Why would anyone want to be a programmer?

If programming is your only skill then you are no better than a poo-in-the-loo.

Programming is a base skill everyone who isn't a low-IQ normie should have.

Been doing this for a decade.

I'm a father, I eat the best food, I work out (nearly) every day, and despite being divorced I have a girlfriend that blows me constantly.

I'm on (one of) the teams that keeps McDonald's up and running, but I will never eat there because it's awful.

I'm a software engineer, I'm the mythical developer that is not a socially inept autist.

>Inb4 leaf

Lots to learn. Always changing so gotta keep on learning. Pay can be OK to really good. Social life is probably literally the worst. Lots of, if not the majority of programmers are liberal faggots.

I wouldn't recommend it all, but I wouldn't want to be a doctor either looking at blood and guts and gross old people.

Every job has pretty bad downsides. I mean you could be some king shit in marketing, be surrounded by hot sluts, but then you'd have to look at yourself and say you're a faggot.

I couldn't do it.

Also 100% of programmers in western countries are redditors

>download a template (of buy it for 25$ if i'm really desperate)
>quick edit text & colors & past their logo
>client is amazed about my work and think i'm a guru
>charge them 1000$ for a 2 hours job
feels good man :)

Pajeets are usually terrible workers and due to the nature of the job/skill, many companies prefer a domestic worker for security reasons.

Cockroach/rat in a maze tier.

Not a programmer, but neural networks are the big new thing.

You're training one with your reCaptcha right now...

You are the worst kind of person.

Nice hustle, though.

It's true, all of it. So many fucking whiny bleeding heart liberals.

The self hate is ridiculous, we are simultaneously ashamed of how much we make and we aren't shy about passing over jobs that don't pay ridiculous amounts.

lol end this meme pls

i started programming for fun and now i have 2k € paycheck without even uni diploma, also fucking girls 8+/10 my whole life ...

so tell me now britbong, how do you feel about your street sweeping job ??

Not true, some live on (((Twitter))) to fully experience the liberal echo chamber.

The "outsource it to India and pocket the rest of the budget" meme didn't last long beyond the first time people tried to use and maintain Indian software

What about quantum computers and all that shit?

Really, whats going to be the next "cool thing" to come out of programming in the next 10 years?

Because if I see another "diversity in tech" ad I hope whatever passes for Skynet wipes us all out.

Because it was this or neuroscience.

>Keeps McDonald's up and running

Alright normie, still a McJob.

Pajeets are shit tier, they are hated and the project managers that get bonuses for outsourcing are hated by all domestic developers.

Everybody knows they're stealing domestic wages and management loves having a "diversified" team.

Thats nice but can you explain why old men enjoy running things?

>2016
>not being part of the DBA master race

not true.
programmers and other STEM people are the most redpilled of all ... they are used to use logic all the time so the redpill comes naturally without every struggle ...

leave web design and other code monkeys out of that ... we are talking here about programmers don't we ?

>Software developers averaging almost 6 figures
>Shit pay

What?

MS Sql Server can eat a dick.

I cannot go on anymore. I am incapable of feeling anything but nigger-cock, loneliness or endless satisfaction.Even when I try to be with a friend, I feel like I am alone and that my heart is about to burst.Today my nigga Deshaun was asking for food for the 10th time in 5 hours, so I completely snapped by throwing his EBT cards all over the ground and filling his bowl until it overflowed. I chased the young black youth asking "aren't you hungry now?? huh?? I thought you wanted food?? why don't you fucking eat??" until I let him outside, picked up a sweeper, of which I used to sweep a couple of EBT cards before collapsing on the floor crying loud for what felt like an eternity. After I was able to get myself off the floor, I took a bunch of erectile-dsyfunction medication and prepared it in a bag for when I have finally hadenough,which I feel will be this weekend. Fuck.

I'm an Oracle and DB2 DBA but SQL Server is honestly not bad. It's been improved a lot over the years.

Oracle is still the patrician choice though.

It's bimodal distribution -- most are either bottom or top tier.

Pic related, it's old but it was the first I found on Google.

Yeah you're right it's not bad, it gets the job done, but I still prefer PostgesSql to this.

Are those jizz stains on her dress?

This. I worked at a big theme park over a summer and they'd hire people from China and this was just for min wage. Could apply to almost everything

>they apply to pretty much every job.

not really. if your job can be outsourced it's a shit job

The ones that are redpilled are fully redpilled, and the same is true for bluepilled. (((Hillary))) gets a lot of support from liberal faggots.

>Pic related.

b/c you can make fortunes through learning how to code specific things such as video game cheats

I get 72k with bonus as a front end developer.

Probably.

Postgres is good for sure

So where do I start to make some money programming?

I don't want to be a programmer but I do think it's a skill worth learning, times we live in being what they are....

I like programming, so why not make money with it?
Also it's one of the last true "crafts" that are still a viable career.

I did start my own business becasue wages are indeed far too low for the amount of kill, value and effort you put in.

Not true, sometimes hiring remote workers can be good, but good remote teams are always employed so they always expect the same top tier salary of Silicon Valley.

Software Engineer at a Fortune 50 company here.

Hours are fine and work is relatively easy.

>gets you 66 Indian Poopees
If you can be easily replaced by some dude called Pajeet from India that doesn't ask for proper pay, then you're probably just a script kiddie..

>B-But I know how to write C# and VB on a windows desktop!
>Th-That makes me a programmer..

t. embedded systems programmer

What choice do you have besides STEM fields? I got a degree in Finance and can't find a job for a year now. No one is hiring you unless you have at least 5 years of experience plus professional certification like Chartered Accountant.

The job industry is disconnected from universities who waste our time and money with useless knowledge and not teach us the skills we need for the job. I was forced to take shit like psychology, french and humanities crap in my finance degree as they were core subjects.

Fucking nonsense.

Any tips towards becoming a front end dev?

You don't have to go outside among the subhumans ever

this scares me the most

signing up for some really objective course and then getting a bunch of new age bullshit thrown in to "educate you" that is extremely subjective

It will mostly literally a janitor's job.

>You're training one with your reCaptcha right now...

I always either choose not all images, or, better yet, choose a wrong image, thus adding to the entropy.
>tfw that AI launches a nuke and ends the world sometime in the future because you were once fucking with it and picking wrong images on purpose.

I'm a programmer making $115k a year working 40 hours a week, and I have a redpilled gf.

Ruby or Python?

Just finished college up in spring of 2015. Now I'm making 135k/yr + bonuses and have already paid off my student loans.

The ones making all the money are usually self taught or college educated. I'm the former and my ex wife is the latter.

There are free resources online, check out Code Academy. You are effectively learning a new language, it'll take daily dedication and studying for months before you land a job anywhere.

can't argue with that ... know lots of true red pilled but aslo lots of blue pilled only on outside, fearing for loosing job if they let the true redpill out..

>leave web design and other...
The times of "excel, wow." are long gone.
You can no longer separate design/usability from raw features.
(web-developer for the finance sector here)

Good luck selling software that looks like shit... unless, maybe you have few/no competitors.

I learned from experience that only jobs with professional certifications like SysAdmins, Programmers, Engineers and Accountants have a future.

Companies hate cookie cutter candidates with uniform skill set, they value certifications and vocational programs over 4 year bachelors and masters degree which are full of rubbish.

If you pay for third world quality, your product becomes third world quality. Relationship argument is bullcrap. Pay is bullcrap as well, earns more than most degrees right off the bat. Long hours and clients, don't pretend you have no control over that. In any job you can get shit clients and long hours.

most programmers also aren't psuedo electrical engineers my friend, props for that career choice though.

