Left Wing General

>How can we overthrow the capitalist system and get Cred Forums to become left wing comrades?
By starving in the gulags.

Economic planning is good. Far better than anarchic competition.

gowans.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/do-publicly-owned-planned-economies-work/

Holy fucking RARE!

No, fuck off.

Freedom, above all.

Fuck you.

Fuck your bills.

I hope you starve to death.

I don't give a shit about you.

Did you actually read the article I posted?

No.

Fuck off.

Fuck you.

Fuck your bills.

Hope you starve to death.

I owe nothing to you.

Freedom, above all else.

Put out a short version and answer following questions:

How can command economy work when facility owners aren´t allowed to buy and sell recources, to controll demand and supply?

How can you make sure that the bureaucracy is not going full corrupt when they have all the power over the recources?

How do you think a society can flourish if you pay everyone the same?

I heard playing russian roulette with a semiauto pistol gives you Marx's wisdom.

Quick question, which one of you would like to move to Venezuela?

whatever is that pic related flag, im not it.
helis for commies, viva pinochet!!

...

Savage

Listen guys, capitalism is a system that overthrew rent seeking royals and gentry from being parasites and holding the societies they ruled back. A man could work and make a success of something, only to find it all taken away by some royal cunt who hadnt lifted a finger but needed some cash. Nothing happened for centuries.

Capitalism holds that a man can sweat and work and in return reap the rewards of his sweat.

Capitalism makes sure that the solutions these sweating men create are the best for the conditions in which they exist through the filter medium of competition. We allow everyone to who chooses to, to compete. This ensures that the best solution from as large a pool of competitors can come to the fore.

This creates a new normal - a new business as usual as everyone begins to adopt the new solution or improves upon it.

A good capitalist exists within a good market, he is ashamed if his profits are too high - because the market into which he sells, his customers, will realise that he is ripping them off.

He makes a profit, not an excessive one, and he reinvests into his business and his customers to make his offering much better.

For example, Philip green who ripped off one of his companies' pension funds (billions of £s) is a rent seeker. A psychopathic cunt who believes that or the expense of no sweat he has earned the right to steal his employees futures. He may claim to be a capitalist, but he is a cunt who should be drawn and quartered as a symbol of a bygone era.

Capitalism is good. Rent seekers are bad. The world economy currently is more medieval than it has been in hundreds of years. Turing to communism is not the solution - we have been capitalist since the 1400's. It's our culture.

What we have to do however is finally deal with the rent seekers. The ones who rip off their customers, the market and society. Rent seeking is the cancer, rent seekers are the tools of the devil .

hello i am here
butthurt belt is still pathetic.

if you dont alr live on coupons, i suggest you start getting used to it

okay
"corporatism not capitalism ok?" tier post.

>needing Cred Forums neckbeards to become left wing
if that happens i'll probably become a natsoc.

>Being an anarcho-kiddie
greece don't do this.

You mean....

Go ahead, overthrow the capitalist system. Do it and I, the worker, will quit working.

Cred Forums is reactionary comrade, what we can do is pick the points where we agree and implement.

sorry kardeshim

By brutally murdering yourself

Fucking commie scum

Socialism is Jewish trickery. The Bolsheviks were 85% Jews, the Soviets were majority Jews, both Lenin and Stalin were Jews, most of the people promoting Socialism today are Jews, or of Jewish descent.

You seem to believe that the revolutionary leaders will hand the reigns of power to the Socialist agitators. No. They'll be the first lined up against the wall - just as it has been throughout history.

To all who promote the virtues of Socialism, would you rather live in North Korea or South Korea? Which do you believe provides a better standard of living? Not why, no buts. Just straight-forward answers. Exactly.

Now fuck off with your parasitic kike ideology.

>Stalin was a jew
...

huh?
Corporate capitalism is a term used to define fascist economies. They can be good and or bad. However, they rely on the protections of the fascist state to exist - because they cannot actually compete on an equal footing.

We are currently in a financial capitalist system, this system means that holding an asset is more profitable than actually producing goods with an asset - i.e. if I own a house that no one lives in I can make a bigger profit over time than I can by renting it out. Most of the worlds economy is based in the trading of debt.

This can be fun - but it is dangerous ground as nothing is actually happening, we merely have the appearance of stuff happening.

