Could nationalism work without authoritarianism ?

Civic nationalism = "we are definied by our shared civic values"
Ethnic nationalism = "we are definied genetically, and by our shared history"

I personally divide patriotism as loving the idea of your country and nationalism as loving your country as it is. Patriotism is small-minded HURR DURR America is the best country in the world without fault and nobody does anything better than us, and it happens because people fall in love with the ideal version of America that they create in their mind. A patriot will never acknowledge the problems, weaknesses, and failures of his country - not just his state, but his fellow countryment. A nationalist understands and accepts the flaws of his nation, and loves it anyway - perhaps all the more for the imperfections, and it's a purer love.

Patriot = love the ideal country
Nationalist = love the actual country

Depends what you mean by "Nationalism", but yes, it can work.

I was just on /his/ and we discussed globalism. Morality and property are not some vague philosophy; they're forms of communication, like language. When a language gets so big, you can tell roughly where a person lives just by the way they use that language. Hippies, for example, talk ill of the rich and praise the poor, and you'd notice that in their language. The evolution of Proto-Indo-European probably led to the German word "house" to be the Latin word for "Cave" (Just an example), but there are many real examples of this in language. The state, like a lingua franca, reflects a form of communication that extends beyond natural borders; and like any big language, it has its difficulties maintaining its "property" over a people who don't recognize their claim. This is why states separate, not because of a lack of communication, but because there's no reason to communicate.

This leads to natural human separation, be it racial, religious, ethnic, linguistic; it's not about communication but about honour and appreciation between people. The Americans tried many times to educate the Indian, and many indians became educated, but tore off their clothes to live with their own kind.

You'd need a nationalism that reflects nature, not statehood, or "lingua franca' or "objective morality".. You need a nationalism that serves the communication, not a nationalism that changes it.

Libertarian capitalism works perfectly in america right now

I think you have it mixed up, friend

>Libertarian capitalism works perfectly in america right now

Not trying to defend Trumbo or good night and good luck, aince I'm no commie, but Mcartism pretty much debunks what you just said.
I know Joseph Mcarthy was fundamentally right, hollywood was (and still is) subversive and there shouldn't be a place for a comunist party in any democracy that wants to be taken seriously, but there is no way it wasn't authoritary. It is ok though, looking in hindsight, since it had to be done.

>america right now isn't better than what it used to be
>america right now isn't the most properous country in the world with the largest number of immigration
>everyone wants to move to america everyone tries to act and look america
>everyone knows american slang. Who the fuck knows french or russian slang ?
Homogenousity is not how you determine a country's prosperity, friend

>SAVE ME FROM THE NOTHING I'VE BECOME

all inferior to based enlightened racial nationalism

I fucked up my green text there. The two last green text wasn't supposed to be green texted

What is Japan
What is Korea
What is Poland
What is UK post Brexit

Secondly, this nationalism should NEVER be represented as a modern state, and it shouldn't operate on statist values. A dictionary, for example, serves to educate a people on a proper way to speak the language, so language can be utilized for individual gain. A state comes with its own diction-ary that says who can be considered a citizen of that state. When you base citizenship on race, and you allow "white people" of any state to join, it doesn't serve any benefit to the people, because not all white people have the same values or experiences.

I believe a true nationalism is best served in a feudal society much like the Early European or Japanese, because it reflects nature as it has been on every civilized continent. It's only when we decide to have a utilitarian state, that we go beyond out borders. In fact, progressivism is defined by its inclusiveness and idealism. Idealism is stupid.

Imperfection and inconvenience are the natural lot of mortals. There should be no room for discontent neither for despair.

-Ieyasu Tokugawa

As long as it doesn't happen in america, i don't give a crap.

wherever whites exist the government must act to protect them

>What is Japan
seems to be pretty authoritarian from its culture

>Korea
is Korea even patriotic?

>Poland
I doubt democracy is embedded that much in culture, slavs used to have authority

>What is UK post Brexit
Keep calm and carry on

i'd be surprised if you're not 17

Not effectively.

There is only authority and culture, it would have to be cultural nationalism.

It would require people signalling how nationalist they are.

sad to be so narrow minded

You're sucking off a corpse, lolbertarian.

America is riding the coattails of the economic foundations laid in the post-War era. Neoliberalism is destroying the US.