See

I wanted to do CS but my dad would not let me. He thought I would be repairing computers in a shop for a living. Everyday I wake wanting to kill myself as I am doing something I don't like.

>tfw computer science degree
>completely unmotivated
>0 confidence
I wish I could just find a manual labour job, but I think due to poor social skills even that is too far out of my reach.

Modern life feels bad man.

Find your true purpose and blow yourself up, paki.

In order of importance
1. Know or say you know certain cms, Magento is big then WordPress and Joomla.
2. Outside of jQuery knowing angular too is a big plus
3. Knowing PHP is nice too because you are gonna need how to pull in the data you want for your page but this depends on the company alot.

These are things that really helps a company narrow down who they need. Also try to avoid development firms that are just big outsouricng agencies

I'm a programmer and I'm pretty happy with the money and the work. But I spend too much time indoors on the computer. If I could do it all over again I'd probably join the Merchant Marine instead and be a ship engineer.

Should I be a programmer or a high school maths teacher?

Those are my two options.

Python if you must

a manual labor job is not out of any ones reach unless you have health problems

you don't really need social skills you just need to be able to do the manual labor

I have designed and written software that's used professionally by hundreds of people each day.

What have you done that's so special?

>I wish I could just find a manual labour job,

Easy to say that living in a first world country. I actually did manual labor and worked shitty jobs to pay for my degree.

You need a kick in the balls. That's all.

No but I have rock bottom for real this time. I will probably die from a stroke or heart failure in a few months at this rate.

Test

Go online, check out Code Academy. It's pure substance, no liberal faggotry thrown at you.

Thanks. I am the former too. I recently finished an online course on C++ on Coursera. I think it's time I carried on and learn algorithms too.

i want to learn about AI if anyone has any information on where to start with AI I would love it

Good for you. I've not done anything special.

>I want to kill myself
Do it

Teacher. Then you can fuck highschool girls.

Be a programmer first, save some money and buy a house. Be a teacher later when you're older and wiser and want a slower life.

edx.org/course/artificial-intelligence-uc-berkeleyx-cs188-1x

Does this trigger you?

It's terrifying how much you will get fucked in the ass by HR if you reveal your power level to the wrong people. Everybody is afraid of being labelled a bigot and getting blackballed.

They are usual monkeys who learned their trade, which isn't that difficult a trade btw, through spending years to learn and perfect it. Many programmers have that delusion, but the fact is - they are no more logical than your average shoemaker. They just know how to program shit because they spent years reading books about it and programming, that's it.

>WordPress
my god, i hope that shit gets replaced by something better soon.

>Outside of jQuery knowing angular too is a big plus
angular 1.5 and 2 (companies need people to maintain/further develop older stuff too)
In that context: npm/bower is getting popular

We also have Punjabis and sikhs on our side. Why would it trigger me?

>>long hours
>>shit pay because exchange rate of 1 US dollar gets you 66 Indian Poopees meaning Pajeet will be very happy with $15/month
lulz

be me
get out of college
get two years of experience in a local company
find new job, which is 100% remote in a german company
get german moneys
live in czechia.
be rich as fuck.

:^) stay mad faggot.

>So tell me Cred Forums. Why is the programming meme still being shilled on us and people easily falling for it?
Because there's wages to be suppressed.

The endless sea of pajeets has ruined programming as a career.

I tried computer science but dropped out after a week because the Maths was way too hard for me to step up to. Switched to business school, way easier, got a job in business tech and now manage programmers instead of being one.

gracias senor

See
>Pic unrelated.

We have them but they decided to troll the web for trap porn and post it to Cred Forums for some reason...

Lucky for you most of them are hilariously incompetent

We are though. You were just a retard and fell for memes.

If you think Pajeet is still a threat to an accomplished European or American programmer, then you are still living in 2004.

The whole "programming is a Meme" meme comes from retards who bitch and moan that a 2.0 at Statename State University wasn't enough to get them a job

>If you can be easily replaced by some dude called Pajeet from India that doesn't ask for proper pay, then you're probably just a script kiddie..

Very true.

That's another thing I like about programing: skill level really matters.

But it's also a big disappointment when you notice you can do in one day what your colleagues do in one week.
Yet your pay isn't 5X higher.
Feels like a ripoff.

That is the sort of thing HR will ask you, but if you get interviewed by an actual developer and start talking about CMSs you're going to look like a retard.

programming is cool, you should start lifting weight if you're too self conscious about your body/height.
programming bought me this cool pass

Cred Forums Pass user since October 2016.

Can you explain what you mean by state name state university?

Can confirm, WordPress is shit tier but it's a semi-decent start to a career.

Angular 1.5 and 2 are in demand, can also confirm.

>Yet your pay isn't 5X higher.
git gud at negotiating.
Companies want to keep good people, even if they have to pay up and if they dont, well, go to another company. If you're really that good, that should be no problem.

I tried marketing and hot sluts is the last thing you'd be surrounded with these days because that's "sexism." You'll be admonished for relying on the sex sells approach because it's supposedly thoughtless and outdated. Which is a lie of course, because obviously still sells.

Seriously, when I tried to study marketing and business the professors would interject marxist bullshit into the lesson but they would never actually label it as economic marxism. They would disguise it as capitalism or a form democratic socialism. The word 'socialism' is used very loosely among PHDs.

We learn lessons about how you earn more when everyone is paid an equal wage. I failed a test about stereotypes because I got every single one wrong. Apparently, mexicans are supposedly the most hard working when most spics I've came across are lazy porch monkeys.

Marketing is fucking garbage. I just thought it was funny, because I too thought it'd just be a job where you could rely on your charisma and simply sponsor babes to advertise a product and be done with it. Nope, apparently these days every single business venture needs to have a far leftist angle.

...

Sure. While not all Statename State Universities are bad (Penn State isn't an awful school, Ohio state is passable, etc.), most schools that are [state school is in] State University are awful. Colorado State, Illinois State, etc. obviously successful people come from those schools, but the odds are stacked far against you compared to going to an established, respected school. Is it right? Probably not, but that's the way the world works

It's true. You clean up shit but nobody will complain because you're the only one that can do it.

It's a calling. I used to program when I was a kid, just for fun. Now I do it for money. Quite a lot of money actually. I see all these NEETS, people who hate their job, and I feel lucky.

Also, you can compete with the Panjeets by being white, speaking English, and showing up at the office one time everyday. Just being some guy on the internet doesn't cut the mustard.

>quantum computers
D-Wave just released a new pseudo quantum computer that has 1000 qubits, thats 2^1000 bits per operation compared to the 64 your computer does.

That's roughly 1.6 * 10^147 times faster than the previous generation, for the less math inclined here, you add 147 zeroes behind 1.6

D-wave's quantum computer isn't a general one, but it does well on certain types of mathematics/physics. Google and IBM are working on general ones and are making progress.

>tape on camara
Okay I understand that
>tape on mic jack

Why? What does this jew know?

Programmers, how far are we from programs that can use programs? A piece of software that can use Microsoft office or Sage 50 so you can fire all your entry-mid level office workers and save millions on labour/office rent

This is it.

HR and project managers will walk all over you but if you're good and you can negotiate without being an entitled asshole then they'll pay up.

>Kek @ desu in captcha

>1.6 * 10^147 times faster for the 1 problem you can actually solve with it
SUGOI

Hmmm is it the extra state added in? I guess because University of [State] came first?