Mathematically, profits over 20 % indicate that you are ripping off your customers. 2% growth is an indicator of sustainable long term growth that is not ripping off its customers. It's as simple as understanding what doubling times are. the doubling time of 2% growth is 35 years. i.e. if I have $1 today and I invest it at 2% growth in 35 years I will have $2. This is about right from a population growth point of view. If my profits are 20% year on year, then it means I am growing faster than my market - the doubling time of 20% is 3.5 years.

It's highly unlikely that a company with 20%+ profits year on year is earning its money - it must have a large degree of fat in it's prices that it is not earning. It's simple mathematics.

Being a good capitalist is simple on paper:

1. For every dollar invested in materials, consumables, labour and intellectual capital, I seek $1.20 in return.

I don't gamble and fix those figures later, I offer a good or a service - which I understand - i.e. how much it costs to reproduce, with a margin that is large enough to cover off eventualities.

I know the printing costs are higher, so I may add fat to my margins to cover it off. At the end of the year, I have a collection of deals from which the margins have been cannibalised to some extent by my costs. In total I have made 20% or less over and above all the money I spent on salaries, labour, bonuses, supplier contracts etc.

I win, my customers win, society wins.
If I can I make my offering cheaper by re-engineering my process to lower costs or increase quality. Society wins, I win.

Kill the rent seekers. Piss on them and most importantly pass laws that crucify rent seekers in public in you legal jurisdiction. Dont vote for rent seekers, vote for capitalism.

Thats the best way to defeat communists.

Die fahne hoch

Kill yourselves you left-leaning parasites.

Oh yeah, capitalism is great, bro.

As long as money's being made and stomachs are being filled, there's nothing else to worry about.

Forgot link

scientificamerican.com/article/earth-talks-daily-destruction/

And of course, if some stomachs go unfilled or aren't filled with enough nutritious food, that's fine, bro. It's the cost of muh freedom.

*stomachs of your own people

Definitely no solution to this but waiting for the vapid masses to want to change it, even though their efforts would be slowed, conceded to halfway (maybe), or stopped by businessmen trying to keep the gravy train going.

>How can we overthrow the capitalist system and get Cred Forums to become left wing comrades?

By getting out of your mom's basement and getting a job. That'll show us.

Yeah so a good criticism of capitalism is that it seeks to externalise costs. This means it attempts to avoid paying for things that no one wnats to charge it for. Capitalists ( not to be conflated with capitalism) do externalise costs. Externalising costs is a form of rent seeking, seeking reward for which you have not shed any sweat.

In the USA ground water is being polluted for instance by large enterprises. The answer is not the end of capitalism, the answer is to make them pay. The answer is to vote in a government that will prevent companies from polluting its workers water for instance.

It's the same with worker safety - if you churn through 100's of workers a year who are injured through the course of their work, then you should be made to pay for them, possibly the rest of their lives. You should not seek rents by saying it was unfortunate and shrugging your shoulders and walking away.

A good capitalist is a pillar of society, a good capitalist does not shirk his responsibilities. Vote different. Sort it out. Kill the rent seekers.

Give away all of your shit and money since you want tp seize the moral high ground hypocrite. Start with the device you posting with it should feed a poor family for at least a day.

>when the goyim seize the means of production, but leave the bankers and merchants at the top alone

The answer lies in understanding who owns what, what for and why - and then educating those around you. There is an ancient european thing called a commons. A commons is something that belongs to the people - like water, or trees or blue skies or whatever. If you hunt for instance then the commons is the forest and the animals that you hunt.

If a company wants to cut down your forest, they have have to pay - but until you quantise the value of the hunting commons, you cannot have the discussion. They will simply call you names and fuck your disorganised arse.

What is the value of a day of hunting, hmmm. Lets see - water ( cause u drink from the stream ) , accomodation ( because you sleep in the forest) , parking ( because you park your car there for a few days), meat ( Because thats what you bring home ) , adventure, scenery excercise ( gym costs equivalent), mental health etc.

With enough hunters, the company never gets to the point where it can afford to cut down your forest, they simply cannot afford to replace what they are taking away.

But most people are scared of being capitalists, will wilt when called to protect themselves and their interests, or when they are called commies.

But it's capitalism. You simply have to prevent the cunts from externalising their costs, you have to stop paying their costs with your health and stuff.

>implying left-wing means communism
>implying left-wing means an end to capitalism
Go fuck yourself

Why would I when I believe in private property? Redistributing everybody's wealth isn't going to solve core issues rather, it will bring more standards of living down.

Mind expounding on why rent seeking is bad? Seems like a natural extension of human tribal behavior as holdings get bigger and bigger.

