I used to be right-wing. I used to post here, years ago. Looking back...

This is pretty good bait OP. The only way this could be true is if you were raised right-wing and had never even considered social constructionism before. It's babys first red pill.

>i used to like fascism
>i now like the kind of fascism that lies and says its very nice and friendly
good luck sucking cock

>leftypol trying to use the pol techniques

How cute

CTR BAIT THREAD
>CTR BAIT THREAD
CTR BAIT THREAD
>CTR BAIT THREAD
CTR BAIT THREAD
>CTR BAIT THREAD

>This is the real world, people are evil, races are real and have diferent capacities, women are worst than men in any form and people are chaotic by nature.

People aren't evil. People do evil things when they're impoverished or deranged. There is not reason why anyone on this Earth should live in poverty or squalor. However, that is how capitalism operates. Poverty is the fuel that animates it.

0

Cred Forums wasn't right wing "years" ago. This thread is full of newfags and OP is, as always, a giant fucking faggot

Cred Forums, Kissinger, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, Charles Murray

are you aware that socialism+nationalism are possible to be used in a single sentence burger? chomsky is god, he's reading jews like a open book. there are many flavors of left, stalinism is only one of them.

What kind of Socialist do you consider yourself to be? What principles of Marx, Lenin, and Engels do you believe to be attainable?

I studied communism and Marx last year, and I've read much of his and Engels work. Despite this, I remain third positional in most aspects of political perspectives.

I would like to know what specifically swung you over.

My belief as to why I never did is that I think Fascism and Communism are at the foundation based on Hobbes vs Locke, and philosophically speaking I side with Hobbes. Picking a point on human nature is something you develop personally, not through reading political philosophy. What are your thoughts?

So, you were "conservative" just to be edgy, and now have gone full retard by falling for the socialist meme because it's even edgier. Cool story, bro.

So, the inherent flaws in socialism don't stick out to you? You might have a case of the dipshits, you should get that checked out.

>One word faggot: Venuswela.

>implying the banks are "good"
>implying that capitalism hasn't done more to reduce poverty in the world then any other economic system ever including every communistic/socialist regime.

I promote democratization. If you expect me to defend anti-democratic/autocratic regimes because they called themselves socialist, I cannot and will not. I guess I should clarify further since it wasn't as obvious as I'd thought - I'm a democratic socialist.

>forming your political opinions from theories rather than history
You're kidding right?

This shit has never worked.

>This shit has never worked.

As counter-evidence I present to you the entire history of the worker's rights movement in the U.S. and Europe.

Are you pro immigration ?

I have never been terribly committed or stringent in defining which political camp I fit into, but when I was younger 15 - 19, I had left leanings. Nothing too extreme, just believed in the idealic nature of the left. But that was just it, ideals. Leftist politics in most cases suffers from the symptom of having to interject its own discourses with "but if everyone did it this way". Not everyone is going to do it that way unless forced to. Anarchism is ignorant of human nature and behavior, communism is the same but also is more open to corruption. After reading "Republic" by Plato and looking into more rightist politics, I realized that rightest politics have something over leftist ideals. Pure right ideology when it doesn't need to check its self against neo-liberal globalist economics is more realistic. It has a much more naturalistic hue compared to the ideal musings of marxists and egalitarians. It is also shameless in its self description, for example, anti-far are a leftist organisation that obstruct and disrupt rallies, protests or events which they deem "fascist". Silencing dissident voices is a pillar of fascism and unapologetically so. So anti-far are anti fascist by being fascist? No wonder hipsters seem to gravitate to the left, its wildly ironic.

>Cred Forums wasn't right wing "years" ago.

I didn't say it was. I said I was. That being said; I disagree.

>A few socialist implementations are evidence that a pure socialist society will function
I present counter-counter-evidence by saying that the more socialist implentations, the shittier and shittier the US and Europe have gotten. Id say correlation does not equal causation, but i believe that at least some of the implementations do nothing but harm society

And a PURE socialist/communist society has never, and will never work unless we can fully automate almost every industry

Yes, I am. But first and foremost I am against the insane, bloodthirty, neoliberal policies that have ravaged the global south thus creating the immigration crisis that we now face. Normal, working class people bear the costs/burden of the refugee crisis. The neoliberal elites that created the crisis bear none of the burden.

God help me you've read all this compounded ignorance and look where it's got you. People are fucked up in every bracket and that's the very reason socialism has failed every single time without a god damned exception. Pull your head out of your ass and stop trying to inveigle the reality of things to yourself.

none of those are fascist

libertarianism is just another Leftist ideology. Actual fascism is far more leftist than American "right wing" politics, it's economically leftist/socialist, while socially conservative

Go to the shit parts of town. When peoples' aspirations don't go beyond cow-shaped women and new TVs they are quite content living in squalor and (relative) poverty.

Go live in actual socialism, it will change your mind well enough. And dont you fucking dare to say something about "wrong socialism".

>After reading Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Chomsky, etc., I changed my mind completely

lmao do people like that even exist?

You know most people become right-wing through life experience and reality not neo-nazi propaganda

Communism in a nutshell:

There will be no cars for you, only the government has them.
Because this is good for the community of course.
Or so you are told.

And fucking niggers is good for the community too.
So you are told.

If your personal views are against what is told to you as being good for the community you are thrown out of community and punished.
Because this is good for the community.

And this kills the evolution of communist civilization at the end.
There will be nothing let to thrive that threatens the small government and their heir,

Because this is good for the community - their community. Because they know what is good for the community.

Congratulations, you are a slave and the bait is as it was always been - glass beads.

(There will always be someone calling the shots - hence, government)

>I present counter-counter-evidence by saying that the more socialist implentations, the shittier and shittier the US and Europe have gotten.

Have child labor laws harmed society?

>socialism has failed every single time without a god damned exception

America's steadfast policy of regime change, through direct violence or clandestine, has guaranteed as much.