Depends on your type of programmer. Yes, web dev shit goes to india, so does all the other grunt work. But the real high level stuff, architecture etc, you need high grade programmers for that, and they make tons.

I do SQL server. A lot of money to be made knowing this shit bro

do you people differentiate? It's just databases at the end of the day

That's already here bro. I'm a software/web developer and part of the build process is UI unit tests with Selenium, it literally opens a browser and starts using our website to make sure it works property before the customer-facing version of it gets updated.

Saying you know WordPress and PHP is redundant. If you are using WordPress hooks, writing custom plugins/functions you're doing most of it in PHP.

Probably. I don't know WHY they tend to suck more than University of [Statename], but 9/10 times they do

>long hours
No, unless your company does not adopt DevOps, SCRUM, Prince2 and the like, you work 8 hours a day.
>shit pay because exchange rate of 1 US dollar gets you 66 Indian Poopees meaning Pajeet will be very happy with $15/month
Companies now refrain from offshoring their development teams, because Indians and Malaysians are not well trained to properly implement software architectures or OOP best practices.
>clients always have unrealistic expectations
You're a spineless faggot if you cannot stand your ground against clients and their expectations. This is why you have lead developers at the table to keep them in check.
>guarenteed to never get a gf unless you are a super Chad hacker with 10000 years experience at Google, Facebook and Twitter
This is about how you look like, not the profession
>will most likely remain an autistic virgin your entire life fapping to 2D cartoons
>>Cred Forums

t. python/java dev

Are there actual jobs using Python?

If you have serious cash then you can buy your way into having camera and mic access, and gathering live high quality intelligence on tech companies will get you significant information.

They don't just talk about the weather and their kids' bullshit.

>So tell me Cred Forums. Why is the programming meme still being shilled on us and people easily falling for it?
in US

in europe it's a god tier profession since we don't have to worry about getting outsourced while the quality of US product falls since you outsource your jobs to some dumbfucks

such irony

Universities are becoming not worth the time and money. If I were 18 today, I would just start working and get experience, fuck uni

A friend of mines is a coder with a big company. He makes about 110k and has a cuty wife. He has traveled the whose world and seems to be pretty satisfied despite 95% of work spent for testing and shit. He bought a big house in Seattle midtown and monthly payments seem to be quite okay for him. He also has a fancy car.

Whereas I ride a rusty bicycle, have almost nothing working for the German state (at a uni).

Oh i know they're shit, but there are also a lot of college "programmers" out there. A Hello world! and three Python courses does not a programmer make..

The reason STEM is becoming a meme is that a degree gets you what you put into it. A lot of modern "engineers" have high hopes of cashing in and zero actual interest in the technology or field.

Then they complain because the guy that started coding for fun at 14 yo making shitty computer games get's the job, while they spent over 100k on a degree and end up unemployed..

Yeah but why tape the mic jack? If there's not a microphone plugged in it can't get your voice?

fuck off with this shit mate

I used it in a project on my job once.

But in reality, any respectable position will have you learning a new language on the fly as needed. 80% of my work is done in C, but the other 20% is "fuck it, let's try to do something new."

Then you have people who do nothing but maintain legacy code in Fortran all day. No hate to those people though, as they get paid HANDSOMELY.

Yeah but the difference is gluing it all together -- they can't take directions, perform menial tasks, and tell other people what to do.

Running automated Selenium tests is different from having Siri do your company's taxes and payroll.

I started my own company now.

Just think it's a shame employers can't value their employees, becasue if it wasn't for the pay I would rather be a wage slave than have to deal with all the paperwork.

You obviously have no idea what the profession is like.

Get back into your Hobbit hole.

>cherrypicks the worst aspects of some programming jobs and then claims all programmers have to deal with them
>thinks any mentally stable woman with an IQ above 90 would rather date someone with a "manly" job like a car mechanic or construction work
One of the cool things about being a programmer is that you usually don't have to deal with coworkers who are retards like OP .

I'm not a DBA but if you're dealing with a big company that pays tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars a year just for the hardware then you need high quality folks with narrow focus.

The devil is in the details, sure it's all the same at the end of the day but if you need someone to keep it online 24/7 with planned upgrades and migrations regularly then they're going to need a specialist.

There's limitations currently, but once those are solved it's going to revolutionize humanity on the same scale as the industrial revolution or the computer.

Imagine real time simulation of atoms and molecules, the ability to literally perfecting chemical processes we have been doing for decades if not centuries.

Between 1 and 2 % of all earths power consumption is used by artificial fertilizer production, optimizing the production could save millions of tons of coals worth every year. And that's just the first case come to mind.

The increase in computing power will allow humanity to rapidly iterate and develop new techniques, processes. Including genome manipulation. Today the number one limitation is always computing power, even simple experiments requires hogging the campus mainframe for weeks.

Quantum computing is the real deal, and unlike fusion power it's right on our doorsteps, it's so close we already have working prototypes and commercial pseudo ones.

Dropbox, Uber, YouTube, and numerous other big names run on Python. Python when you can, Java/C++ when you must is something I hear often.

You beat me to it. Selenium is awesome. Unless you're unfortunate enough to be testing a fucking asp.net Silverlight page.

But what a beautiful piece of software Selenium is. Nothing better than automating tasks.

Didn't see that, it's probably paranoia.

>thinks any mentally stable woman with an IQ above 90 would rather date someone with a "manly" job like a car mechanic or construction work
If the guy's a 'Chad' then women will flock to him regardless of his profession.

yeah just databases, but it depends on how far down the rabbit hole you go. I do query optimization and data mining, so I'm just doing th Microsoft stack for now. In the future I'd like to learn more Oracle.

Why would you not just physically disable the hardware instead of a fucking piece of take if it's that important?

So you're saying I should just bite the bullet and go for that Computer Engineering degree or at least minor in it with CS?

I enjoy IT and wanted to improve my ability by being able to build shit. Also would like to work as a pentester so programming is good.

I don't care if I don't make 6 figures as long as I have 65-85k per year I will be happy.

>will most likely remain an autistic virgin your entire life fapping to 2D cartoons

I'm not a virgin. Idc if I never marry or have kids I can be comfy earning 65k a year then. I'm only 22 and enjoy partying/clubing ect I don't really care if I don't have a gf. theres always escorts too.

>always want to be a game developer
>"oh man oh jeez first programming course this is going to be awesome"
>two courses of turbo PASCAL and Delphi later decide to never have anything to do with programming ever again
>some friends end up in the industry working as 3D animators
>say they're glad they aren't programmers, shit pay, treated like dirt, work obscene hours, most of them easy to replace

So glad I didn't fall for the meme.

>all these cunts hating on windows shit
>forgetting that it's literally everywhere and big businesses spend a fortune to keep it alive
just stack my shekels up

My 10 years of c++ experience will never be replaced by Pajeet, suck it lads

- more work (it's probably standard practice the IT department had to do to thousands of corporate laptops)
- voids warranty

This. All these idiots who whine about taking out a loan to go to college while putting no thought into how they are going to actually make a living are going to end up managing a Starbucks.

Meanwhile, someone can teach themselves to code virtually for free, build some resume experience, and get a decent paying job without going into debt. Their experience only grows and they become more in demand and make more money over time.

can i work at home?

can i lie to myself and keep telling myself I will be the next hideo kojima?

