God, if God created everything, does he not have the right to do with it as he pleases

I think you're confusing the meaning of the word belief. Belief in this case specifically refers to faith. Atheism = lack of faith in god/gods. To say atheism is a faith is like saying not playing football is a sport.

>everyone who died in the Bible was a good person who dindu nuffin
Nice job looking at one half baked image, doing no parallel research, and letting it change your entire life.
I have a great deal on snake oil for you to check out, just look at my image then buy, buy, buy.

>After years of lurking I've come to the realization that Cred Forums really dislikes atheists
Cred Forums dislikes left-wingers, and most atheists are left-wing.

Just because someone is an atheist, it doesn't mean that the person can't uphold the traditional values mentioned in the bible, Christianism is the foundation of western society after all, to reject Christianism would be to reject our own identity and culture.

I've had this discussion with left-wing atheists multiple times, and they always end up telling me that I'm not a "real atheist" (true scotman fallacy).

To be honest, you're either an atheist that identifies as a cultural christian (good atheist) or a butthurt left-wing atheist that hates society.

So youre admiting that religion is a con/scam?

No, the discussions themselves are deemed immoral because their being created by statements from finite beings which also happen to being killing people. Absolute Truth isn't wrong, neutrality will dissolve when God declares an irrefutable statement to prove omniscience, and he can get us to understand if he exists because he's supposed to be all powerful and have the capability of being both logical and illogical, if that's referenced right (going off of what believers say about God.)
And logically it's a rational position that doesn't ignorantly assume its dominance based on no evidence.

not only rocks, but stars too! woah. I guess the sun should be president. I'll just forget where I was born and what I learned.

More people need to die than are even in the wrong. We're going to cut out the fat, and in the process, even the innocent are going to be sacrificed, but it will still be the right decision because any other choice is suicide.

But with you, faggot, I'll be glad to pull the trigger.

Absurd is an opinion, what wisdom and knowledge can you find in fairytales? I prefer to focus on what we can test

With the exception of that white dude who shot those 10 blacks at that black church in the south, show me at least 10 other examples (since you said "decent amount") of christians not tolerating homosexuality.

Again, words have definitions. "Tolerate" means you allow something regardless of your feelings towards it.

To be intolerant literally means to "stop" the thing you're against.

"Intolerant" and "Tolerant" are just another set of words the Far left decided to make new definitions for.

Other examples include:
>Homophobic
To be "phobic" of homosexuals means to have excruciating levels of discomfort and anxiety around gay people. A "phobia" is defined as "an irrational fear".

True homophobia would be someone who is genuinely terrified that their waiter at a restaurant is going to ass-fuck them simply because that waiter is wearing a rainbow pin or otherwise presents themselves as gay.

Other terms the left has decided to redefine:

"Bigot"
"Racist"
"Sexist"
"Xenophobic"

A vast majority of christians are able to stand in line at the grocery store next to muslims, transexuals, black people, or women and NOT fight them, try to get them kicked out, or otherwise raise a commotion.

That is literally the definition of tolerance.

You only read half of what I said. Either God doesn't exist, or if he does he isn't worthy of worship. God absolutely has the right to create innocent children and slowly torture them to death with cancer over the course of a year. But that makes him a despicable creature and no sane human being should revere him.

If your not omniscient you cannot possible say wether or not something is right or wrong. How ever we can apply that label to others outside of neutrality because they have made statements that are intact propegated by non omniscient beings.

>tfw to entilegent for athiesm

Go home neckbeard you dont realize the Kingdom of Heaven is made of Diamonds. Why do you think you peasants still exist? If only the strong survive why are there so many limp wristed faggots still walking the Earth. Being used for Wealth. Gold is for Jews Diamonds are for Gods.

That's doublethink. No faith is not a belief.

>yfw you figure out that the true red pill is atheistic fascism

Really proving my point as well as what religious people think of you. What ever, this isn't even as hominem, it's not even relevant to the subject anymore.

I read it, and your position fits the description of the non believer in the Christian worldview, so as a I understand your position as a former professing atheist

>Cultural Christian
That's totally me! As an atheist nothing bums me out more than negative butt-hurt edge-lord atheists

Taking on the label "atheist" is defining yourself in opposition to something you don't believe exists, which doesn't make sense. Even if you reject a specific definition of god that "exists" through its believers, you still validate that definition by saying "I am an atheist." It conveys info quickly but oversimplifies the concept of god to one version, dismissing alternative definitions that may encompass your beliefs.

Impeccable post. Made the atheists lose at their own game.

*Recent examples

Since my argument was that CURRENTLY christians are tolerant.