>And dont you fucking dare to say something about "wrong socialism".

Have you ever talked to a Dane?

And do not forget that there is no socialism which is not national-socialism. Some people just cant understand that what we call simply socialism is in fact national-socialism for one particular gods chosen nation.

The next sentance says SOME socialist policies. Not all. SOME.

You didn't answer my question.

>characterized yourself as a fascist

you were never one of us.

Cred Forums is anti fascist, it's just that we believe the fascists are the progressives.

Tranny fucker

>Cred Forums is anti fascist

lol

OP you're a massive faggot, one of the biggest I've ever seen on here. Read Anatomy of the State so you can stop being a faggot.

Fucking oath this.

Always reply in earnest to Aussie posters.jpg

>I used to be right-wing.
Stopped reading there.

You don't simply "go back to being left-wing" without admitting that you live a lie.

How do you expect to win over the animal nature of the human beast without providing any incentive to better itself?

>I'm a democratic socialist.

At this point you are either lying, or clinically stupid.

Because you have no argument. Regardless of whether or not child labor laws have harmed society, the fact remains that pure socialism has not worked once since it's inception.

No, I wouldn't say child labor harms have had a harmful impact on society, but welfare has, heavy regulations on business have, etc. I'd even say our education and infrastructure are 30 years behind because of the fact that we rely on the government for the upkeep. Nearly every industry that incorporates competition between business is lightyears ahead of government-run industries.

You can never be fascist if you are strongly in favor of free speech.

wow after reading your insightful post i realize how wrong ive been all those years
thats it, i am now a #marxmissile

So you went from being one kind of authoritarian human garbage to another. Congrats.

Yes it was you asshat. Cred Forums was created for stormfront containment, and still does a decent job.

Coherent explanation of a chaotic world isn't entirely possible, the modern, or old left is purely dictated by idealistic views of society. The main error of leftist idealogies is that it either focuses too much on economics, ignoring the effects of culture and environment, or it's far too entrenched in idealistic views of how society should work.

Conservatives, not the people entrenched in fundmentalism and religious zealotry have a decent understanding of how things work, it might sound like jargon but being a worker, under a mixed economy is perfect, your pay is improved over socialist countries, but you've also got unions and worker protection. The reality is that, unless we abandon state/government or liberalism as a whole (Which is my preference, but unlikely to happen) a mixed economy works the best.

There's also the fact that because of the nature of this world, leftist views will never bear fruit as the individual nature of humans make it so any demands of collectivist or globalist intent are usually shut down. Especially when capitalism is the main economic style on this planet.

Democratic socialism is literally the opposite of authoritarianism.

>socialism
>not authoritarian

hey retard idk if you know this but years ago this shithole used to be liberal due to bush's reign of autism, try again next time stupid fucking canadian using a US VPN

Democratic socialism, also known in the future as the dark age of gibsmedats.

This.

> Leftist ideology presents a much more nuanced and coherent explanation of economics and politics

Bullshit. Have you ever heard the kind of shit that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren or other pandering populists have said about economics/finance? They are financially illiterate. Not only are they not in any way nuanced, but they are ignorant on the topic. It's like when you hear about evangelicals saying that radiometric dating isn't accurate and that the earth is only 6000 years old, but in a financial context.

...

That's right.

People really fail to understand the concept of anonymous

They are literally anonymous. You get the name from the rag tag group of retards you typically find in anonymous image boards and forums. You band together and do something stupid, sometimes for humour, sometimes for something a bit more serious

Anonymous isn't a group, you can't be a member, of course you can start calling yourself anonymous and make videos wearing a guy Fawkes mask, but that doesn't do anything. It's the equivalent of me and my friends going around beating up Protestants and calling ourselves the Australian branch of the IRA

You still post on Cred Forums.

Wrong thread, cunt, fuck.

>There is not reason why anyone on this Earth should live in poverty or squalor.

Prove this statement.

> there is no reason for any human to be stupid on this planet

I don't have to. You simply have to look at the causes of global poverty, which are understood quite well.

>which are understood quite well.
poverty is caused by exponential growth of a population in an environment. Some percent of the population has to starve, or the population will grow infinitely. The earth can't sustain infinite numbers of humans.

Population is the cause of poverty.

>poverty is caused by exponential growth of a population in an environment

lol

those are some hot assumptions pal.

>Leftist ideology presents a much more nuanced and coherent explanation of economics and politics.

How? It certainly presents a different explanation, but explain how it is 'more nuanced'

>I believe that more democracy is the path to a brighter future for the human race.

Why????

>le ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

kys libshit

I'm not a liberal.

I didn't call you a liberal, libshit

How do you live with yourself knowing that all the worst authoritarian maniacs of the twentieth century were socialists?

Millions apon millions have died due to your ideas.

That poster is correct though. I doubt you have taken any biology courses. If you have, let me refresh your memory:

Living things will increase exponentially until they reach the carrying capacity of the environment they are in unless they are kept in check via predation or climate cycles. The carrying capacity of any environment is the amount of resources that environment is capable of producing in a sustainable way. Look at global population, it has skyrocketed - with Africa leading the way. Why do you think the population of Africa exploded in the 1950's? Why do you think global population has exploded? I'll give you a hint - fertilizers. Large scale fertilizer production radically increased carrying capacity by dramatically increasing crop yields and that is why Africa's population exploded int he past 50 years instead of 10,000 years ago. The poverty in Africa (the whole world, but Africa is the most stark example) is a direct result of over-population. If the population of Africa were cut in half tomorrow the remaining Africans would have a profound amount of surplus goods to sell on the world market, and poverty would disappear. Part of the reason this doesn't afflict the west is because we have a high enough IQ to plan out our reproduction.

>How do you live with yourself knowing that all the worst authoritarian maniacs of the twentieth century were socialists?