>If the guy's a 'Chad' then women will flock to him
This may shock you, but "manly" professions aren't full of Chads. They're just full of people who aren't good enough for something better. I'm telling you that from experience. All in all, a non-Chad programmer has better odds than a non-Chad car mechanic.

>every stupid as fuck question everywhere is some pajeet cunt
>somehow they're going to replace us
yeah nah, we're good senpai

>Thinks game development is accurate portrayal of entire industry.
>Doesn't know game development studios are run like sweat shops with very few exceptions.

Stay woke.

>He thought I would be repairing computers in a shop for a living.

Holy shit, can he just not listen?

Programming seems like a fun thing to learn but I doubt my ability to pick up on it / understand it.

speaking to foreigners without being an ignorant cunt, does not mean your a SJW.

There are shades of gray in the world mate.

Coding is not a job where you ever really get to just go on autopilot huh? Everything I've ever worked on required constant learning.

Top kek, it's true. Fucking pajeets ask the stupidest questions, literally shit tier zero effort.

You're correct but the 20/80 rule is infallible. I am a programmer so I agree it's better than being a mechanic but even 'high IQ' women are primal in nature

99% of my coworkers share Huffpo articles unironically on Faceberg. 1% are lolbertardians shilling Muh gary. This industry attracts only leftists imo

Not even a fucking Pajeet would want your warm spot in C++ template hell. Fucking awful...

>If the guy's a 'Chad' then women will flock to him regardless of his profession.

True

And if you're a nerd they won't magically flock to you becasue you change tires for a living.
Having a stable, reasonably high paying office job is a decent compensation for bad looks and awkward social skills.
Lack of female co-workers does mean you need to take up a hobby or something to meet girls though.

please provide some jobs that can't be outsourced
:^)

love this shit. but we have to be careful it doesn't lead to big brother

>.50c monopoly bux have been deposited into your emu

My delivery for next Friday ask me to make a self improving heuristics function using neural nets. Surely they must exist.

>pascal, delphi
>surprised it sucked

Good to know.

Good point.

i like you

I knew a guy who actually WANTED to be an animator and can confirm that he was a broken human being within 2 years of it

>Coding is not a job where you ever really get to just go on autopilot huh?
Depends how much you plan, how boilerplate-y your language of choice is and if you have any tools to make it quicker. When I have a full database plan written out, I can easily zomb out and write all the database objects without thinking at all, but solving a problem always requires brainpower.

If you're not in the top 20% of males the best thing of course is to compensate with money and status. There's really little purpose to marriage anymore when ivf and surrogate mothers are a thing

yeah haters gonna hate.

I use linux at home, but there is good money in knowing Microsoft

This. You don't need to go to school to learn this junk anymore, in fact, I'd recommend against it. The people that are already going to do well aren't going to learn at the sluggish pace of a post-secondary class.

I knew someone that used to do web development in highschool for quick bucks; he then decided to go to Full Sail for game programming because video gaemz.

He's now 120k in debt, writing mobile money generators with 15 other people, earning maybe about 40k a year of his 72k a year after tax after paying into the debt. And arguably? He's probably 10 times as stupid since he's gone to school.

Just learn on your own, and build up a portfolio. You'll learn more, learn quicker, and earn more in the end since you aren't in any kind of debt.

Post-Secondary is a total meme for fields like this.

It's a fucking job for a specific skillset and there are still good paying jobs for it. Most indians still can't do basic troubleshooting, so westerners still have at least a good 2 decades of employment.

Is teaching yourself IT/programming to the point where you can get a job just a meme on the same level as "go do underwater welding and retire at 35", or is there actually some legitimacy to it?

Khan, Code camps, etc - do they jerk you around or are they worth it?

Reddit has subreddits that are a literal mirror of Cred Forums

>Is teaching yourself IT/programming to the point where you can get a job
You'll have an advantage over the numbskulls who get themselves into debt going to uni to do stuff internet tutorials can teach you

Can confirm, I cut my teeth on Linux but I work for a .Net shop. It feels dirty but it keeps me employed.

Don't most jobs in this area require a diploma as a "I am capable of getting a college degree" certification?

At the rate things are going, self teaching AI's wont really learn anything considerable for at least a good decade or two.

>love this shit. but we have to be careful it doesn't lead to big brother
In the future all processors will have quantum entangled articles that will transmit everything going on at the lowest level, no fighting that

I get $62.50 an hour to sit at home and jerk off and sometimes write code. And I just graduated college.

I've only met one self-taught programmer in the industry, and his first employer paid for him to go to university, but that was in the early 90s and I guarantee you won't find a job like that now unless you're related to your boss. I've certainly never seen a job listing that didn't require at least a 2:1 in an appropriate degree.

Are you talking about WordPress? I laughed my balls off when I quit my job for some asshole after custom building his site for a years. Fine tuning the database queries for optimization, custom plugins tailored to his needs. After I left he couldn't find anybody who could do it because I was doing it for shit pay and all the "WordPress devs" for hire were just people like you who basically edit css scripts.

leaf

>Thinks game development is accurate portrayal of entire industry.
I don't, my brother works for a business IT company and makes good money with 8 hour days my uncle and my mom also made long careers in IT. That said, games development was the main thing that attracted a lot of kids like me to programming. Good thing those awful course discouraged me early on so I didn't end up in the local Ubishit sweatshop.

People always go "Wow why did they even teach you those, nobody uses Delphi", to me these languages say little to nothing at all, but I guess they were the cheapest ones around for the school to use. The teacher wasn't even a programmer or anything of the sort, just a physics teacher who was the biggest cuck in the staff and was coaxed into teaching the courses.

Yeah, my animator friends also work insane hours and flat out say if you aren't all about dedicating yourself to that shit, you won't survive for long. The difference is that they're pretty much irreplaceable and have the money to burn.

Healthcare construction and resource extraction. Of course that doesn't mean you can't fuck them up with migrants and bankruptcies in favour of foreign companies.

Okay, how do I do this?
I am learning Python at the moment by myself.
How exactly do I find projects to do once I am competent at it?

It's real. Lots of people make money by just making Smartphone videogames or just pc games. Or regular smartphone apps. Do you chec k when you download an app if the developer graduated from College? Nop. You just get the app because it is useful.

I went to college to study computer systems engineering and I can tell you it is a waste of time and money. You should narrow down your objectives, do you want to be a web developer? AI programmer? Graphic designer? Just get a few books and learn from them. Literally college is just that, they get a guy to read from a book and explain the book to you.

Yeah, and all the gamers. Imagine people climbing and jumping between benches in the auditoriums.

Code boot camps are expensive as shit and if you're a noob then 8/10 you'll be lost. Don't go to them if you're starting from zero knowledge.

There are free online courses and they're not spam ridden shitfests, they're actually meant to be a public service run by dedicated folks.

Khan Academy, Code Academy, and some others are fine.

That's a job listing. That's only relevant until you get your foot in the door. A resume showing real world experience is too valuable for an employer to pass up.

>Is teaching yourself IT/programming to the point where you can get a job just a meme

Depends on how intelligent you are.

Someone of average intelligence will never make it.
But if you are smart enough you can learn it quite quickly.

Just take up a personal project and see how well you do and how much you like it.

>tfw on my third year of a BS in computer programming rather than computer science

Am I fucked?

It's an easy way to filter out zero effort retards.

Find a local coding Meetup (the Meetup app for Android or iOS) and talk to people there, if you can find a person to recommend you in then your chances of finding a job there will be 10x higher than everybody else.