God exists is a claim.
You either believe a claim, deny a claim, or are allowed to be unsure of a claim until more evidence presents itself depending on what framework of logic you're working in.

when i was younger, in my teens and i studied about all the physics and shit, there always were some cracks in it that i just couldnt fill... in some form these cracks are where my own "religion" is ... im not saying its "a god" or THE god...

you seem to know about superposition in quantum physics, so consider this.

the real world derives from the quantum world, basically a bunch of random chaotic stuff make up something stable and functioning. it just works. this is #1

then from biology, we were taught that the first life could easily form in the deep oceans, there are also patterns on how to make life, the most basic microorganisms... But i never understood the "why" behind it.

a rock, is a rock. and always will stay a rock. but life persists, and has a driving force, sharing of its DNA, but why the fuck would something (((((((( want )))))) to persist ? this is #2

so #1,2 are the "cracks" where i could probably fit a godly being in, but not in the sence as christianity describes.. my "god" would be purely mathematical, not something that creates, but something that just.. moves. idk if it sounds crazy, it is really different from typical religions.

If you make a statement in this debate, it's illogical and immoral unless your omniscient. This is why I'm absolutely neutral. Both sides are mirrors with 1 difference, belief or disbelief in no evidence. Both unjustified and both illogical.

He's right. The stories must be true

The only problem is we cannot possibly know if it exists. There is nothing preventing an invisible stateless nigga from raping you in your sleep.

The quantum physics states arguments are purely based around measurement issues.

In order to measure particles the size studied in quantum physics you usually use particles which have a small, but noticable effect, on the qunatum states of the measured object.

What this really equates to is that we cannot observe/measure the smallest particles without influencing them using measurement techniques.

Analagously if you wanted to detect the presence of a football you could fire a tennis ball at it. What this would result in is the tennis ball rebounding from the football but also imparting energy to the football, meaning it cannot be measured in its' original state.

The problem is not they are just atheist, but they arrogant, degenerate, pretentious, and insult anyone who does follow a religion.

But those who follow a religion DO need insulting, just like people who believe the earth is flat and who are furries need insulting. Why so thin skin faggot?

Except Islam

Right? What are you getting at

80% of the planet is religious.

You are a small minority. Why are you so smug about your opinion?

That's a 5th grade level fallacy.

>You are a small minority. Why are you so smug about your opinion?

Because being a sheep doesn't make it right. I don't give a fuck if 80% of the world is anything, why should that matter?

>even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth - gandhi

hey man you left your koolaid over here

>however in my original statement, i didnt write it out well enough but i had in mind the egoistic behaviour of some atheists.. like, i can easily see myself using someone else for my own personal gain.. i know its immoral, bad, etc. but my disbelief in God and the somewhat-depressing realization that life is just another random thing that happened .. it gets to a man.
Fair enough. Just because it was random doesn't mean that it's bad that it happened. I would say from an atheist's point of view, it's pretty amazing that we randomly got the chance to be able to experience all of this. Like I said in a previous post, I see it as an opportunity.

>and what i was trying to capture is that i envy you really.. i want my life to have a meaning
Welp, everyone is different and value different things/think differently. I would just think about comparing your life to not having been able to experience it at all, and see what exactly makes you thankful and happy that you are alive. I would then say those things have meaning, at least to you.

>i want to do selfless things and believe that what i do has more to it just than one lifetime.
Oh trust me, I haven't really done anything selfless heh. That said, I don't have any kids, and don't know if I want any.
Anyway, there are things you can obviously do that would outlast a single lifetime, such as trying to leave in impact, no matter how small, on the world.

>i could just follow one religion. but i would never feel like i found my peace really..
Maybe because deep down inside you wouldn't fully believe it?

Religion/atheism is blue-pilled af and lacks any sort of free thought. Spirituality through meditation is the one true redpill in all of us that can be taken, you just need to find it. Unfortunately, we've gotten very much away from this practice the past few centuries and are making a mess of things. The answers are literally inside and all around you, not written in some dogmatic 500 page book of stories. When you become in touch with your true self, outside of the conditioned physical body and ego, understanding of life comes natural and happiness blossoms. The thought of there being no God is simply inconceivable. This consciousness you've welcomed in continues to evolve through life and can be thought of as the next step of human evolution.

For me I ve come to view science as a religion itself, it has all the same earmarks of a religion. It bothers me a little that an Athiest clings so pridefully to a field where one discovery, one experiment can erase all that you believe in

Assuming you agree that you either believe, dont believe, or are unsure about a claim, this "lack of belief" definition of atheism is absurd. Atheism takes the position "god does not exist". Until it is proven undeniably that god cannot exist in the same way 1=/=0 has been proven, it is a belief in the negative of "god exists".

I actually want some serious Cred Forums opinions and responses on this, because I've asked the people I know IRL this question and I always get the same answer, "God works in mysterious ways" which doesn't satisfy me at all.