Sure, a lot of barbarians kept things small and community based after, say, mediterraneans developed larger states, but it seems that having something like a king or a feudal lord is a legitimate extension of human society as it grew.

Someone harming his people like Phil green is an asshole who should be properly slapped own by some regulatory agency.

I want to see if we can set infinite desire for money down and hail a greater purpose, as seen in the final piece of this picture.

Today is the 66th birthday of People's Republic of China lads

I´m still waiting for some answers.

>why rent seeking is bad?
Well, it's dishonest. It's theft. I am not referring here to renting out a home if you are a landlord. It is a generic term referring to an economic means of creating value. It means to to seek reward for something you have not done. Just like a mugger, or a thief, or a burglar.

As an example, let's imagine I own the land on which your business is located. I charge u $1 in rent a year ( great place I know ;)).

One day u invent something everybody wants and make big bucks. You worked like a dog, you deserve the rewards. Even though rents are set at $1 a year, I get jealous of your increased earnings. I decide that some of the money you made must belong to me. So I increase the rent.

I dont build you a house, I dont give you water, I dont do anything that increases the value of the land that I am renting to you. I simply raise the rent, because I want what is yours. That is the definition of rent seeking.

Monarchy is bad because one man or woman decision maker cannot and will not out compete millions of people in the game of decision making. Not consistently over the long term. It did it's job in a by gone era, but ultimately democracy produces better results and outcomes.

well said you saffer

>learning how to shave - slideshow.jpg

Hmm, I'll have to think tn that. Thank you very much for being charitable with my first post and responding.

I still think that it's possible to establish gov't that rewards individual merit while having a less than free market, like how Nazi Germany heavily privatized various economic sectors but put regulations in place and taught a societal standard designed to protect the people.

Furthermore, examples like the common land you talked about concern me since it leaves (infinite) greed to prod and poke at publicly protected things and perhaps let international businessmen (or native ones) to pool money to buy out the commons or lobby government to redefine the commons or their appropriate use.

To be perfectly fair, I'm operating on the assumption that any gov't requires virtue to be sustainable and effective.

I don't support communism.
Because government and public officers have too much power on the system. Then they will make a ruling class for them.
To say in other words, If human is robots, communism works.

A strong constitution that defined basic tenets of the government/society would help too.

i'm of the oppinion that a government doesn't have to be virtuous. in fact they can't be since a government's role is to seize power, even if it is in small increments.

an effective government is one with a risk of being removed and this is the thing most western governments lack.

> Because government and public officers have too much power on the system.

because that isn't the case now, right?

Move to a state with a marxist vanguard party in charg

keeeeeeeeeeeek

...

...

...

You got it.

Marx mentioned the dictatorship of the proletariat that is needed before you can achieve communism.
Somehow this dictatorship of the proletariat always ended in the dictatorship of the party/leader.

Those people got a better version of communism.

sure buddy

Except pol agrees north korea is awesome

learn more dumbass

By furthering along automisation. Either this forces governments to go more leftwing in terms of basic income, or inequality rises massively as tonnes of people become unemployed. The former leads to democratic change, the latter to revolutionary change.

no danger

>yfw National Socialism is the true socialism that would have eventually lead to Real Communism™

It's so obvious.

> less than a free market

The free market is not free. The previously existing market has has all the freedoms. But there are all sorts of trade barriers etc that renders the idea of a current free market non existent.

Common land can be protected, constitutionally, and through the assessment of value. If you vote into power those who will do away with your commons, then that is is your fault.

brilliant pic

Communism going global at once is a misstake. Cultures aren't all equally ready. It's like the US trying to put democracy in Iraq.

What is 'real communism'?
It's not Marxism, because marx offered a critique of 19th century capitalism. He offered no policies and failed to define anything practical.
What defines a communist?

youtube.com/watch?v=I0N6eK6NqdQ

Real communism is an abstraction, an ideal, it's a thing to strive for. It's much like world peace or a society without violence.

But what does it look like?
Is it cultural in the same way that capitalism is cultural. How do we strive for it?
Even the soviets used a state capitalist system.

Heres a question for you. In the very near future, like our childrens lifetimes, machines and robots will be able to do most of the jobs. Particularly high value jobs like law and medicine are already being looked at quite seriously from an automation stand point, and to some extent something like the legal intern doing his or her articles are already redundant.

How does communism intersect with a world in which all / most work will be performed by machines and computers?