I like codewars, its for polishing up already learned languages.

from what ass have you pulled this out of, user.

Are people really making money with phone apps? Last time I looked into it, it hardly seemed worth the time. What do they end up making, $2 per hour?

>A resume showing real world experience is too valuable for an employer to pass up.

Very true.

I've lead many job interviews.
It was always about experience, never about degrees.
If someone was fresh out of university I would ask about his projects.

Only in the sense that you are probably going into debt and unless you are already focusing your experience building in one area, you're still going to have to do this after graduating.

> can go whenever I want to. No minimum working hours and fixed monthly pay
> No clients to deal with
> the satishfaction of making something that millions of people use is priceless

Im ok with it

23 year old, working for two years now, getting decent wage, bought my own house but I never get into contact with any women. It's a male dominated field. I've lost interest in them, so that worked out eventually I guess. Though I don't die without having my virginity taken.

Go to GitHub.com. I'm actually surprised nobody has brought it up in this thread.

Find open source projects and start contributing. It's volunteer work but having that on your resume and being able to talk with confidence and substance will get your foot in the door at least.

i did it

You do not need to be smart to code, just mildly autistic

If you're really high tier you can do some shit. Knew a guy who was very smart and great programmer, he was autistic as fuck though. Could only speak to an adult he liked. Dude made over 500k over the summer making some shit for companies.

It's becoming less and less the case; at least from what I've seen. Several of my coworkers got their positions with a well built portfolio. I'd imagine more intensive fields like embedded programming probably require a degree of some kind, but even then I've known people to be able to just enter so long as they can sell themselves in an interview with a well crafted, relevant portfolio.

There seems to be a bit of rising sentiment that people who have graduated with a degree tend to be less able and less equipped to take on a job. Which isn't entirely untrue; as an earlier user said, a couple of programming classes does not a programmer make, and a lot of people don't put effort into the career outside of class.

If you want to work out of the country is usually when you need a degree; but even then I'm certain some countries waive the diploma/degree requirement if you have working experience. I know under NAFTA you can have it waived with three years of working experience.

The way I see it:

Teach yourself + college degree -> Profit
Only college degree -> Most likely little profit
Only teach yourself -> Maybe profit if you're good and can get your foot in the door

I don't know if code camps / programming courses / etc are really worth it. Honestly I would just start working on stuff like computer games, Raspberry pi / Arduino projects or what ever you actually find interesting and fun.

Also, even if you're not gonna get a degree, get some student status and leverage that for a temp programmer job to get a career started.

Haha, jelly non-STEM tards.

>long hours

I work under 40 hours a week. My typical day I come in 10-10:30, take an hour lunch, then leave at 5:30.
I live in Southern California, sometimes on my lunch break I'll go the the beach and surf for 2 hours.
I'm about to start working remote and coming in to the office once a week for meetings, needless to say this will not increase my hours.

>Shit pay because compete with India

Nah, you get what you pay for.
I don't work on the corporate contracts because I talk too much shit so they don't put me in front of people who wear a suit and tie, but most of those contracts we got from companies that outsourced and got shit code then it was cheaper for us to start over then try to salvage it.
Most of the foreigns in America make shit pay, but part of that is communication and part is visa status issues.
My company also hires programmers that work off site on contract and they won't hire anyone who speaks less than perfect English because the companies will complain.
Seriously though programmer is one of highest paying careers in US.
I was basically down to my last dollar when I graduated college but I paid off my 30k student loans in 2 years and bought a brand new car cash so I wouldn't have another loan.

>guarenteed to never get a gf

I went to an engineering school and probably 2/3 of the guys in my graduating class I would put hard money on being virgins, there was one girl in my major.
That said I do alright, some people are autists for sure but not at my job.
There was one neckbeard but he was a paid intern.
I later found out his dad was the CEO of a fortune 500 company which is 100% the only reason he ever got the job.

It's all how you carry yourself.
Some people at my company are beta and they work super long hours for the same money I do.
I came from a manual labor background so I carry myself unlike most programmers.

you can wash the dirt off, at least you're not a poorfag

>A resume showing real world experience is too valuable for an employer to pass up.
That's completely at the discretion of whoever in HR sees your CV, by all means apply to such jobs, but don't be surprised if your application is thrown away because you didn't appear to read the criteria for the position. And you need to find a job at a company that won't do that before you can get any "real world experience".

I wish I was aspie enough to do that.

I don't fully understand this, but OK.

lel

Intradasting. The grades for CS classes tend to have a similar distribution. Half of them dragging themselves across the finish line while the other half bitches about the course being too slow paced.

There are also things like WordPress where the documentation is incomplete, it's not taught in depth schools as far as developing for the framework goes, and the only way to learn how is to dive into the code. Meanwhile, what is it? 80% of the web is running a WordPress site now?

I just volunteered to throw a few 5 page small business sites together for people I knew and then managed to get paid experience from there.

Resource extraction has seen loads of jobs automated by computer programmers and killed a lot of jobs. See the example of dump trucks being automated in certain Australian mines. There is no longer a job for the truck driver. He/she would have to retrain or rely on other skills to find a job. The programmer could then apply his/her skill from automating dump trucks to automating a self loading brick carrier or a hospital alarm system. Etc. I think all industries are open to at least some automation and the people doing those automations are primarily computer programmers.

Oracle is so fucking bad, I have to work with that weird 80s technology and it's so time consuming and frustrating. SQL Server might not be the best DB ever, but the tooling and easy of use really has it's benefits if you don't need the super special features of Oracle, which are all buggy anyways.

Assuming you can get past HR/other recruitment morons. They are the ones that look for degrees and keywords, recruitment in tech is a complete shit show. We put retards in charge of it because nobody has figured out a way to do it without passing up top tier and filtering out shit tier.

tfw working on automated theorem proving on a top-tier research level. For you plebs automated reasoning means code generation from a verified mathematically sound framework made in say coq or agda. No chance to dive in without a solid math background.

Good luck code monkeys

Unless you're a real code monkey (ie: you write single functions to match pre-determined specifications) you need a metal overview of systems that could grow quite large and complex.
If you lack such overview you will end up doing more harm than good.

Also, finding solutions for non-trivial programs requires a lot of creative thinking. (that's where the real fun is in, btw).
Even most people with university degrees can't think creatively like that.

It's completely and totally the same -- top tier will reach ahead because they "get it" but bottom tier will barely make it if not completely washed out.

>Half the class in the first month of college.

Honestly, I would never subject myself to such an Office Space scenario. I'd rather they are the ones calling me to work for them than the other way around.

Getting hired is a skillset on its own though. A little social networking (not social media) goes a long way.

Oh lol. This shit is popular in Russia too. Many young men take programming high education. Thats weird. Fuck this.

Yes people are making money on apps.

The two apps I worked on last year for clients have something like 50k users each and they've only been out a couple months and they are $5 a pop to download.

Also apps are like the new websites.
A lot of businesses have their own apps and that number is only going to increase.
The same way in the late 90s if you didn't have a website you were fucked as a business, that's how it is becoming for apps.
I do iOS apps and I hate Apple but I like developing for iOS more than doing another shitty website and ever having to look at CSS again.

>even 'high IQ' women are primal in nature
All humans are primal in nature. The difference between low-IQ humans and high-IQ humans is in how self-aware they are and how willing they are to delay gratification in order to satisfy higher-level goals and needs. Either way, we can both agree that getting a job as a programmer doesn't transform you from a Chad into a non-Chad so it's all pretty moot.