God is an eternal all powerful being. He creates the mortal universe and he puts the human race in that universe, then he gives the humans free will. He also creates a perfect version of the mortal universe, where everything is paradise at all times, and he calls it Heaven. The humans are then forced to struggle through life in the mortal universe, and if they are able to succeed in life, be good to their neighbors, and follow the Word of God all while maintaining their free will, they are rewarded with an entrance to Heaven. Anyone whose will is not strong enough, who let their free will turn them into bad people or disobey god, they are doomed for the rest of eternity and don't get into Heaven.

So my question is, why didn't God just make the mortal universe perfect from the start? Why bother with creating Heaven? Just make everything Heaven. At this point, it's always the response "life would be boring and meaningless if everything was great at all times and we had no free will" but that's exactly what Heaven is! So why did God go through the effort of creating flawed humans in a flawed universe just to send some of them to their doom and some of them to eternal paradise? "God works in mysterious ways" is the only answer I get every time.

It sounds to me like God is just an asshole who got bored one day and decided he would make a world full of humans living, suffering, and dying just to keep him entertained.

>For me I ve come to view science as a religion itself

Ah this old cliche. You can idolise science in a religious way, but that doesn't make science a religion.

> It bothers me a little that an Athiest clings so pridefully to a field where one discovery, one experiment can erase all that you believe in

Yeah because thinking the same old thing that's been disproven is such a good way to learn. Fucking moron.

Damn you guys have it all figured out. Must be nice to be so much more intelligent than us religious sheep.

Must be nice to so superior to everyone. Thanks for enlightening me with your intellect.

It is most certainly not absurd to believe no god exists, for there is no convincing evidence and the very idea itself is unfalsifiable.

Until it's proven that there are no magic pink unicorns with cocks as horns, it is absurd to say they don't exist, right?

To an extent this is true, essentially a belief in general patterns in nature and the ability to predict and understand nature using a constructed hypothetical model.
It provides a useful framework for a model of how the world works but, like any model, must be taken with caveats.

As a geologist it is rather exciting when new discoveries and theories pop up. I take pride in the methods which allow humanity to discover more about the world in which we live.

"Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."
God, assuming that he's real, is a massive crybaby spoiled child, and that's directly from the bible.
>religibaby can only respond with memes and attempting to ridicule people less retarded than him

well i can totally relate to that, i was a pretty hard core atheist in my teens and early 20s and obsessed with physics

both of your examples are brain teasing, for me it was also gravitational waves (just the fact that for example your own gravitational pull affects alpha centauri although in infinitesimally small way) and quantum entanglement which is even more fascinating effect over distance

so one can look at the universe and say, oh that's all? where's the proof of god. or say man, this is so amazing, whatever created this existence should be called a god

but i really discovered god in my personal thought, as a relation to the world and existence i grew up with, and talking with other people i got pretty sure knowledge of god is built into us, hence all the religions

>Must be nice to so superior to everyone. Thanks for enlightening me with your intellect.

No problem mate, anytime.

>Welp, everyone is different and value different things/think differently. I would just think about comparing your life to not having been able to experience it at all, and see what exactly makes you thankful and happy that you are alive. I would then say those things have meaning, at least to you.

not being born at all, being born and then dying, being born, experiencing a little, then die, it really is the same.. i have a different view on the "experience" now because i am alive, but i wouldnt know if i wouldnt, and i wont know when im dead. its just the magic of the moment i would say

>Maybe because deep down inside you wouldn't fully believe it?

yes. thats the point

no worries, drink up!

Again, you're not understanding the the use of the word belief. Belief specifically refers to faith in this case, not a general thought process.

>Because most atheists act like
Judging the man, ignoring the argument

Please see picture in

>All atheists are bluepilled liberal Jew puppets
I hate Judaism and Islam more than I hate Christianity. I simply have more experience with Christianity than the other religions because I've lived in the USA my entire life, so I rarely the get the chance to debate over other religions.

i think the best kind of any religion is a man who takes the teachings of his religion as a metaphor for life itself.

>the real world derives from the quantum world, basically a bunch of random chaotic stuff make up something stable and functioning. it just works. this is #1

Just because our brains haven't evolved to understand this doesn't mean there's anything spooky going on.

>a rock, is a rock. and always will stay a rock. but life persists, and has a driving force, sharing of its DNA, but why the fuck would something (((((((( want )))))) to persist ? this is #2

What do you mean, "want"? Life didn't ask to happen. By definition something that still exists has managed to stay existing. You can say the same for anything.

ok this is the first time i ever heard of a measurement issues, do you have any link confirming this because i remember professor explicitly stating that black boxes (measurement apparatus) do not interfere with measurement results (and he was quite big on his quantum physics)