I think that all forms of political identity start with the individual and his view of human nature and history (which are in turn unconsciously and consciously shaped by his relationships, experiences, and upbringing).
First of all we start with the fact that the gods are dead, God is dead, and we're floating in a sea of valueless affirmation of whatever feels good, for that particular moment. We begin to feel uncomfortable with that fact and latch on to whatever artifact of ideology makes us feel more at home with ourselves and our place in the world. We can then see ourselves as part of a greater whole (e.g. the working class, the white race, the enlightened warriors of social justice, Australians, Anglos, Americans etc) and develop a collective identity. Of course this identity is still very fragile and volatile when not reinforced by real-world relationships and implicit connections.
Thus the bombasity of online identity politics.

It does in Israel, Korea, Japan, etc. So, yes.

Absolutely.
We're fiercely nationalistic and pro-Estonian interests to the point where the slavs here can't stop whining about fascism and muh 6 million despite the fact that the country is a free and open democracy.

A heavy hand is only needed if the state is in danger. Liberty is a better option for peace time.

>No political system works without authoritarianism.
pretty much this.
The very existance of a State requires a certain amount of authoritarism, in order for it to work. There's got to be a amount of necessary cohercive force, otherwise we should all accept the logic behind the free citizen argument.

If you love your ideal country, then you WILL acknowledge you current government deffects, as they stray from the original founding values of your nation. This is a patriot.
A nationalist is just I BUY FORD 'CAUSE I SUPPORT AMERICA THOSE JAPS CAN KISS MY ASS.
The former is what all citizens should aim for, the later is just retarded

This is what i'm thinking. You can't put the national love deep in people's mind without forcing it. If you're still exposed to other culture, still uses foreign products, it would be really hard to be nationalistic unless you're driven by insecurity or inferiority complex.

Worldly love/empathy is mature

>Could nationalism work without authoritarianism ?

Yes.

If the identites of a nation were unified.

But thanks to globalism/multiculturalism there is no unity. Which is exactly what (((they))) want. Multiculturalism destroys a nations ability to be unified and its a pretext to a single world government.

This isn't even tin foil infowar shit...I mean just look around. If you can't recognize this for what it is you're in denial.

>The former is what all citizens should aim for, the later is just retarded

Real life example of this:
>Ancient greeks were a beacon of civilization and scientific progress
>get ROACH'D
>now, the witless shitskins that roam the desecrated ruins of the old Greeks' once great cities thump their chest and holler about the achievements of people scarcely their kinsmen whenever someone points out their own failings

Civic nationalism/patriotism is a joke - a mudblood making himself part of a successful nation does not magically cure him of the barbarism innate to his ethnic kind.

Where the fuck do you live? Why is your flag listed as

>Unknown

Is this some Taured shit or something.

Nationalist countries right now aren't rich and prosper so yeah.

only in a homogenious country

Huh I don't get this comment

>Not rich

>And prosper

?

He probably meant prosperous.

Then why are more ethnically homogenous countries in the West more prosperous than multiethnic ones?

Patriotism is the love of country. Nationalism is the love of nationality.

Name nationalist countries and compare them to canada or france or usa.

Canada, France and the US were all nationalist at some point, and built up their respective countries to great heights of success. Compare the state of these countries 50 or so years ago to the state they're in now.

>Then why are more ethnically homogenous countries in the West more prosperous than multiethnic ones?
Like who ?

Well take Europe. And take America.

They have an ethnic component to them. Neither do any more, but in their founding and in their establishment they did.

Niggers didn't draft the constitutions, plan and guide the wars, Build the institutions. None of it. They were marginal in history and despite every effort to change that at the educational/social level, its just the truth.

Whats happening now is people are using victim identity as something "cool". Its like victim identity has become the new pop-culture...the new social currency at a low level.

Before the 60's this kind of concept would be so foreign and laughable to people they would barely be capable of grasping it.

The only way as it turns out to make liberalism work was fascism and thats what we currently observe in the media, hollywood, education system, etc etc etc....

The reason that white people will not be able to organize as a group is the psychological warfare wage on them to discount their identity. To feel ashamed of embracing and fighting for it. But this is actually horrible for the world. The current world was made in the mold of western civilization. No other single group has done more for this planet and that is the truth.

Dude, even the big Korean merchant bank CEOs are educated from young that they are the spine, nerve, and blood that the whole nation rests on, which is true as the country relies heavily on their megacorps. Therefore most feel like they are being given this mandate of heaven like mission to make the country prosper.

You have to know that throughout their history the Koreans were regulated to bitches of the Chinese, Mongols, Manchus, and Japanese. This is the one time in their history where they are not a vassal to some other powerful regional power so you could imagine how nationalistic these people are.

Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Norway -- countries which immigrants make a minute percent of the population, although the way things are progressing not for long.

None of them are better than america.