>Cred Forums is anti fascist
Have abbos finally learned how to use a computer?

le i was there meme

let me guess youre also an oldfag that remembers the good old 90s days of Cred Forums

This triggers the leftist

...

How do you go from right to left???
Communism never fucking works. It's right wing or go hang bitch

>I doubt you have taken any biology courses.

Oh definitely not. And I definitely haven't heard this before. This is totally new to me. Thanks user. I believe don't believe that war, interventionism, capitalist predation, food prices, and environmental devastation have any effect on poverty now. Thanks for the new information.

I believe that*

>Leftist larp that they're russian farmers in the 1900's

...

>war
>interventionism
>capitalist predation
>food prices
>environmental devastation

Ok user, lets go through each of those points you brought up:

>war
Does war cause poverty? Only to the losers. The winners of wars tend to do quite well. To think that war causes poverty is a very un-nuanced way of looking at the event. Hardly the nuance and coherence I would expect from leftist ideology. War causes both poverty and abundance. In fact, it could be argued that the abundance given to the victor in addition to the innovation created by all sides results in a net gain for the human race. Then again, I'm sure with your nuance you had already considered that. A better question for you is this: What do you think a war actually is?

>interventionism
Please be more specific. When you use the term in such a vague way I can only assume you mean an act of intervention. One I remember is when the west intervened in Haiti to give food, water and medical supplies after to terrible earthquake. Or did the west cause the earthquake?

>capitalist perdation
I think you just made that up. Please explain what that means. What is a capitalist to you? How do they engage in predation?

>food prices
Do high food prices cause poverty? Quite possible. Luckily the west gives food FOR FREE to Africa. Quite a luxury.

>environmental devastation
This is true, environment devastation can indeed cause poverty. It is very lucky that capitalists in the west have long since enacted strict environmental protection laws. Unfortunately, in the poverty stricken countries they still clear cut forest, creating desert. This can be seen quite drastically in Haiti and Sudan.

But of course, you have considered these points in your nuanced and coherent world view, so please rebut them for me.

>you're entitled to sustenance for a lifetime, because your parents fucked and brought you into this world
>this is "nuanced and coherent"

Main effect comes from overpopulation and stupidity.

Human civilization values smart humans. Nothing is wrong with this.

Do you believe race is a social construct?

Yes. It is.

How so? Do you not believe in subspecies?

Elaborate please how you came to this conclusion.
Might be there is a logical flaw in your thought process and Nature eats flawed.

> pic related

>believe all humans are equal regardless of the evidence

>I think you just made that up. Please explain what that means. What is a capitalist to you? How do they engage in predation?

ciaonet.org/attachments/16028/uploads

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_breeding

What evidence?

...

Some subspecies aren't worth mixing with though

All breeding is selective.

Do you want to know how democratic socialism turns out in the end? Look no further than Sweden.

Hmm you realize humans are like any other animal? You do believe in natural selection right?

you do realize*

>bell curve

This is a softball. Don't waste my time with this shit.

You're deluded

The article you linked does not mention 'capitalist', 'predation', 'predator' or 'predatory'. The terms 'capitalist' and 'capitalism' both show up once, respectively, here:

>"During the Cold War, the craze for
ideological spread led both the communists and the capitalist powers into a competition
to align with rebel groups in the continent."

Yes the pitting of pawns against one another by the capitalists and communists is literally the reason it is called the 'cold war'. This is very well known and has nothing to do with the point.

>With capitalism pitted against communism in a battle for supremacy, the geographical size of the combat expanded as more and more states, particularly from the Third World, were conscripted by either side in exchange for some
forms of economic assistance

Ok so the communists and capitalists pitted 3rd worlders against each other. This is well known. It has nothing to do with the term 'capitalist predation'. The term isn't mentioned.

Also, I took the liberty of reading the abstract of the piece and skimming through relevant portions, the article seems to be about Africa not cooperating with the ICC because it blames the USA for causing several atrocities. This has nothing to do with the point of mine your quoted.

You also have not addressed the other points I made.

As long as you believe in that without believing in 3rd worldist multiculturalism I don't really care.

>a much more nuanced and coherent explanation
kek
you should read Guy Debord and George Orwell, though

I have.

Charles Murray is a laughing stock.

So is Karl Marx, but retards like you like to spew his bullshit.

>The article you linked does not mention 'capitalist', 'predation', 'predator' or 'predatory'.

I don't follow. The "article" has examples of Western capitalist entities funding bloodthirsty warlords in exchange for cheap resources. An example of what I call capitalist predation. Just an example of the devastating consequences of unchecked, indifferent, capitalist exploitation.

Are you comparing Charles fucking Murray to Karl Marx? lol

Yeah lol, If anything Charles Murray is more smarter than Karl Marx.

What the article is talking about is the after-effects of the cold war. Warlords arose because the USA and USSR used the continent as a proxy battleground to try and bleed each others resources. Then the USSR collapses and suddenly the USA is the only super power left, so all the african nations which were founded by the USSR get turbo fucked because they picked the wrong pony, then bitch that it wasn't their fault because the USA and USSR were so much more wealthy and they got tricked so the ICC shouldn't come and arrest their leaders.

That is what the article is talking about and you are a fool if you can not see that.

There's no such thing as right to left

Only left to right

Additionally, lets unpack some of these terms you use:

>unchecked
The capitalism was unchecked you say? That is odd, I don't find anywhere in the article that mentions capitalists being allowed to buy and sell goods without regulation.

>indifferent
While I agree that capitalists are typically indifferent, that is one of the benefits of the system. By indifference of course, I mean 'objective' the only care the buy and seller should have are of the products. This creates a kind of meritocracy. Or do you favor nepotism or cronyism instead?

>capitalist exploitation
remind me how the capitalists exploited africa? Was it the roads, the schools, the food, the building projects, the ports, the cities? Explain how this was exploitative. I hear that a lot, that capitalism is exploitative. Explain to me how it is. No one has ever given me a good explanation.

then how does society keep moving to the left?