Remember if the owner of a machine makes all the money, and has no employees, then who can afford to buy the goods and services that the machines produce? By definition the economy with no employees must come to an end, because no one can afford to pay for the goods that are being produced, and without payment the producer cannot buy new raw materials for instance.

My "Ideal" of communism assumes a (nearly) post-scarcity humanity.

Jobs are basically extinct. I'm purposefully ignoring ruling class, because I have no clue how you'd rule such a thing, much less than how a tribal guy would figure out how to rule the US. Innovation grinds down to more a hobby thing and just "AI" research. If we are in a communist world, there is no single owner of a machine. If the entire "sphere of production" is self-maintaining and ubiquitous, everyone can have access to it.

Tbh, asking for the specifics is kinda hard for me, no more than asking for my parents/grandparents for how our "economy" would change with the advent with "just" the computer. Ultimately, I'm not the guy to ask for this. My field is Physics with a love for languages.

>needing to be left wing

Just pull a national socialism and youre in a paradise.

>Real communism is an abstraction

So, "real" communism is an illusion? It's no wonder it doesn't exist, and only idiots think it can.

communism works in a tribal setting where you have no more than 170 people working together.

If you want communism to work, destroy the nation state.

I'll buy that. I think the age of the machines will bring the opportunity to create such a society, or alternatively a living hell.

Specifics will be needed in order to prevent the latter

Well, the Ruskies and the Chinks couldn't make it work, so I'll say no

But I'm afraid that communism will kill me and my family.

>edgeness thread

Why overthrow anything couldn't we just have some countries that runs different economic systems and then you could just try them out and see what you like?

you first have to take over an already poor country
then explain to them how everything that is wrong with them is the capitalists fault.
then you enslave them and become the rich elitists and live controlling the masses until someone drops you from a helicopter

that is the communist way.

Abstraction and illusion are different things, you numbnuts.

>implying you can manage millions of economic transactions by a central planning system made by humans

LUL, just kill yourself or learn basic economic principles

>mfw lefties actually venerate the mass murders lenin, stalin and mao

So CTR is showing it's real colors. Figures

If the "abstraction" is defined as "nice things that are good" then it's bullshit. False hope and empty promises are a poor replacement for economic growth and trade-skills.

There's a famous road paved with good intentions. You might want to look it up, Brazil.

I don't understand how communism is supposedly pro-workers when the system doesn't pay or reward the workers for working.

What's going on here?

k

The proletariat state won't be getting rid off ever. Power is a drug and an addict don't want stop using his drug.

Where did this meme came from? If there was no payment nobody would work.

Not an argument.

>North Korea
>socialist
wew lad

Not an argument.

Nice meme

Honestly? Let trump win. Then in typical contarian fashion, they will glorify the left.

>mfw they don't

>using private enterprise as a means to serve the people while defending it from the corrupting influences of globalist capitalism.

Welcome to National Socialism.

>How can command economy work when facility owners aren´t allowed to buy and sell recources, to controll demand and supply?
State owned everything and controlled those. There were fuck ups but on other side no economic crisises like one hitting capitalist world in 1920s.
>How can you make sure that the bureaucracy is not going full corrupt when they have all the power over the recources?
You keep executing them for not meeting the quotas aka sabotaging.
>How do you think a society can flourish if you pay everyone the same?
you don't? there was a rule that no big scientist or artist or state official can be paid more than your basic worker from the plant with highest qualification. State would still gib them bigger houses, personal cars, special treatment though.

So has there been an existing country or government system the communists can point to and say "Yeah this is what we should strive for!"?

...

look I think there are a lot of nationalist socialist governments about - just not as hardcore as old adolfs one.

But it's the rent seekers who will destroy. Perhaps national socialism offers the opportunity of shaming those who act as parasites, but I am unclear on the history of the beast as it existed at the time in this regard

Of course not. Communism is designed to produce a tyrannical and oppressive technocratic state because it was created by idiots.

Marx only complained about the "rich Jews" because he was a Jew, and his life was paid for by constantly borrowing large sums of cash from family and friends until they refused to talk to him anymore. He never worked or produced anything of value throughout his entire life. Then he justified it all by claiming that the people he was living off like a parasite were the "real parasites", not his useless bloodsucking existence.

It's very attractive to useless idiots that are destined to be inferior. Give power to whomever promises the most impossible outcome, hate people that are better than you, and pretend to be surprised when it inevitably fails so you never have to learn from the fundamental flaws of the system. Then top it off by claiming that every communist nation isn't "real" communism, and insist that it'll be different next time.