>immigrants
Look up civic nationalism, racist. America was civic nationalism and it was great. Ethnic nationalism is just stupid and unnecessary. Just pure egocentrism.

>america right now
>economy regulated out the ass
>40% gov. spending, increasingly federal
>libertarian capitalism

>None of them are better than america.

How is America better, then?

>Look up civic nationalism, racist. America was civic nationalism and it was great. Ethnic nationalism is just stupid and unnecessary.

I was making a case for nationalism in general. Civic nationalism works, but only when you have a country built up of a multitude of ethnicities that have more in common than they do apart -- which is why European immigration into the US worked so well.

When trump take control, they will be libertarian capitalist

All they have to do is to stop softing up for immigrants. Immigrants should be treated equally, not easier, not harder. If they survive, they earn it. If they don't, they'll go back. Asian immigrants work fine too.

the white race from portugal to russia has less genetic differences than the single han ethnicity

i don't know, they had like 90% income tax on the rich and the CIA controlled everything. not sure if they are the best example.

yes. its called civic nationalism. the idea is that people work together to protect their liberties.

civic nationalism is not mutually exclusive to ethonationalism. tho i can't recall a example of such country, maybe the brits during tatcher.

Every country in the west that is successful or prosperous is a direct result of the ethnic peoples of that country.

For instance you can say America is only 63% white. Fine. But this is only a recent development. America was never 63% white until very recently. The engine that made this country what it is was european...starting with the dutch...the english...then later from all over europe.

Racial Multiculturalism didn't build America. Europeans from various countries did. They shared a ethnic and regional commonality. What is happening currently is a nightmare.

The same goes for Europe. Germany, england, france, etc wasn't built on multiculturalism. It was built by the people of those nations.

You can't fucking say...look at all these countries that aren't nationalistic and are multiculturalist when this is only a recent development and in fact multiculturalism played no part in their history.

Fuck man. Get your shit together. Shit skins are here to pillage what our people worked centuries to build. To collect welfare. To live amongst the relative safety our countries provide. And to feign oppression whenever possible as a tool to silence you and guilt you into consent.

Asians make good workers and integrate fairly well. I'm not sure whether someone so racially different can ever fully assimilate, however.

Cool

What the fuck is this flag holy shit. Looks like Romania mixed with Serbia.

I need answers, I can't handle this rarity.

It's Andorra.

Sure, but why risk it?

Unchecked freedom leaves you open for subversion

look up wikipedia not some retarded fucking faggot
do you think that Hitler was proud of Weimar Germany? No, he was not, does that make him not a nationalist? The guy in the picture is a fucking mongrel just look up definitions on wikipedia or something.

Welfare is never right, i agree. But if they share similar belief, similar mindset, they integrate just fine because they've been a huge fan of your country, and they're skilled enough to survive and contribute to the economy (without welfare or softening up, working as hard as whites), then it's not a problem, right ?

A nation stand or falls with its control over the mainstream media and education. If you allow foreigners to control them you're lost.

So yeah, a certain level of authoritarianism is necessary.

Yes.

Yea and what if a lot of them can't keep up with whites, what if whites don't want to live with them?

No. Any culture which does not defend itself is subjugated and absorbed. Powerful authority helps this ONLY when it too is based.

Depends on what Asian.

People from here and the mainland send their elderly to retire in Australia, NZ and Canada while they themselves work back home. The elders eat off government find while receiving allowances from their children to buy extravagantly, driving prices up. Most of all the elders tend to be far less civilized than their kids, so you have the basic mannerism problems

Well then it's either they'll die or they'll go back. As i said, welfare is never right. Immigrants should have it as hard as locals.

>what if whites don't want to live with them?
But why ? now in america, they make it hard for immigrants to survive. But they who did, they do great now. Where's the problem in that ?

>But why ?

Because I don't want to risk having to see one of those abominations in person.

>But why?
Why should they let immigrants change the face of a country if the locals don't want that

How is that a problem ?

Not really...

IQ

Size of demographic.

I mean we don't have countries (American and in Europe), that actually integrate anymore. People come and nigger the fuck out and white people are pressured to turn a blind eye because of "racism"

look man I know you're trying to see the brighter side of things but thats norm shit. Thats fuckin surface "pat myself on the back" for being so tolerant kinda shit.

The reality is NO.

By and large other ethnicities are bitter and hostile towards white people because they have nothing on the scale of history compared to what we have.

What they are doing is coming into the west to exploit it, but not integrate. The results will be a disaster. With no white people. Its a third world. Even the fucking areas they live in our countries are filthy and dangerous and unproductive.