Yes it's a roller coaster experience where nobody around you understands the battle you fought to will something into creation. Nobody to share your epic victory. The kind where your brain is forming abstract connections to multiple problems while you sleep and then once you form an intuitive solution you begin working backwards to make it a reality. Nobody understands.

So you're saying in maybe 10-20 years ReSharper code generation will actually work? Awesome.

>That's completely at the discretion of whoever in HR sees your CV

At all the companies I've worked for CV's were passed to the other programmers for evaluation.
There was also a programmer present at the initial interviews.

A company must be absolute shit to leave the evaluation of a programmer to someone who doesn't know the first thing about programming.

Oh I can see making money when a company hires you to make a mobile site wrapper "app" or much more money to build a custom app. I was thinking along the lines of people who just make their own apps/games and put them in the market. I don't see that generating a lot of revenue.

+1 fuck CSS.

nothing wrong with big brother

Right. That is not the type of company you want to work for. They are doing you a huge favor.

thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/

The highest earning game only makes $1,960,078 per day.

Not worth the time really.

Some foreign guy I work with made some futbol score tracking app that he declined to sell for 2 million dollars.

>At all the companies I've worked for CV's were passed to the other programmers for evaluation.
For a final candidate at a small company, no doubt, not every single CV that was received. Large companies will get thousands of applications for every job, that's why CV filtering software was invented, and making sure the candidate matches the posting is a basic setting in all of them.

It's cool. Having a Slavic surname is actually an asset in IT.

>Nobody to share your epic victory.

At my previous company we started the day with a stand-up meeting where we talked about our struggles and the brilliant solutions we found.

Also, chances are one of your colleagues will read your code eventually to make improvements / fix bugs.
And then they can see how much of a genius / retard you are.

>tfw roleplaying kraut thinks this will ever be suitable for general-purpose programming, doesn't understand that his drop in the bucket is destined to fade into obscurity like all previous attempts because it's mostly a masturbatory academic exercise disconnected from the real world

:/

>Large companies will get thousands of applications for every job

Not programming jobs.

Unless it's Google or Facebook, all companies large and small have trouble finding enough programmers.

You're right.

>Pic related.

>actually having to see effort in logical thinking etc

thats cucked thats why im in law school

The sad reality is that 99% of apps make next to nothing due to many factors, one of them is over-saturation of the market, you can spend 6 months working on an app that can go into obscurity after being released. People always look at the successes and forget that there's thousands of people thinking like you.

I dont know how's the situation on the states but in europe we are having a huge lack of programmers. It seems reasonable they are shilling for more
t. Pajeet-tier SAP consultant

Keep ignoring any maybe it goes away

dont worry, this scientific picture will tell you everything you need to know

I've released a few games. The reality is that most people who think they are releasing a good quality game are actually releasing something that looks like it was made by a high school student.

Take a game like Crossy Road for example. I don't think that game could have failed even if they did no marketing whatsoever.

I was in IT and going the programmer route when I realized exactly what you posted. The lifestyle required to stay competitive means you have to either be autistic with no life or be cheap labor. And since the autists can't do anything else, the pajeets and future chinks are driving wages down and making them both autistic and poorly compensated. Basically a recipe for misery. And even the successful well-paid well-rounded developers I worked with were not happy people.

Because programming is enjoyable and getting paid to do something you enjoy is optimal

So how do you feel about the H1B visa program being abused to lower your overall pay? And you know congress is going to loosen the H1B program even more, open up full throttle, because that's what corporations want.

Nice projection, krautbro. Stay in your academic echo-chamber where they'll tell you how important your toy paradigm is. :)

One reason for that is burnout. So many programmers get out of programming and into other career paths once they can afford to take the risk.

Or they become managers.

I do miss the creative abstract thinking. That's the only thing I miss about it. I really hated how suits expected magic out of some movie.

>finding solutions for non-trivial programs requires a lot of creative thinking

There's almost none of that left unless you do some groundbreaking R&D. Most programmers are glorified plumbers connecting components that implement solutions to sub-problems that have been solve decades ago.

>Cred Forums Pass user since October 2016.

What a faggot.

None of those are true unless you're a loser.

The only argument against my job, is that it hurts my back (and health in general). I developed a small hernia after years of not sitting correctly on my desk because I would get tired of sitting at the same "correct" position for long hours.

Also, game developer trick:
Steal someone else's idea, change the name, add micropayments, release app.

Just find some popular games for smartphone, change the name, change a little bit of the gameplay and nobody will be able to sue you. See: Subway surfers, Temple Run, etc.

thats why I switched from cs to ce my freshman year.

cs has been ruined by all the liberal arts fags and ez pz 4th generation languages

Try it and be shocked when almost no one finds your app in the first place and the people who do spend 10 minutes playing it on average before uninstalling. The first few who did this made some good money. The other 190942313 Pajeets just fill up app stores with junk.

Because the demand for programmers is very high so the (((establishment))) is inciting people to learn it

t. Threw away my Bachelor's in Computer Science to go study History and realize that no matter what I did I'd be a NEET all my life until I killed myself

It's fun.

Getting some complicated engine to run from scratch is as good a feeling as getting a real physical engine to run from scratch.

Programming is also the most frustrating job possible in the world. You will never get as mad at anything in your whole entire life ever.

>no one finds your app

That is what ads are for. I think a big part of the success of big games (like angry birds) is that the companies run aggressive publicity campaigns on websites, youtube, television etc. Also social spamming on social networks and forums probably

Don't learn programming based redpilled young westerner.

Instead, wallow in your poverty, loneliness and misery and blame your government for it.

>long hours
>shit pay
Counter example: I work 9 hours a day on average and earn $160k (incl. bonuses).
Granted, there are many "terrible" programming jobs out there. Any half-witted engineer won't fall for those though.

>aggressive publicity campaigns
Yes, and that's exactly why you're not going to be making money from your "game developer trick" any time soon, so I'm not sure what your point is. Good luck finding the money to run an aggressive publicity campaign.

which language would you reccomend for a semi noob? i mean one to get clearly proficient at and maybe easy to build into other languages from

maybe one that i can readily use for side jobs as i get better?

side note- i went on a kayaking trip recently and bonded with a jew over our love for bagels. everyone had to carry food so we hoarded the bagels and cream cheese and made the females go without

I think it's good to do terrible jobs for your starting work. It'll make you appreciate other jobs a lot more.

After working seven years with nothing but niggers I was glad to get a job that had mildly competent people as co-workers even if the pay was worse.

C# and Python

Pick one and spend about a year learning it then go to the next. After than move up to C++ and learn Java on the side just for the experience.

I'm just a random neet who did 3 years of Bachelor's in computer science, but I can tell we started with C++ and did most of the years with it
Then I moved north and my new uni only used C
We also had some additionnal courses with different languages

>oh no an obstacle in my way
>i will just give up and be a neet

thanks guys and thanks for abandoning me jew. no bagels 4 u

Learn one of the Lisp variants before your mind has been poisoned with absolute garbage like C# or Python. Not only will you be a better programmer, but you'd also be:
1. more likely to find a job that involves more than connecting pre-built components and maintaining OOP spaghetti
2. less likely to be easily replaceable => safer to ask for higher pay and better working conditions

It doesn't work that way becuase boomers think university means something when it comes to programming, so a lot of places require at least a bachelors in software engineering.