Could it Marxism's fault? Heavens no.

Watch this video youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM and tell me, is socialism an absolute abomination of a system?

Could it be Marxism's fault?*

Good. Common ground. I put it to you that we're not ready for full global integration yet and as such nationalism offers the only viable defense against neo-liberalism. Have you considered National Bolshevism/NatSoc? If not y not?

>Marx
>Engles
>Luxemburg
>Chomsky
oy vey

Have you not noticed that every single one of these people is Jewish?

The contrarion nonsense and hypocrisy on here made me left wing. First I thought it was just this shithole, and that right wingers usually are people of integrity and principles, and they value facts, concrete evidence before jumping to conclusions is the golden standard. But this recent Trump meme has exposed the utter autism that is what we call the right wing.

It is a scientific fact that blacks have smaller brains and fewer connections to the frontal lobe, leading to congenitally lower IQ levels. Just look at a black man, you will see he has a physically smaller head.

And this makes sense, the races diverged over 200,000 years ago into radically different environments. People who evolved in the tropical zone with plentiful resources had no need for larger brains, people who evolved in the cold north where they dealt with severe winters and food shortages did.

The only way someone can believe egalitarian ideals is if they shelter themselves from the facts.

>Just look at a black man, you will see he has a physically smaller head.

And here comes the skull shape quackery. Like clockwork. This is the kind of embarrassing shit that pushes people to the left.

Until 51% vote to kill and eat the 49%. Democracy needs safe-guards. Safe-guards that inherently limit the powers of direct democracy.

Another question, what will your government look like? It's all well and good saying 'I'm socialist now', but if you can't succinctly describe how it will look and what we need to do to get there, good luck converting anyone.

you still here?

Explain how socialism would work and how it is more in my interest than nationalism.

>he isn't a monarchist

> Changing over a book and not over observation of pure reality.
You were never right wing

Come to western Europe. See how that one turned out.

Cognizance of class struggle is a start. After you recognize your position in the working class, and take pride in being a worker, workplace democratization starts to make a lot of sense - and wealthy elites accessing political power becomes a lot more outrageous. Democratic socialism is about the working class taking political power away from wealthy elites, and giving it back to the working class.

These ideas aren't fantastical by any measure.

So are you talking about the nationalisation of industry here, rather than full on no private property communism?

>The physical dimensions of one's cranium has no bearing on the thing it encases...

>socialism
>And literaly any other statism
Fails, for one simple reason - state has its own iterest. And when state grows - people are suffering more taxes\regulations etc.
>I hate poverty, than let's give rich faggots even more authority, lest take every property from people. Viva la socialism

>After reading Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Chomsky, etc., I changed my mind completely

Good goy, falling for (((communist))) propaganda.

Just remember, """true""" communism hasn't been tried yet. So go out and steal some political signs and physically assault people with differing opinions.

>kill yourself, OP

It goes more like this

>Overthrow the bourgeoisie
>Get their shit
>Become them, but worse because these usurpers truly are all about greed - which is why they stole it in the first place

>Another question, what will your government look like?

Many democratic socialist policies can work under the current political framework. The first challenge, however, is kicking the oligarchy to the curb. Campaign finance reform is a modest, reasonable proposal. A good first step imo.

>1 post by this id

Thats not an explanation, those are talking points you and other leftists regurgitate in these threads. You may recognize the class struggle but that doesn't mean anything is being done about it.

What makes you working class man? What claim to that pride do yo have? How do you give political power back to the working class, assuming if he lost it in the first place?

You claimed earlier in this thread about the violence of capitalism, but how would you address the the record of violent leftists have when making their utopian society?

You never were right wing. You are just a lying shill.

>i've been brainwashing myself with leftist material for years. change my mind. protip: you can't
Cred Forums BTFO.

Sure. That should be decided democratically, of course. Personally, I believe that communism is an inevitability. It is something that will (and should) come about organically, and cannot be forced with autocratic state power.

>implying the working class wants political power
all they want is nice cars and bigger houses

the whole discussion between the left & the right comes down to one essential question: "Are human beings benevolent or malevolent by nature?"
everything that we know points towards the answer that the masses are evil, selfish, greedy... a good man is an exception. animals need a master; a strong hierarchy is a necessity for mankind

Personally, i belive that anarchism is an inevitability. It is something that will (and should) come about organically, and cannot be forced with autocratic state power.

Wow. That's quite the amount of kool aid you have drank there.

What do you think is the specific mechanism by which this will "just happen"?

You are obviously easily swayed by which ever mantra you delve into. Weak minded individual. A useful idiot. Congratulations.

Why should individuals not be allowed to own a means of production?

wtf I like """"""""""freedom"""""""""" now

>Chomsky
>Marx
>Luxemburg

All political losers. None of them succeeded in their lives all of them were statist parasites.

I love how on the one hand you praise democracy yet on the other, you praise individuals who advocate for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Collectivism is the ideology of the weak and I don't mean physically weak (although they do tend to go hand in hand) I mean mentally inferior.

Chomsky got SCHOOLED by Hitchens btw and Hitchens always thought of Chomsky as his intellectual INFERIOR. As does Harris and Dawkins. Chomsky is literally a hypocritical rabble rouser who (because he's studied language) uses fanciful words to sound intelligent as he makes idiotic, delusional points about his version of utopia.

>What makes you working class man?

I work to survive, out of necessity. I cannot survive on my accumulated wealth. A vast majority of people are working class, by this definition.

>What claim to that pride do yo have?
I toil and I create. I don't exploit my fellow man for profit. I am part of something greater. I stand in solidarity with my fellow workers. We don't need the bosses. We will seize the means of production, as we have done before.

>As does Harris and Dawkins.

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

You can't be intelligent, understand history and still believe that man is benevolent.

Look at Renaissance Italy as a microcosm for how human nature would play out without any societal rules.

But you still take them? Got it.