>Left Wing General

Stalin and Mao were pretty hard-core right-wing conservatives. Check them on the issues.

>I think what we need is a return to the pure capitalist ideology where capitalist act in a way that strengthens society

In ancient communities we had communes being successful by producing for themselves and altruistically producing for each other.

Then there were the pure capitalist raiding parties that didn't produce anything, but they were successful because they could always steal other people's stuff. Might=right.

10,000 years has taught us that this will always be the case.

>Stop being anti-racist and be willing to tell niggers to stop being antisocial niggers, on pain of gulag.

Prison island. It worked for Australia.

>Capitalism holds that a man can sweat and work and in return reap the rewards of his sweat.

What happens when that man gets old and too feeble to defend his stuff from the capitalists who want his stuff.

>Thats the best way to defeat communists.

Daily reminder: The "communists" managed to take the poorest monarchy in Eastern Europe and over the course of 50 years of "socialism" somehow turn it into the world's only superpower rival to the US.

Commies are literal meme-tier
>met a commie few days ago
>he praised this ripped Die Linke politician
>i asked him what he'd do if he was out with his gf and the politician would slap his gf's ass
>his response
>"Good day, comrade!"

>the company never gets to the point where it can afford to cut down your forest, they simply cannot afford to replace what they are taking away.

One of the problems we've always had with corporations is that corporations refuse to be responsible for the damage their effluent and pollution causes, and for the effects of their raw material intake (i.e. coal mines, strip mining, deforestation, dust bowl farming,

Collectivism keeps the state and people in each others faces. So long as that is the case you will never have the consent of the governed. I will punch a leftist/SJW who interferes with me and tells me what to do and think right in the throat.

Better to have a system of laws and fair competition/meritocracy.

>I will punch a leftist/SJW who interferes with me

Might=right

Actually no. It's human nature. Get in muh face, tell me what to do, use social pressure to conform to some f/cucked ideology, get a punch in the throat.

>Economic planning is good. Far better than anarchic competition.
planning means you pick the winners. competition lets all compete on their merits.

plan a free market.

>Actually no. It's human nature. Get in muh face, tell me what to do, use social pressure to conform to some f/cucked ideology, get a punch in the throat.

You agree to pay taxes in exchange for living in America. You agree to obey laws and follow rules that make society safer and healthier.

Then you unilaterally decide you can irrationally pick and choose based on your distortion and misinterpretation of ideology?

You're not fit for OUR society.

capitalism is not the same as mercenary

he has bought himself a pension and or his employer has added it to his reward package

but thats a legislative issue. your legislators keep giving them immunity with their special add ons to your laws. A law about car manufacturing will have a clause hidden it giving company xyz immunity from prosecution for pollution. Vote for someone else.

Fuck Communism you queer. Be an Anarchist or you arent left wing. GTFO back to best Korea OP

are you shure that you want this, you will be enlisted in industrial army "burgerland-9/11" (look p. 8) as a working drone №148890001

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Start by taking a helicopter ride.

>he has bought himself a pension and or his employer has added it to his reward package
But there are no regulations or laws to protect the retirement fund his employer just raided or the money that he has deposited with the Jewish banker.

>but thats a legislative issue. your legislators keep giving them immunity with their special add ons to your laws.

You're right, however, the government is supposed to regulate corporations on our behalf. The corporations have literally armies of lobbyists controlling the legislation. Their tsunamis of money drown out our voices.

The only way for Americans to get their government back is to stop pretending legal fictions like corporations are artificial persons, and stop pretending money is constitutionally protected free speech. Remove corporations from politics.

Cred Forums will be left wing when the left will stop defending minorites over their countrymen.

yes that can be a problem.
yup. dont be scared of being called a commie. Its better to dress this shit up as fighting communism by removing the cancer, which is exactly what it is.

HILLARY'S PARKINSON'S TREMORS CAUGHT ON CAMERA

>youtube.com/watch?v=925ihXI1lkE

>youtube.com/watch?v=925ihXI1lkE

>youtube.com/watch?v=925ihXI1lkE

I would have no problem with this if the entire movement wasn't made up of kikes, cucks, niggers, feminists, pedophiles, and other degenerates

>gommies
>on Cred Forums

>claims that they're a leftist
>actually just a labor drone
every
time
ECONOMIC PLANNING IS NOT LEFTIST

Thank fucking god, the U.S. got something right.