>Gold 4 Gold
I have 4lbs of Gold, how much Gold can I get for that?

interesting. thank you brother

>which language would you recommend for a semi noob?
That chiefly depends on the domain your pursuing.
If you wanna have a go at embedded development, high-performance computing, graphics and so on - I'd advise you to focus on C & C++.
If you're aiming for web development - JavaScript, CSS, HTML.
Python,Ruby & Java work out fairly well as a wildcard, so take a look at those too.

You'd do well to remember that domain expertise matters a lot more than knowledge of one language or the other.

>I think it's good to do terrible jobs for your starting work.
Chances are you won't have much of a say in the matter. Most people (sans the exceptional few) start at the trenches and work their way upwards over time.

Cred Forums is very negative.

Why be anything? Why not live in a cardboard box in your mother's crawlspace?

There's a decent market for programmers right now. Entry level programmers can earn a good middle/upper-middle class salary. Programmers farther along in their career can make very good money.

And not everyone does it solely for the money. Many begin programming as a hobby and discover that they would like to turn it into a career.

>neural networks
>new
no friendo

Autism.

your dick will never get any bigger

met a guy in comp sci who after three years would still use pointer to integers instead of simple "int" whenever he needed to store a number . And there was no reason for that, he just had no idea about programming.
He still graduated before other people who were at least twice as smart as he was.

I don't know about other institutions or countries but if you want to learn how to computers in Spain, you definitely don't need to go to college .

is any particular domain you'd recommend with good job security?

This is a picture of me.

>implying actual koreans post on 4chinz
>implying we aren't all teachers/soldiers/vacationers

toplel

Long hours? Lol what? Maybe on deployment day but that's it and we're well compensated.

Outsourcing and hiring Pajeet's has slowed down majorly because it wasn't worth it. This isn't like call center work or being a builder, it actually takes some brains to be a programmer. Literally half my work until recently was fixing poor work done by Indians, the only reason that dried up is because companies are no longer stupid enough to rely on them anymore.

But please keep spreading these myths, the fewer people coming into the industry the better for me.

yeah, computer science is even worse, but you're fucked

Because there's a huge demand for it. They'll be needing 1400000 programmers in the next few years just in the states alone and we normally just graduate 400,000 a year.

it will if you continue stroking it

last question for everyone that's responded to me, thanks so much. Am I fucked if I hated calculus? You don't need to be a calc whiz do you? I'm sure in time i'd get good at, but...

Here you basically unlearn programming.

I've learned more about 3d modeling in my own time than programming from the university, shit's completely fucked, and from what i hear from other places it's not much better there either.

I study CS and there's this guy who shows up to the lectures and just plays minecraft on his laptop the whole time. I don't even know why he shows up. Lectures aren't mandatory.

My point is that the post of yours that started this exchange completely leaves out the part where you actually need a decent sum of money for your plan to be viable. It's obviously doable, but cloning some existing popular game is maybe 15% of the overall effort. Furthermore, I used to work in a company that operates like that as the analytics guy, and I can tell you that every minor detail has an impact on user retention. You can't just copy another game verbatim, but you never know how the minor changes you make are going to affect the game's success and trying to get inside the mind of the average pleb that plays this sort of rubbish is nearly impossible.

Because they all think they'll be having fun programming video games and be rich like that minecraft guy.

I haven't had any formal maths education since I was 16. I never learnt calculus in the first place. It's never mattered in all the time I've been programming.

The man who made flappy bird must've been the pleb whisperer. 50k a day i'd stand on my head and blow myself if I pulled that off

>Be in the university hall
>Yearly signups so a million people
>One guy pushes through the crowd as he is about to leave
>Says HAHA I USED BRUTE FORCE, HA BRUTE FORCE DUDE, GET IT BRUTE FORCE at the top of his lungs.

thank jesus

My personal preferences are embedded development & InfoSec.
As to job security - hard to say, most places I've been at were flaky in that regard. Frankly, it's better to constantly sharpen your knives rather than hope for job security at any given company - especially when the demand for *good* engineers far exceeds the supply (at least in Israel & USA, can't speak for Europe or Asia).

They're probably uggos.

you already know calculus if you're not retarded/autistic so you'll be fine if you really wanna take programming

Depends on the type of geek culture. The place I worked over summer was pretty much Cred Forums.

Awesome, thanks. I'm about to go for a cisco security cert just cuz my father is offering me a trip to learn it, but I want to learn some other skills on my own

This.

The Indians who are worth a damn get brought over into good counries and demand pay of $60 an hour minimum.

Deployment days can be rough, but I get paid $72 an hour with a health care processing specialization.

Not to mention silicon valley is cratering. Rents in SF have started to fall, which means that there aren't enough jobs anymore to stoke demand for prole containment units.

If you were the sort of kid that was playing with electronics and fucking with arduinos - go for it. Everyone else that has a real choice? Find something else. I suggest drug dealing or prostitution.

I actually have a very well off for our age friend that is a self learned coder. He said he failed calculus. He drives a Porsche and lives in a high-rise

Anybody else still mind=blown at how computers actually work? Knowing a programming language is one thing - it is written in english terms, so while difficult it is still only base level in terms of complexity and knowledge. But how is it actually interpreted by computers at the binary level? Who actually achieved that and how? How are things output to a monitor? How the fuck was someone smart enough to work with electrical signals at a motherboard and CPU level so that it outputs a useable interface on to a screen. Where the fuck would you even start if you wanted to make an operating system? There are truly genius people in this world

Eh, one day they'll find a way to replace you with a poo-in-loo. Management always wins, even when they lose.

>only industry where you can literally build something from scratch and make tons of money out of it as a business
>why would you want to do that????????????

yea if youre just working for some asshole as a programmer it sucks, but the business opportunities that exist from knowing how to program are huge

I see a shitload of jobs for .net c# active directory and so on all the time.

I kinda want to learn more, but having to learn something without any real world reason to do it is a trial. Learning by yourself isn't something I think most people can do, there has to be a tangible benefit to things or the motivation dies.

There will always be some people who win the lottery. The guy who made Flappy Bird got lucky when some semi-popular Twitter user accidentally stumbled upon this game and liked it. The guy has never made anything successful ever since and if you release a game the way he did, chances are no one influential will find it even if it's good.

Check out youtube on how mips goes through the CPU.

It's cyclical. But management wins even when they're losing. They still have a job.

And now they are used to shit post hardcore. God bless them.

>he didnt ride the indie scene boom and made his own game and hundreds of thousands of dollars

???

Game development can be looked at as a lottery for absolutely huge wins like Flappy Bird or Minecraft, but there's a viable middleground where if your game is above a threshold of quality you can build a reliable business out of it. Yes, you'll sell like 10k-20k copies on Steam or something, but that's usually enough for you to fund your next game and continue your game. As you get better and better so do your games and so do your chances of one of your games going big.

You only need advanced mathematics if you're gonna do 3d stuff, collision detection, science software etc. It doesn't hurt to know basic vectors and shit (for example to program movement of characters in a field) but it is not necessary to be a math wiz.

Most people in my class who got a job after graduating were doing stuff on their own the whole time they were studying. A friend of mine would always talk to me about things he found out and things he developed, while we were waiting for the class to start
>"hey look i found a new game engine"
>"look i made a car model in 3d in my smartphone"
>"look i made a silly racing game"
When he graduated he already had his own small company and I think right now he's got like 20 or 30 people working for him.
I think all the people who went there to get a diploma ended up working in supermarkets , Decathlon or Mediamarkt (big companies like Walmart)

Agree that I could be totally wrong, I just have started to notice how many games out there are just copies of other less popular games. And the only difference between "shitty indie game" and "PLAY STORE BEST SELLER" is usually advertisement.