Man OPEN your fucking eyes. Im not some neo nazi. I'm just a regular dude who has been through a lot of shit and I know whats real and what isn't.

>tax payer

sound pretty racist to me

Why does it have to be a problem (which it is, read Putnam) for me to reject the idea that they should be allowed here?

Yeah but that's just either childish or selfish. Here's what you should be worried about :
Economy
Academic
Creative industry
Etc etc things that can make more money and make less people starve

>i just want my country to be white
Glad that no country has that kind of idea. I mean, it's 2016, you can't think like that anymore.

I agree with those definitions, and I think you can't be a true patriot without also being a nationalist. If you love your country, you should love the people that share your nationality.

>please don't care about this
no

>Glad that no country has that kind of idea. I mean, it's 2016, you can't think like that anymore.

b8

I'd say my country is pretty nationalistic, and so is a country like the US. If half of your country's electorate is "America, fuck yeah!" and your politicians do the same and meddle with everyone's business because of strategic interests and exceptionalism, I'd say it's pretty nationalistic.

Yes it worked well until the anglos worked with the kikes to throw our government

Yeah but not all nonwhites have low IQ. Mine is 112, for example. If IQ matters that much, then them low IQs won't survive, that's all. No country should lower their standard. Not all nonwhites are bitter, you're so clueless about the real world.

Trust me, when a conservative right wing leads again, the unproductives will be forced to work hard again or they won't survive.

I just hate my country, i don't feel attached to my country and culture, i don't agree with their beliefs. I just want to move out to a country i can relate better. The problem is, i'm not white, i'm not lucky enough to be not white. Not that i see the race as superior, it's just that it must be much easier if i'm a white american.

It's just wrong to possess that idea.

i dont think iq is particularly important, but in terms of iq, depending on your ethnicity, you are probably an outlier. outliers children do not remain outliers, einsteins kids were not geniuses and your kids iq will probably return closer to your ethnic average. they will also probably be a bit higher than the average so considering that i think it is immoral to deprive your people of your intelligent bloodline and also immoral to force your bloodline on a more intelligent people.

what i think is important though is general social cohesion and wide genetic differences that result in unhappy unhealthy mongrel children, which happens when you mix too much different race regardless of intelligence or anything else

Why?

Because he's a shitskin and needs us to let our guard down so that he can come live in one of our countries.

>outliers children do not remain outlier
Ugh man i'm never gonna breed then. I'd rather kill myself than seeing a dumber me. I value intelligence too much

But who's unhappy again ? Them, the people that you hate, not your kind. Idk man i just disagree with you. I think as long as a person is able to survive without welfare, he should be okay. Culture is pointless, i don't want to live in a homogenous society.

Because it makes you a bad person. You remind me of islam. Islam teaches the followers to put muslims first before anyone else, however good they are. It's wrong.

I don't think you understand the concept of the base line.

This means even If you have a high IQ that it is more likely then not that your children will revert to the base line IQ of your race. Thats how this works.

Look man I really don't like getting into the shit. I shouldn't have to. I'd love for the world to be equal footed when it came to all this shit but its not.

I don't hate people who aren't white...that would be fucking retarded.

But as a white person living in and amongst the multicultural hellhole... I know that It is a lie. Currently there is a push to have equivalent or even higher rates of other ethnicities in white countries. This is insane. Nothing that works about our countries will continue to and the idea that you have currently about moving to these countries for a better life will disappear. If our countries are flooded with 3rd world immigration then they will become 3rd world. The writing is on the fucking wall.

You remind of that caricature of news article with a picture of a crying refugee and tittle of article saying "10 pictures that will make you say fuck borders and shit".

Seriously fuck off we are full, not concerned what you think of me

Dude....don't hate yourself ok.

Look We don't hate you (singular.) And If I was you I would want the very best life I could create for myself. However these are the issues we are concerned about. We have real problems in our countries as a result of immigration from undeveloped countries.

How in the fuck do you think sweden feels about being the rape capital of europe? Its ALL muslims. Who they are allowing into their country out of generosity. What in the fuck kind of response from us are you expecting???

Part of me always wants to be kind and say the right things and then another part of me is fucking furious. I just have to be solid on this. White people deserve their countries and history and have no obligation to give it away.

Make your own country great. Stop fucking crawling into ours!

FUCK

>If our countries are flooded with 3rd world immigration then they will become 3rd world
If they passed the hard shit that natives can pass, then they're not 3rd world anymore. And when Trump take the throne i believe it will be fair again.