>We will seize the means of production
But why should individuals not be allowed to own a means of production?

Revolution.

Doesn't it prove my point?

Chomsky is a political idiot. Have any of his ideas earned praise outside of your political bubble? Have any of his ideals been achieved? Has he done ANYTHING aside from orate from an Ivory tower?

Hitchens, to his credit, actually went around the world and saw inequality, war, famine, disease ect all first hand. He understood, for instance, the gravity of war initially when he visited Cyprus in the early 80s, unlike Chomsky whose never traveled further than his college or speaking tour's hotel room.

>I work to survive
>I toil and I create

Those are both very vague statements. Lets assume the working class does get fed up with the current system and start to organize. How would you be able to relate to electricians, carpenters, farmers? What specific thing do you do that allows you to identify with them? If you really do recognize with them you'd know that the thing the majority of working class appreciate the most is hard work and a no bullshit attitude.

Funny how you provide vague answers and ignore the question about the history of the revolution.

Heh. Yes very organic.

Not at all likely to be some self interested group who gasses up the masses with stories of free shit, who then take the reins of power and become the new boss, same as the old boss...

>Have any of his ideas earned praise outside of your political bubble? Have any of his ideals been achieved?

Have you actually ever read anything he's written?

>Those are both very vague statements.

Vague answers to a vague question.

>I believe any ideology I'm currently reading as truth!
Why do we even WANT you is the actual question? You sound mentally and morally weak.

Bin Laden was rich and masterminded an evil act

>free shit

I don't follow.

>Crime is linked to poverty

Oh lord did you take epicac with your red pill you fucking mongoloid?

here's a Dane vouching for the wonders of socialism, you dense fucking cunt

>Chomsky

Fair linguist, middling cognitive scientist, piss poor social theorist.

Sounds to me you were always a socialist. The whole "I used to be right-wing" is just used to draw people to your thread.

Fuck off

Saged

I think you are a shill posing as a former right-wing to promote your agenda. At least I'll give you a hat tip for originality in your trolling.

At best, you were right-wing by default, THEN started reading left-wing authors because your sense of reality was too weak to bear the lack of validation from your peers that go along right-wing views, THEN your validation-starved mind naturally compared the savant contorsions of Marx with internet shitposting and made it look clever by comparison, THEN you found your newly acquired feeling of right-winger suddenly leaning left very edgy and decided it was a positioning you were comfortable with, especially since you can now virtue-signal for cheap on top of it, finally being on the good side of the Narrative.

But I'd rather go for the marxist troll option.

>Change my mind

It doesn't need changed, no one ever goes from right to left. No one (who's an adult) goes from using logic, common sense and reason to using emotion, double speak and hypocrisy. Either you're a shill and shekels will always speak louder to you than the voice of sense or you're underageb& and you'll come to the correct conclusion when you're older.

>I believe any ideology I'm currently reading as truth!

I read about more political ideologies than just Marxism and socialism in that time.

complete version of your liberal paradise based off magic and dreams

>Fair linguist

lol

Free shit is socialism's number one selling point - particularly the democratic brand.

It appeals to people's greed, the idea that they can vote themselves a share of another's wealth - and the politicians are more than happy to oblige because bribing the electorate is one of the most effective ways of maintaining political office.

Yes and they're retarded. He's literally the original Anti-American nu male cuck.

Also, did you know he's an Armenian Genocide denier?

youtube.com/watch?v=V0QBFNUIIBk

;)

He's literally the soft spoken version of Cenk.

Your meme changed my mind. I'm not a socialist now. Thank you, user.

And yet failed to completely mention that. So more than likely you're just a liar constantly changing your story. I'm out.

Let's see how many times you ignore this question: why shouldn't people be allowed to own a means of production? Failure to answer this proves that your entire ideology has no leg to stand on.

Look at his reaction to 9/11

HE FUCKING IMMEDIATELY GETS THE PITY PARTY READY AND BLAMES AMERICA

FUCK NOAM.

humanities.psydeshow.org/political/chomsky-1.htm

>Free shit is socialism's number one selling point - particularly the democratic brand.

Wrong. Worker's rights have always been our number one selling point. We've made tremendous strides on that front, and we're not done yet.

No, those are very specific questions. I want to know what you do that makes you working class. What is you labor, what is your job?

Judging by the way you are dodging the questions you are some useful idiot student that will be the first to die.

You made an assumption and you were wrong. I didn't change "my story".

It's like you don't know that my country has done the democratic socialism meme before.

We know what it's like.

It leads to high taxes, government overspending, and on its worst days, strikes and the country grinding to a screeching halt.

> Kissinger, Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, Charles Murray

abandon ship

OP is either trolling or retarded

Yea I post about Noam Chomsky denying the Armenian Genocide, along with the fact that he's one of the original Post-Modernist Nu-Male cucked identity politics race baiters and he goes silent.

Literally denies the genocide because it wasn't done by whites.

(((Chomsky)))

Stupid shill thread. It's impossible to go left after going right

I just don't understand you. Did you major in philosophy in college? Political Science? Some meme degree that gives you zero awareness or knowledge of the financial markets? Socialism only works when 100% of the populace is behind it, works hard, and does not take more than they need. How can socialism work when we have a humongous underclass of people who hate/refuse to work, apply for all welfare benefits whenever and wherever possible, and see the act of rejecting work as "cool" in their culture?

What happens if everyone decides they don't want to work because they're fed up with caring for the ungrateful underclass? Who will create the magical surpluses to ensure everyone is always taken care of? Who will pay for all your """""free""""" utopian social programs?

It's all so mind-boggingly obvious to me, how retarded socialism is in actual implementation, that I can't help but think you are either truly ignorant of reality or actually stupid.

>Yes and they're retarded.

Oh? What have you read? I'd be happy to discuss specifics.

The only solution to society's problems is to erase the idea of communism completely. Then we can all realize how good of a world we built without Marx.

>Cred Forums
>Kissinger

He does realize that his lead cow, Hillary Clinton, admires Kissinger and tried to emulate him during her time as secretary of state, right?

Also, he supports her.

Doesn't react when outed. Troll confirmed.

Too bad, I was so sure we finally found the One specimen of right-winger gone left whose very existence turned all these political theories we held as grounded upside down.

Do you expect me to defend everything Chomsky has said/done? I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Good point, I'm in favor of switching the thread to that topic.

Or we could make it a roll thread but it's approaching limit already.

No need to defend Chomsky. I just want to see you defend a basic premise of socialism: that the means of production should be "owned" by the collective. Why shouldn't private individuals be allowed to own a means of production?

>Failure to answer this proves that your entire ideology has no leg to stand on.

They should be allowed.

does consent exist?

>philosophy student not no finance markets.

That's rich! Not o y do philosophy students learn about economy etc. They also learn about the human and environmental impact of these imaginary numbers that banks pass to each other and governments. Ethics. That business majors can earn a degree without taking a single course in ethics is the real travesty.

So while you pretend to troll about things which you do not know with your substandard IQ, I would suggest that you go to bed, read a book, just stay off of all 4 chans.

Yes.

It's mind-boggling to me that you don't realize that you already live in a more or less socialist country.

>He does realize that his lead cow, Hillary Clinton, admires Kissinger and tried to emulate him during her time as secretary of state, right?

Hillary Clinton is a war criminal.

I've posted a video and a link to his writings. Why did you want to discuss his book on American hegemony and how everything is white people/America's fault?

Our how in Manufacturing consent he levies all American media interests down to this propagandist, pro-war, anti- left evil cabal of interwoven political/military interests rather than figuring out (literally any working class yokel can understand) that most of their interest are money driven? I mean, he starts off by making that point then sputters off into obscurity. Literally all corporate news wants to do is create content that will influence people to consume. The entire system is centered around consumption (it's our system's greatest failure) and yet even though he does detail it, he then goes on to attribute it to some anti-left wing group of elites who are just trying to stop the left at all costs. Delusional, egotistical and flat out retarded way to end what starts off as a largely correct theory.

I've worked in mainstream media so I think I'd understand a little bit more about the inner workings than an ivory tower linguistics prof.

I haven't read anything of his in some time (4 years) since I, even prior to becoming more right wing, found his intellectual snobbery to be insufferable and realized he was the original social justice warrior.

>I want to know what you do that makes you working class.

I answered your question already.

>claims to be a socialist
>rejects the basic socialist notion that the means of production should be owned by the community
So what makes you a "socialist"?

Smith said it right.

>Philosophy students
>Economy

Don't kid yourself. Reading "The Mind, Money, and the Market" isn't going to teach you anything substantial about the economy. You are the one with the substandard IQ if the only way you could earn a university diploma is by writing 100% subjective essays that espouse your grading professors' beliefs so you get high marks. But you already know that because 90% of you work at Starbucks now.

In this country, you are as socialist as you are poor. People who make money aren't forced to pay 70% of it to the underclass. Only poor people are slaves to the benefits system here.

No. You didn't.

All yo stated in is that you toil. Not specificity as to what that is.

I want to know what specific trade you are in.

If you aren't baiting, you are probably a student of some sort and can be classified as a useful idiot. Hiding behind the veil of academia to claim intelligence.

You will be the first do die.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia

then if someone consents to work for a capitalist?

No but seeing as you laughed at my commentary on Harris not wanting to debate him (because he's an ideologue) I thought he was an apt character to assassinate.

Honestly, I think Edmund Burke, Hobbes were right and Rousseau was wrong. Human nature is fundamentally war like, violent and imperialistic (that's why we all like getting clay in EU4 for instance).

Personally I believe the best ideology leans right, believes in the free market and the role of government being to ensure there's no overarching monopolies, violence against persons or personal property and basic resource availability, perhaps even health care (if you can root out the bureaucracy, which if you're canadian you'd know is where LITERALLY 50+% of our health care spending goes to). Governments will always, like people, strive for more power and more control over resources. The only "lefty" thing I believe in (which isn't really left wing) is environmentalism, because I've taken enough environmental science courses to understand how we're destroying the planet over a bubble economy.

HOWEVER, I do think only the Right provides the intellectual freedom to seek an environmental solution that's dependent on human ingenuity rather than cruelty.

>People do evil things when they're impoverished or deranged
So rich people never commit evil acts? Not following your logic here

Op is both trolling and retarded.

Commies are too regarded to make the distinction between actual fascists and libertarians so they don't.

The main problem with Lefties is their ignorance to 99% of Human history.

>You will be the first do die.
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge_rule_of_Cambodia

lmao, this was your money shot? Do you want to know if I wear glasses too?

Of course they do. I wasn't as accurate as I should have been.

1. Not an argument. No defense for lack of ethics. The economy is more than a bunch of numbers. Starbucks is actually a decent corp to work for, even though I don't work for them.

2. It's a 2 tiered system, yes, but it's socialism for rich (because they don't pay taxes fairly) who's "social services" (healthcare,education, etc.) Get funding slashed because the people who do pay taxes have their money used to subsidize big oil, big banks and foreign wars.

How is subsidizing businesses with tax payer money capitalism?

Do you reject the notion that the means of production should be "owned" by the community? If so, what fundamentally distinguishes your "socialism" from other ideologies? If not, then why shouldn't private individuals be allowed to own a means of production?

What about race IQ differences?

Did you actually read their email correspondence? Simple Sam makes a fucking fool out of himself.

samharris.org/blog/item/the-limits-of-discourse

I'm a democratic socialist. That should answer your question.

A Fucking leaf!

Lefties actually want people to learn history all-right fags would prefer to make it up as conveniently as in their favor.

...

I didn't think so. Sam quotes Chomsky and himself, Chomsky quotes far left marxist organisations to make his points.

Don't understand how Harris makes a fool out of himself by being the one who wants a public debate btw....

O yea?
I've studied history and it seems like every society in human history disproves the founding notions of leftist ideology. A few examples;

Renaissance Italy
Ottoman Turkey
Ancient Greek city States
Ancient Persia
The Mongols
The Tartars
The Assyrians
The Egyptians
The Moors

Ect, ect ect

>leftist ideology bad

That's an oppinion, not a fact. We could have a discussion about it,but that's require a truly dedicated thread.

History is written by survivors.

Member berry Efren Athens adopted a policy of invading Syracuse in order to make it a colony? Seems like a right-winger stance to take. How many men survived?

One, and it took him years to return to Athens.

Who told you we don't take ethics courses? I had a couple legal studies classes I had to pass and they covered all areas of law and ethics in business. Not to mention all the ethics crap we had to learn in Management and Marketing classes. Do you think the entire education program is just learning Excel functions or something?

Subsidizing huge businesses and banks with tax payer money isn't socialism either. It's pure corruption at its finest. This is a failing of our political system because they are greedy cucks who let money control their political decisions. Getting money out of politics is how you fix this, not with any sort of economic system.

Conservatives are always losing. They have good reason to be mad. They possess the most wealth and hold the most value in society due to this cultural nepotism. They realize they don't deserve what they have, and their scared that it's going to be taken away at any minute.
By aligning yourself with the left, you get the means to over come the few. The right doesn't like public assistance programs because they don't want the mass bettering themselves and demanding a better life. No, they the ordained few must possess everything while the rest of us squander in filth. Not everyone can live the same they say. Not everyone can have affordable health. Not everyone can have clean water, breathable air, or a livable environment. Not everyone who wants to continue education should be able to. Etc...
See, that's ultimately what the right preaches. A life of prosperity for a few, built on the suffering of the masses.

>still dodging this fucking hard

You're better than that.

Is he?

>good is deriveded from the suffering of others

>After reading Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Chomsky, etc., I changed my mind completely. I now consider myself to be a full-fledged socialist. Leftist ideology presents a much more nuanced and coherent explanation of economics and politics.

>wealth is finite
>society is a zero-sum game
>because I have money, means that you don't
>people cannot create wealth/prosperity through their own endeavors without taking it from someone else

retard

My brother works at Us banks in Chicago. Great dude, makes great money, just isn't a very forward thinker. What does taking those ethics courses give you, what did you learn about the human condition if you support blatant war-mongering, institutional racism and, from what seems to be, a complete acquiescence to the status quo?

It is corruption. It is socialism for the wealthy and broken capitalism for the rest (see Obama care). It is a plutocratic oligarchy.

Friend, we may agree more than we disagree. What did you have for dinner last night? I had pulled pork, sweet corn succotash, and potato hash, followed by pumpkin pie.

How about this, then?

Resources are finite, therefore so is wealth.

You can find a way to use them more efficiently, or come up with a novel use for them, but there is still an upper limit.

>I'm a democratic socialist. That should answer your question.
It doesn't. Democratic socialists still hold that the community should control the means of production by a democratic process, i.e. private individuals can't own a means of production because that implies freedom to make undemocratic decisions about how it operates. I'd call you a troll, but I know that most legit supporters of socialism and Chomsky fans are as incompetent as you are, so I'll ask you again: why shouldn't private individuals be allowed to own (and therefore undemocratically operate) their own means of production?

So, let me ask.

You are a gay liberal Bible-thumping transexual SJW pro-gay-anti-theist or typical conservative anti-faggot communist like Stalin ?

>I went from being edgy and interesting to having the default thought process of everyone under the age of 40

Ok bye

Questioning ones own beliefs is the only way to find truth.

If you find truth and question it, you will only find truth again.

OP is either finding the error in his ways, or is a weak minded follower, but him questioning is not indicative of any weakness.

>him questioning is not indicative of any weakness.
No, but his being persuaded by meme-tier socialist argumentation is. This is also demonstrated by his reluctance to even try and provide a justification for the basics of his ideology.

You poised your mind dumbass.

You need to be able to read material without being poisoned by it. Go back and read all those Jewish Bolshevik lies and tell apart lies.

Fun Fact before I leave too Jim Jam, 52% of the Bolsheviks were kikes while only 1.8% of the USSR were Kikes.

Do you actually trust the media?
Do you not think their owners wouldn't use them to push their agenda?

You're conflating his views with your straw man. I cangaruntee you haven't read his work because if you did you'd be able to make a proper critique.

Do you actually believe that news and media are unbiased. This election cycle has shown otherwise. CNN not reporting on the DNC leak due t exchange of funds is a good example.

You're right it is about money, and if they start to report against the narrative they're given they'll lose their funding from politicians and "non partisan" donors.

They're not trying to stop all leftists in a conspiracy theory type setting. What they are doing is trying to control the narrative and stop you from realizing anything fishy is going on behind the scenes. (As we have learned it has by not trusting biased sources)

Fair assertion and I'm glad you brought that up. The burden of proof was on him and he offered nothing.

I just think it's unhealthy for any of us to attack "dissent" immediately without a justification. You offered that justification and that's what I was getting at.

...

>t. Mindless idealism
Left wing ideas are contrary to human nature and as such cannot and will not ever work.
>muh sharing
People are greedy
>muh no government
People are power hungry and will take an empty position of power in a heartbeat
>muh world peace
HAHAHAHAHAHA HE THINKS PEOPLE WILL GET ALONG!!!
>muh working together
People are not equal, their work isn't the same and the greater will always come out on top

Please stop with this idiocy. There's no way to logically explain how this could work in the context of human differences and human psychology.

IT
DOESN'T
WORK

As stated, socialism is built on the misunderstanding that human nature can be bent by rules and ideology.
Socialism tries to create a system in which human nature is changed (like communism) instead of adapting government and society to human nature.
It is doomed to fail because of that.
Man is a competitive animal, as well as a tribal animal.
Any socialist/communist government will eventually collapse under the weight of rules and regulations and overbearing bureaucracy.
Why? Because the rules set in place do not take into account basic human psychology.
Would love to hear your rebuttal to this.
Do you actually think man can be reprogrammed to a better version of itself by law and social structure?

Most people will try to improve their conditions. Some do so without regard to how it may degrade the conditions of others. These people have the entire "toolset" that moral people have and much much more.

OP this is Cred Forums so I'd like to start by telling you that you are a fucking retarded cuck. The only way Socialism/Communism/Marxism whatever you want to call it only works is if every member of society works together without exception, and no personal complex. Look at ants, the "perfect" society, they don't have the human condition they are small nearly mindless insects who work together based on their roles and do not crave power, no not abuse their power. Humans CAN NOT do that no matter how badly you want them to or how much your shitty commie books told you they can or made you envision. The reality of socialism is nonexistent, it's an imaginary idealist societal structure that acts in the DETRIMENT to human life. Humans will always have a dogma complex and in a society where everyone is supposed to be equal it would only breed tyranny, as it had exclusively in the past (and present look at Cuck-Jong Un). Somebody will always crave power over others and capitalism provides those roles given one contributes to the society to get there and maintain the position. Capitalism panders to the human condition and exploits it to the betterment of society so fuck you, fuck your commie bullshit, either smarten the fuck up or kill yourself.

What exactly is so wildly ideological about setting up a system based on fairness and equal opportunity? Why go back to the stone age to reinvent the wheel denying real progress that has been made? Why is it that Cred Forums hates the social contract?

Because you're trolling with no real moral compass despite being thralls to Christendom. You're nothing but heathens looking for a fight in your own safe space. What hypocritical nonsense will you claim is based next?

The current system is based on equal opportunity everybody has the same opportunity to work for what they want and to achieve their goals. What you want is it to be handed to you on a gibme platter with some dats on top. Socialism is a concept used to entrap the lazy and incapable into a society where they are exploited for free labor.

Progress in knowledge is not equal to whatever you may call "social progresss".
There's a social contract people will accept easily and one that will be rejected no matter how much energy you place into maintaining it.
Having the fruits of your labor taken from you to give to others isn't a social contract that is easily accepted, never mind its inefficiency.
And ad-hominem attacks saying "heathen" or "Christian" without knowing anything about the person you're arguing with is dishonest and strawmanning.

I am somewhat like you. Socialist. Hate capitalism.
However the symbol Trump provides in the form of anti-establishment, anti-SJW and anti-OffendedByEverything is way more important right now than ideology.
Whats your thoughts on this?

>I have read Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Chomsky etc.
>still doesn't know that fascism is a matter of state organisation and isn't left-wing or right-wing

>Leftist ideology is best observed in Sweden right now, leading the country to near-collapse and turning it into a shithole
>Okay but NEXT TIME it will totally work, it just has never been really tried ;^)

>I used to be x like you but now I'm yz ;^)
I wish the shills they send here were more educated.

Dishonest but effective. You can appreciate the irony, one would hope.

As I've argued without repute before, what we have already in place is socialism(Medicare, TAARP, $1 BIL of tax payer money to banks every year, subsidies for big oil, because g pharma, etc. as nausiem, ad nihilum). The problem is not capitalism hurt s. Classical Socialism. The problem is corruption.

Capitalism vs. Classical Socialism

>You can appreciate the irony, one would hope.
I can't.
>what we have already in place is socialism
It's working?
>The problem is corruption.
Which you want to solve how? With more regulation?

Good to know you're avoiding my post and only responding to things you can spew bullshit about,

>The problem is corruption.
And it always will be, sorry mate, we're humans.

Epitome of the useful idiot. Brainless fascist drone, I bet you like NatSoc only for the promised gibs of the Aryan breeding program, huh virgin?

More regulation
Absolutely. I will rather have a strong system in place with checks and balances as opposed to selling my civil rights to shadowy networks of banks and international corporations.

We can have a reasonable debate, however Cred Forums, a haven for trolls, does not seem the correct place to house such debates.

Would you have responded if I had not been so incendiary?

The free market that you believe in does not exist in the way you describe it, and is a shallow reading, imho of what is in fact happening around the world. Might as well admit to shilling for the establishment.

That sounds like body shaming, racist

Sorry sweetie, I had to take a shower after weeding through so many shitposts.

Nice argument, you really know what you're taking about. I'm a communist now!

>We can have a reasonable debate, however Cred Forums, a haven for trolls, does not seem the correct place to house such debates.
All right fuck off then.

Try hosting a liberal convention at Stormfront. He's in enemy territory, you wafflenigger. You faggots will jump him like dindus.

It's only racist if you make it racist.

>being this defensive
>instead of constructing a cogent argument
glad I stopped wasting time about now

Yeah thanks, I thought you'd like that. Be careful with that communism, comrade. Corruption can happen in any system. No one is better than the other. Put together a system of competing ideas and use what actually works for the polis and maybe we can have a system that is actually free and fair.

>being this defensive

You replied lol

>instead of constructing a cogent argument

You replied lol

>glad I stopped wasting time about now

You replied lol.

"Not an argument" is that your next gambit? We literally have to fight fire with fire, and you faggots shit on us for that.

Why?

Is it because I'm hurting sturmfag feels? Rustling Jimmies?

I'm all for having an honest debate, but we know where we are. All these racist, sexist, xenophobic posts are meant to be taken as works of fiction or satire. Or are we forgetting the rules?

I do not consent to be governed. I dont need you, I dont want you.

Woah, you went through such an amazing journey only to post on here and subsequently be told to fuck off.

>MUH ALT-RIGHT
Fucking ugabugas here probably don't even know what /new/ was, gtfo here, now!

This