>mind=blown at how computers actually work
errr you know all this started with vacuum tubes a million years ago? Computers were literally just punch card readers, they were slow and huge. They are complex indeed but the basics are pretty simple (binary for example)
>But how is it actually interpreted by computers at the binary level
a piece of software translates from high level (like C++) into machine code, which is just another language that is too cumbersome to program with.
>How are things output to a monitor
You map all the pixels in the screen and then flash a certain color to every pixel.
>Where the fuck would you even start if you wanted to make an operating system
Learn a programming language , learn about logic gates, buy a few logic gates, resistors, a display and start working

Something funny, my dad is a manager at a big corporation, and back in the day his friend at dell tried to headhunt him to come on as a VP, his company countered a few days before we moved and now he makes more money than VP's.

I know he's not a CEO or whatever but it's cool and I'm proud that he's so wanted at his position. Survived a lot of layoffs

> "PLAY STORE BEST SELLER" is usually advertisement.

It's not even advertisement, it's unironically memes.

This. Whenever we do anything with clients that have an Oracle db, it takes so much more effort.

If the job ad also is calling for a master's degree - that typically a poo-in-loo ad, and it's bogus. Don't respond to it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>her

>there's a viable middleground where if your game is above a threshold of quality you can build a reliable business out of it
It doesn't matter how good your game is if it doesn't get any publicity in an oversaturated market. This especially applies to the mobile game market, but it's now also true for platforms like Steam. You either find some investors and use money to generate publicity, use your ties\reputation, or just hope to be one of the lucky few. I know you really want to believe that if only you make a decent game, everything else will be fine. I know that would be the "fair" outcome. But that's not how reality works.

No school worth anything teaches '4th gen' ie c#, python, java etc until at least 3rd year.

If your school doesn't force you into barebones c or asm within your first 2 years you need to leave

Actually no, if you make a decent game, someone will play it, and then eventually a youtuber will showcase it, and you'll get some more people playing it.

You wont be the minecraft meme guy, but you'll have a nice sustainable business.

>2016
>not learning how to program AI, to resurrect Tay.

shiggy diggy doo tbqh senpai

What about viral marketing? Do you think it is possible to circumvent the money wall by just spending a fraction in some viral advertising and spamming the Internet with it? I won't say that does not cost money, but it would probably be easier to make your game popular by linking it to a viral campaign

>This especially applies to the mobile game market
That's true

>but it's now also true for platforms like Steam.
That's false.

On Steam, if your game is above a certain threshold of quality there will be a number of people who will pay attention to it and you will sell enough to fund your next game. From games like this store.steampowered.com/app/447530/ to this store.steampowered.com/app/383230/ that no one has ever heard of, if your game is good enough it will generate enough interest in enough people for you to be able to build a business out of it.

I've already done a degree in Physics. If I learn coding will that give me a uniquely useful skill set/knowledge base or is Physics just a nice grounding in Maths as far as coding is concerned?

>someone will play it
>then eventually a youtuber will showcase it

That's a very big logical leap right there. You can keep claiming that I'm wrong, but you're not really providing any solid logic or evidence to back it up. You can look at the app store stats and see that the vast, vast majority of games released barely make any money. Attribute it to low quality if you want, but the truth is that they make it very difficult to stumble upon a good one by accident.

the math you already learned in physics will likely make a great combination with programming. i don't know about physics itself but it's a great combo.

if you want to learn about AI for example, neural networks, it's good to know differential geometry.

You bsp them based on key I'd imagine? and stuff depending on your clients requests.

>viral marketing
That's possible, but it takes some serious skill and creativity to pull off. Even big companies who hire people specifically for the task often fail at it. It's all doable and being done all the time, but there's no free lunch. Bottom line is that you need to know what you're getting into and the risks\costs\likelihood of success of different strategies to make the most out of whatever time\money you have available to invest in it.

>css scripts
is this bait?

I'm not even talking about the mobile market.

The mobile market is horrible and getting into it, without an EA tier publisher is just retarded.
For PC however.
Look at a game called onward, it's successful enough, and it has no marketing outside of people who play it and like it.
Look at anything gravteam makes, look at matrix games anything.
There may be a lot of games, but there are a lot of shit games, and the sim market is today a nice growing niche yet again.

Anyway the entire industry is heading toward a crash, and i think only niche games with loyal costumers will survive.

>You can keep claiming that I'm wrong, but you're not really providing any solid logic or evidence to back it up.
Also perhaps you should take you should make use of these things you preach.

If you want to program networks physics is very useful.
Same with professional simulations.

Physics can be quite useful, even if it isn't i too high of a demand outside certain niches.

>assumptions and wishful thinking
That's not a business plan. Not saying you shouldn't try it. I'm just saying don't quit your day job if you're gonna try it.

For what it's worth, I've interviewed probably 50 or so recent college grads for entry level software developer. We do 3-4 tests based on your resume to assess your problem solving and whether you're padding your resume:

1. Parse a basic c# console app and determine its output
2. Tell the results of various sql queries
3. If applicable, explain the results of a jquery Ajax post given values etc (dependent on experience)
4. Given an irate sysadmin at company y, help him troubleshoot why one of our products is not working etc.

We expect RCGs to know at a minimum how to pass c#. Even if they've never seen it we can assist on api.

The most important one is the troubleshooting scenario as we get to see a completely unrehearsed action, response to pressure, and your composure. This one clears the most people out.

Also, wanted to point out that a rcg with a bs has no measurable difference than a nonexperienced masters holder. In most cases they're more entitled and worse performing.

Your best bet as an independent is not trying to go for any viral marketing of any kind but just using sites like Cred Forums, reddit, and so on to shill your game. This usually generates enough interest and puts your game on people's radar. From there you can try contacting YouTubers and streamers for extra visibility but other than that there isn't much you can do other than having a solid trailer, etc, etc.

>Not saying you shouldn't try it.
user...

I understand your overall point but you should analyze the market more clearly. You can get data from SteamSpy and you'll see that what I'm saying is true. There was a boom for indies a few years ago, but now the market has normalized. You won't be making hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars (unless you get somewhat lucky) but the viable middleground I talked about is very real.

>how to make a lot of money developing videogames

To add to this, the most important part about marketing actually comes in the design phase of the game. Too often people just make a game and then after it's done they'll start thinking about marketing, when that's totally wrong. You should think about marketing from day 1 because that way you can design a game that will actually have an audience and it will make your job much easier later on than if you designed without caring about anything.

Web development is different from regular programming bud

>perhaps you should take you should make use of these things you preach.

Well, here's the thing. I'm just telling you things I know from my own experience and that of other people in the field that I'm familiar with. I can't prove to you that hoping that people just find and like your game isn't a good strategy if only because it's all a matter of risks vs. costs. If you have nothing to lose from trying and you don't have the money to tip the odds in your favor, then it's obviously the best you can do. All I'm trying to explain to you here is that the burden of proof that your plan will work is on you, and you owe it to yourself, not to me. If I was going to invest my time/money in something, I know I would make an attempt to objectively assess my odds of success instead of relying on the "everything will be fine" mantra and my selection bias (i.e. "it worked out for those 50 people right there" is not an argument when you never hear about the other 1000 who failed).

how so?

>more claims
I'm getting pretty bored with this. Like I explained to the other guy, the burden of proof that your plan is viable is on you, and you owe it to yourself. See: