What will happen to us when computers and robots take all our jobs?

negative income tax literally only works if you are employed

>Redistribute profits from automation to impoverished workers?
what profits?

if automation makes everything then automation will extract resources, manufacture goods, create other automation and provide services

what makes you think that there will be enough profit to tax and give to the poor

Well, there are already basic minimum incomes in every first world country. Unemployed in the UK get £450 or something and housing assistance.

Someone will own the automatons. We're not taking about the distant future here. The Audi plant in Ingolstadt is 90% automatic.

pretty much this
things will just be cheap
people will always have jobs until automation eclipses humans at being humans, at which point why would anything stop us from being eliminated by the superior humans

>what did the hunter gather's do after farms were invented

Farmers killed off rest of the hunters after gaining superior numbers

>what did people do after combustion engines were invented

Number of horses peaked in 1914 and today they can rarely seen anywhere unless specifically sought out, major concentrations consist of glue factories and romanian and french beef factories

>what did people do after the internet was invented.

Unemployment is going up, up and up.

youtube.com/watch?v=VBFvzRRwJCw

why not just own a single unit of automation itself and send it to work to gain revenue for you
these things will be ridiculously cheap and ridiculously powerful at turning a into b

The first world is also suffering from unemployment?

Say, if you argue that technical unemployment is a thing today, but not in the past, what is your explanation for this?

Yes. We used to have 1% unemployment in Germany, now 5% (+2% hidden, +countless part-time jobbers) are regarded to be exceptionally good.

do you consider spain first world?
if so yes

The problem is you have to have the bulk of the coubtry making money other wise everytbing collaspes. Autonomation with cease to autonomate when no one can afford to buy anything.

everything will be so cheap that daily use items will be more worthless than the pennies that people throw on the floors today
people will care so little about most items that they'll just be free to use

when will i get a free flat? how many years?

move into cuckshed

European youth unemployment is literally in tens of millions.

Before automation one could get a job as long as one had full set of working limbs. Today you need several degrees just to be told that your job was shipped to india to someone working for 1/4 of the pay while you have debts you can't repay and are stuck in a rental apartment subsidized by the taxpayer

Also, the taxes, this country has over 100% marginal tax in some edge cases

In Russia, the "official" unemployment rate of 6% and a same number of the unemployed are not taken into account. People are not in a hurry to get registered because the tiny allowance and no benefits. Work for food or die of hunger.

The cost of flats sadly has nothing to do with the cost of building the flat.

The world wont fall apart, there'll just be fewer jobs and many will have to live on "welfare", this will enable people to innovate and find new stuff to create aswell so that'll help

Also robots need maintenance

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

Finland and Switzerland had discussions about I think

Our cuck politicians killed the inititiave in finland by watering it enough to be completely irrelevant to testing any of the things its planned for

They pay their friends to do some study with their rigged setup then maintain status quo

European youth employment has a lot to do with the €. Germany and the Netherlands have very low unemployment, Italy and Spain receive it instead.

Let's observe a more representative case, like the US instead.

I know, m8. Stay strong.

But you asked about first world countries. Most first world countries offer serious relief for their unemployed, so they actually register as such.

Hyper-productivity leads to hyper-deflation.

10$ will afford you a comfortable living. 90% of the population will not be working as the few jobs left demand high levels of IQ.

The small percentage of the working population will be taxed and the wealth accumulated given to the unemployed masses as basic income (in that society 10$ can give you a comfortable living because of hyper-deflation that is caused by hyper-productivity).

Allahu Akbar!
The U.S. must take Monroe Doctrine now.
The U.S. must withdraw American Forces from all Foreign Countries now.
Stop America's doing its all wars now!

I love American99% and the U.S.

China, Germany and Japan must loosen Germany's, Japan's and China's monetary policies now!
China, Germany and Japan must stimulate Germany's, Japan's and China's domestic demands now!
Japan and Germany must issue a lot of construction bond now!
Japan and Germany must reduce Germany's, Japan's and China's taxes now!
The U.S. must tighten its monetary policy now!

Japan, Germany and China are evil empires.
Islamists' true enemies are Japan, Germany, China, FRB, top1%, Wall Street, American Military Industry and DOD!
Allahu Akbar!

either extreme poverty for 99.9% of the world
or wealth for 100% of the world and no jobs anymore

first one should be easy to see how that would happen
second one is a little more interesting to think about

basically if robots become widespread and efficient enough they'll make everything and do everything for us
also assuming we can meet their energy needs, but eventually they'll be programmed to harvest their own energy as well
all the resources in the world will be harvested by machines and sustained by precise calculations
robots replace doctors and police and every job possible and become our servants
because resources no longer require human labor the cost for that particular resource eventually becomes nothing
same for every other resource and service
making everything free and currency is eliminated

>Germany

If you discount the "minijobs" have many people really have full employment?

Only in this way we managed to maintain some production in Russia. If you give the normal benefits that half the people quit working for the food and go to the unemployment office. Average salary after the fall in oil prices and sanctions began in China.

The same goes for other countries. So we are still in a better situation.

>Hyper-productivity leads to hyper-deflation
That should indeed be happening in theory.
What's worrying me though is that prices for food, oil, rent won't deflate at all, as they're imperfect markets.
(Food because of subsidies all around the developed world.)

well, around here those fake jobs usually count as unemployed because they can't literally get by without signing up as jobless

Why the hell aren't people protesting, then?

Yeah, Finland is better than Germany in some aspects. I am considering to move to Scandinavia.

Nonetheless, we're better off than Spain or Italy for sure.

Now back to automation. Why have tractors or stream engines allowed humans to earn more and move to better jobs, whilst computers and robots don't?

don't you understand it's overall getting worse?

>Why have tractors or stream engines allowed humans to earn more and move to better jobs, whilst computers and robots don't?

tractors and steam engines mostly displaced horses while left the fiddly parts to human intelligence

when however you craft machines to surpass human capability in intelligence the area will remain controlled by machines in perpetuity

Once you get chess AI good enough to beat the world champion 9/10 times it would be inhuman to require welfare recipient to beat a game of chess against the AI to claim his vitamin allowance

It has never been my position to deny this. Hence I made this thread.

What I was arguing about is that unemployment in the Eurozone has a lot to do with the €.

Agricultural technology certainly displaced human farmers.

In the middle ages, half of the working population was necessary to sustain food production. Now it's down to 1-2% in developed countries.

You will embrace socialism and enjoy the scarcity free eutopian comforts of having robots take care of everything for you.

That's sadly not what has happened in the developed world... Low wage workers live in a desperate situation, not in an Utopia.

put it his way op...

the plutocrats and their pets wont be going hungry

We'll finally live in a eutopia in which people only work for gratification, robots do all the work, and the concept of wealth becomes irrelevant. Humanity is free to enjoy itself.
And everyone lives happily ever after whilst Ayn Rand violently spins in her grave helping to power the robots with a turbine generator.

Well but you said this was a problem in the past, but in this case workers are being replaced so rapidly that we have no chance to adapt. Also don't forget that the European farmers that got replaced during the industrial revolution came to the New World to find opportunities. But now we don't have new places to do this.

This situation is unsustainable and will lead to collapse and civil unrest, protectionism in industrialized countries, and probably war. Your free utopia is only for the elites.

>In the middle ages, half of the working population was necessary to sustain food production. Now it's down to 1-2% in developed countries.

Where do humans go after they've been displaced from all skillsets required to satisfy the needs of the rich and have no way of competing on the market owned by supercorporations?

Automation and machine intelligence is a one-way street, humans will never retake anything lost to the machine; if the computer can optimize computer chip designs better than human engineer at fraction of time required what are the long term prospects for anyone not in the literal top one percent?

I'd need a job to lose in the first place

Welfare for everyone

>tfw was on welfare before it was cool

maybe we should not have let women in the workplace

look at your pic. where are the feminists?

I never said that this problem was in the past. I actually believe that the automation of today is MORE of a problem today.

Since it takes far more creativity and education to create and fill new jobs today, in comparison to the past.

But there's still little hard evidence that technology destroys jobs at a faster rate than it is creating them. If absolutely every job that moved to China or got automated would be lost forever, our unemployment figures would be 30-40%. In fact, they're around 10%.

>after they've been displaced from all skillsets required to satisfy the needs of the rich

source that this will happen? They keep inventing new skillsets

>where are the feminists?

In cushy government jobs

yeah it was the American who said that sorry for mixing shit up

>What will happen to us when computers and robots take all our jobs?
Computer scientist here, this will not happen, technological advancement increases and diversifies the economy, it doesn't hinder it or cause a net loss in jobs, always a net increase.

>Humanity is free to enjoy itself.

If you live in a juridicial cage, have no way of climbing up and are struck down at random intervals for arbitrary reasons how do you continue to exist, much less enjoy yourself?

>Where do humans go after they've been displaced from all skillsets required to satisfy the needs of the rich

That's certainly what the farmers destroying machinery out of protest certainly also thought.

And yet here we are, their ancestors, working shorter hours for far better living conditions.

>public sector
>better conditions, higher salaries

is it like this in other countries? how terrible

>source that this will happen?

Yeah, well, new openings include organ harvesting victim and rich people safari hunting prey

>it doesn't hinder it or cause a net loss in jobs, always a net increase

That leaves to explain why there is an abundance of working force all around the developed world, whilst decades ago, there was a shortage.

Looks pretty equal to me since they need 25 female to do as much work as 3 male.

>and are struck down at random intervals for arbitrary reasons how do you continue to exist, much less enjoy yourself?

I can't understand how people liked Sierra adventure games either

listen to merkel and hillary you filthy goyim

more immigrants will somehow solve the job and housing market crisis'

Guys, guys.
Calm down.
The AI will come. The AI will take over the world, and the age of clock will be over. A new machine will rule mankind and civilization.

Nobody will know what it will be like. Nobody will fight it. Humans who do, become the new niggers. You have been warned.

I don't know about other countries but that's how it is over here. They don't have to compete with anyone and don't have to worry about things like being competent or getting things done or profits they just suck off the tit of Mr. Taxpayer.

In the past, new jobs did not require high IQ, education and very specific mental abilities like they do now. Literally only a very small percentage of the population will be even qualified to apply to the jobs that will be created in the future.

>And yet here we are, their ancestors, working shorter hours for far better living conditions.

You know, they didn't call them robber barons for no reason, there was starvation and might makes right doctrine was enforced with guns

Just masturbate more. Drugs. There's loads to do!

I won't live long enough to have this myself but I love the idea of future humans having near immortality.

All stupidity aside, the Science Fiction author Iaian M Banks wrote a lot about how a society that has no true need to labour would function

>What I was arguing about is that unemployment in the Eurozone has a lot to do with the €.
It's more to do with there being far more supply than demand, not the currency itself. Sure, if you had a strong currency and economy, you could create meaningless jobs just for the sake of having jobs, but ultimately even that solution would be detrimental in the long-term.

Our youth simply don't wish to work for what they see as "dog money" and want to get a well-paying job in their early 20s or they simply refuse to work.
There's plenty of work out there if you're desperate enough - and some jobs like law enforcement and security are in more need of able hands than ever. You can literally walk into a security company's HQ and ask for a job, and you'll be employed within two weeks.

Then economy is gotten rid of, solar powered will sky rocket in price. But due to the working class being put out of work the thought of money is then pushed aside, and true peace if made due to the biggest source of the jewish evil:money. As then every man can have what he wants without needing anything.

Looking forward to it personally. Assuming the AI/AI's are benevolent. It's really going to suck otherwise. BRING ON THE SINGULARITY BABY

The last 100 years of Russian residents were poor or very poor. Only a decade of high oil prices allowed a little to raise living standards. Mongrel domestic politics all destroyed. Now we roll in the third world. Another year or two of cheap oil - default. Nobody wants to invest in the kingdom of corruption and lawlessness.

then what are the jobs that people create after service has been automated? the economy can only support so many novelty small businesses.

Nonetheless, in the long run it was a very, very significant improvement for everyone that farmers were displaced.

>You can literally walk into a security company's HQ and ask for a job, and you'll be employed within two weeks.

You need half a dozen certifications for it over here. Probably so the processing and education of them creates more unnecessary jobs.

>I love the idea of future humans having near immortality.

Literally for only mister Soros and his personal doctors and other key personnel

>Our youth simply don't wish to work for what they see as "dog money" and want to get a well-paying job in their early 20s

But that's what everyone received in the west in the 1960s. There was an abundance of jobs that were payed better than ever.
Why isn't this happening today?

>no reports of dissent after all dissenters were took out and shot
>unit morale excellent comrade!

>Why isn't this happening today?
The bubble burst. The lack of demand caught up to the overabundance of supply and there was no more money appearing out of thin air to throw at completely useless projects like paying 1k a month to someone who only brought in 200 euros at best with their labour.

If you want something good, you have to work towards it. You can't live off your parents' hard labout and the Marshall plan forever.

Not as many women in the workforce back then?

Maybe?

This isn't getting us anywhere.

How's farmers being displaced different from menial white collar jobs displaced today?

>You can't live off your parents' hard labout and the Marshall plan forever.

Millenials today are better educated than boomers, yet they often earn less in the US.

Every human bean on earth will become a NEET.

>robots
First you need to worry about nigger, poos and asians taking your jobs.

US labor force participation rate is already below 70% to official figures.

Its way more than just "menial white collar"

Labor participation rate has a lot to do with the demographics. More people retiring.

Also, the US has a gaping trade deficit.

At some point the globalists run out of borders to dissolve and poor to exploit and worth of human labor sinks below the cost of machine

>Labor participation rate has a lot to do with the demographics. More people retiring.

If you're retired you're not in labour force pool to begin with..

>captcha
>invalid

Now tougher competition for jobs. If you do not want to work for food - you have to learn and learn again. But even many years of training does not guarantee a job.

>things will be cheap
Doesn't matter when no one has a job to get money

If you want to make yourself valuable in a labour market that includes robots, you're going to need a skillset that a robot can't do. If you work in an office cubicle adding things up in Excel all day, for example, you're fucked. If however, you know how to wire a house, you're probably going to be safe for a while at least. The jobs that go first aren't just going to be McDonald's workers - the white collar middle class will be fucked the hardest.

Why hasn't anyone voted against Putin's cronies last elections? Your participation rate was around 45%.

Sitting in an university for 3 years and having a piece of paper does not mean that you're any more useful to society.
Engineers, architects and PR reps are in fucking high demand these days while you'd be hard-pressed to find work as a History or Feminist Sciences major directly out of school.

Again, it comes down to supply and demand - there's not some magical force that dictates how much a person is worth, people are paid for the time they put into jobs that other people can't do or don't want to do. The more saturated the market, the less you have to pay prospective candidates since there will always be someone desperate enough to work for pennies.

Okay, the American job market certainly got worse, as it did in every developed country.

But this could also be due to globalization, not automation.

I can't think of any great inventors who did anything while on welfare

>Engineers, architects and PR reps are in fucking high demand these days

In Estonia, possibly, although I doubt that.
In Germany, there's a surplus of architects and PR graduates. And engineers have to make countless applications before being offered a temporary contract.

From what I understand solicitor and doctors will be soon to go.

>In Estonia, possibly, although I doubt that.
The problem here is that a lot of youth with good degrees move to work in the West, so we're very hard pressed to find competent workers to work for half the pay they'd get abroad.
So yeah, there are a ton of jobs available.

And to be honest, people from Eastern Europe are willing to work for less pay than Germans, for example, and mostly do just a good of a job. I believe it'd be better for your economy if you stopped allowing the employment of foreign workers. It'd be better for all of us.

>for example, you're fucked. If however, you know how to wire a house, you're probably going to be safe for a while at least.

Finland is already kill.

They bring in cheap labour that work below legal minimium. Ethnic finns are getting to be a rare sight at a construction job

We're very, very much dependent on qualified foreign labour force and gain a lot from it, so no one will stop it.

And if there'd an abundance of jobs in Estonia, that's good for you, isn't it?

Yeah I meant under nice circumstances obviously, I think the future of humanity is probably pretty shitty but it's nice to hope and dream otherwise

If you're a consultant neurosurgeon or a criminal lawyer, you're probably safe for now but yes, the lower echelon jobs in those sectors are at risk as they're basically box ticking exercises and box ticking exercises are logical flowcharts - something machines can use far quicker than humans. Accountancy is particularly fucked. As are bottom rung financial analyst positions. If your job involves data entry and calculation you're at risk from a machine that can interpret the same data and enter it correctly. Right now your phone can read text in a foreign language and translate it into your own - not perfectly but close to it. Imagine a global or semi-global standardised accountancy sheet system that a computer can read; all of a sudden, KPMG don't need 90% of their accountancy staff, all of whom will be white collar workers earning a pretty penny. Interesting times ahead.

99% of mass media controlled by the Kremlin. Propaganda has inspired a lot of people that without Putin's cronies will apocalypse. In addition, they actively used the forced municipal workers to collect their votes for the ruling party. The rest of the people think that anything from them does not depend on and may not vote.
As a result, Putin's party of friends gained 76% and will fuck us 5 years.

Depends on whether or not the population is happy and provided for. If they are not provided for and unhappy, they will revolt and smash everything until they are. I think that's rather understandable, don't you? Regardless, go into a field that isn't so easily handled by machines and you should be okay for a while. Machines can't reason, go into a field that requires a lot of that.

>And if there'd an abundance of jobs in Estonia, that's good for you, isn't it?
There's no one to do it - you essentially have to go for the scraps that can barely speak the state language and need a fucking translator just to be able to communicate with them. I'd much rather have grumbling Estonians forced to work for the people than fifth column Russians who have no intent to assimilate.

So learning Russian would be a bad investment of time in your opinion?

This. Adding women to the workforce essentially increased the labor pool by 50%