I'm like ready to quit my religion, and now i have to face this race shit to move out ? Oh man

I don't want to move to norway anyway, there's nothing in norway.

>And If I was you I would want the very best life I could create for myself
And i am. I am trying to move out, to a country which suit me, my secular and libertarian belief. A happy nationalist is a nationalist who lives in a patriotic country. I'm sick of the nationalistic people of my country. Just like how commies are sick of their communist countries.

>We have real problems in our countries as a result of immigration from undeveloped countries
But if the person proves to be developed and skilled, why is that a problem ?

>sweden
What happened in europe was a mistake, i'm opposed to it. I'm all for "this is how difficult out lives are. If you're unfit, we're not softening up for you".

>Make your own country great.
I want to see my county make it. I just want to LIVE in a better looking place, surrounded by better people that don't hate gays and atheists. I'm neither, but people who hate it really irritate me, like i'm better than them, i don't want to be related to them. My brain and self deserve a better environment. I don't like local music local culture.

Is this you, town rapist?

Everything's ugly here, everytime i watch tv i want to kill myself. No actually i want to kill them all.

No one's /fa/ here, no one digs the stuffs that i dig, no one loves what i love, the govt is shit the people are shit, the city looks bad, etc etc.

I HAVE TO move out. It's the only thing that gets me up in the morning to go to uni, to study hard to earn more money. To move out. To be surrounded by people like me.

I missed out on this meme. But no, i don't even go out. I'm too beta to aggressively rape.

>I just want to LIVE in a better looking place, surrounded by better people

Again man. Your own country. Stop coming to ours and pretending that our countries will even be able to provide being a better place if we are demographically replaced.

You just don't fucking get it.

You're from Andorra?

Stop reminding me.

oh hey I found the picture in another thread

this

Nationalism has no intrinsic connection to authoritarianism.

Yeah no sorry, i'll still work my way up. I can't live and die here, everytime i go to youtube i'm like "i have to move there"

My country is religious, stupid, intolerant, backward, etc etc and i'm not like that, i don't share the same belief. It's really frustrating to live here, everyday. It's stressful seeing stuffs that you think is wrong, like the lack of freedom of religion and freedom of everything.

I'm still gonna move out. I just hope we won't meet so i don't have to annoy anyone.

Before you say it, no, i can't make anything great again but myself. i'm just one small weak ant. No one can, except if you're donald trump or idk man, presidents. I want to actually experience advancements, not just contributing to something which i couldn't experience the results

Neither does communism.

No but Socialism does which is the road to Communism.

>White people deserve their countries and history and have no obligation to give it away.
And no one is taking it away from you. Your problem might be the lack of your people who embrace your history.

Its definitely a more precarious structure though. All of those people giving up power to a centralized authority in the hopes it will evolve into communism/emancipation/freedom...

Nationalism is a lot less involved and total on the global scale. And inherently creates counterbalances.

>And no one is taking it away from you
you new here?

youtu.be/2yTX3zMkTA0

I'm not jewish i don't want to take it away from you i want to embrace it

>And no one is taking it away from you
>no one

Btw how to have children with the same IQ as you ?

I'm not white and i have high IQ, i don't want my kids to have my race's average IQ.

What should i eat ? What should i do ? My kids have to be superior to me and without higher IQ they can't. I think if they have low IQ i'd put them in the orphanage and make kid again until i got a high IQ one.

Yeah but it's not related to my race, okay. I'm on the same side as you.

>90% income tax on the rich and the CIA controlled everything
life works when big brother tells you what to do

>Andorra is a tiny, independent principality situated between France and Spain in the Pyrenees mountains. It’s known for its ski resorts and a tax-haven status that encourages duty-free shopping
rare

Help me famm

What the fuck is up with all the "Unknown" flags?

ideally yes... so no.

It built an Empire. You have to be pretty nationalistic to subvert and oppress a foreign populace to make your nation great.

Honestly? No, it can't. In order for the nation to survive you need to establish ground rules and enforce them so that nation-wreckers and their ideas as well as useful idiot cucks are literally not allowed to speak or express themselves. This requires authoritarianism. Free speech is a good idea but it's also what allows their own ideas to take root and get parroted til one day they are the ones in charge and making the rules authoritarian style. We need to uproot and exterminate them. Zero tolerance for nation-wrecking iconoclasts and degeneracy

Sure. It would basically be large-scale tribalism.

If this statement were true there would be no nationalists on this board angry with their government.

Yeah

America used to do it before we let banks turn this country into a corrupt (((oligarchy)))

It worked in America from 1776 till about 1992, so it can work. MAGA