Why is a flat tax bad?

Why is a flat tax bad?

The same reason Delicious flat chest is bad

cause rich people have more money than me >:(

Its not

Because all taxes are bad.

it's... not?

Because there is always some inherent unfairness in capitalist societies. It's way easier to make money when you have money. Taxes are WAY too high as it is though.

It's regressive.

its the least bad of all taxes
taxation is theft

Because it doesn't tax the middle class enough to pay for them programs.

We shouldn't have to pay the government anything, taxes or no, in fact if anything the government should pay us because without the people there wouldn't even be a government,

Assuming you are implying the elimination of deductions and credits, it's bad. Because I'll lose my job. Congress will lose power to negotiate with donors.

To play devils advocate, if we tax 20% of income tax from one person earning $20,000 and another earning $100,000 a year it will look like this:
$20,000= $4000 taxed leaving them with $14,000
$100,000= $20,000 is taxed leaving them with $80,000.
Therefore, in the view of those lower down on the earnings list you are being taxed far more proportionally than someone earning more than you.

Because rich people have more money than me >:(

Government gets more with progressive taxes.
Theoretically.

poor people should just get better jobs then. who cares if automation takes over fast food workers jobs, they can die out.

what if we tax everyone 50% and give enormous government subsidies to everything?

It's easy to build a minimum threshold, for your example say any amounts over 25k are taxed.

Your argument doesnt hold water.

Flat tax works great, but it is also necessary to remove most if not all loopholes where the rich can get exemptions.
Then it's fine.

Because the rich don't pay taxes now.

subsidies are bad.


If you want a flat tax rate it should be a fixed integer, not a percentage of the person's income.

1) can't generate as much revenue to pay for shit like the military
2) richies will have too much unused wealth which will stagnate the economy

it's biased against the poor and towards the rich

let's say a flat tax of 15% was leveled against all people

someone making 10k a year needs that 15% of their income a fuck of a lot more than someone making 1 billion a year needs that 15%

A flat tax is basically a regressive tax where the established fucks will avoid taxes and the poor will cough up more.

Red pill man.

That would be a problem if the people implementing flat taxes were complete idiots but fortunately they generally aren't. Alberta had a flat tax before the PC party decided the P mattered more then the C. All that has to be done is have a higher amount when taxes first kick in, in Alberta that was at 20k well in the rest of Canada it was around 10k. That meant that working full time minimum wage in Alberta you would pay almost no taxes.

About half of my country doesn't pay any taxes.

It's time they paid their fair share.

They don't pay federal income tax

They still pay everything else

>money in a bank account is unused
Stop being an economic retard before you comment on economics.

>they dont pay the thing that costs more than all the other things combined

Doesn't sound fair to me.

It isn't, it would be good. Everyone pays 5%, companies too. Unless a small bisiness owners company is his only income. Don't double ding the kittle bro.

The main problem is our countries have to pay (((private banks))) and we are in debt to them.

All of these ideas like raising the minimum wage, tax breaks for the poor, tax breaks for the rich are all band aid type solutions to a giant economic wound.

Gotta get rid of the current fiat debt based economic system. Then we can have some actual money.

Yikes. This board is 18+ you know.

Sorry for typos.. rum nightcap is getting to me.

perhaps this is because they need the money more

neither is the fact that some people are born into extreme poverty and others into extreme wealth

at the end of the day "doesn't sound fair to me" is not an argument

>richies will have too much unused wealth which will stagnate the economy
This. Everyone knows that when someone makes a lot of money they fill a swimming pool with it instead of investing and shit.

>they store it in a national bank

Because the free market is better at weeding out and abandoning failed businesses. If a government official backs a subsidy, their political future is OWNED by that company. If it goes down in flames they will likely lose votes. Due to this incest, politicians will go to extreme lengths to guarantee their pet projects stay afloat.

86% of millionaires are first generation wealthy. They made their own money and many come from poverty. This country has amazing social mobility compared to the non-western world. We are not living in a serf based slave system.

Stop trying to take from others who have it better than you.

Actual accountant here.
Flat taxes are "bad" because theyre not entirely sustainable. In the eyes of the IRS, everyone needs X amount of money to get by. So the system is set up so people earning less than X get reimbursed and people paying more than X pay according to their income.

I know im in the minority with this opinion, but the IRS is actually a shockingly benevolent arm of the government that gouges everyone for money in a very sustainable and meaningful way. Hence things like carry-forwards (trump) and charitable donation deductions(hilary)

Seems most philosophically fair to me; rich people still pay more with the same % across the board; around 5-10% rate sounds good to me

And taxation is still theft faggot

>"unused wealth"
poorfag detected. Learn to finance before you speak you dunce.

t. triggered ancap

How is tax not sustainable?

People go to work, then pay the government. Make babies, repeat the process.

How is it not sustainable?

Theft is always sustainable. People produce things, you steal it. Ffs.

None of this is a reason why the wealthy shouldn't have to pay more than the poor and in fact the idea of the "self made man" is a myth

Were it nor for established roads, currency systems, police, and many more things that society comes together to provide then he would be nothing

Are you a millionaire? Do you really think you'll be one some day?
Open your eyes and stop getting played like a fiddle by the rich and powerful you absolute fucking cuck

...thereby deincentivizing individual career growth by creating deadweight loss at every tax tier. No system is perfect, but let's not go around calling the IRS benevolent.

Pretty sure he forgot the ((())) around accountant.

Enjoy lifelong poverty.

>In the eyes of the IRS
No small wonder the IRS would be against it. It's a fuck huge independent agency with it's own judges, courts, and police and accountants. That all goes away with a flat tax.

The government is inherently bad at everything it does and sucks up way more money for the equivalent result a business would give you

Voluntary taxation is a possibile. As is voluntary currency.

But that will never be discussed.

>taxes are bad
>he uses roads
>firefighters are bad
>ambulances are bad

>Were it nor for established roads, currency systems, police, and many more things that society comes together to provide then he
would be nothing
Yeah but income tax doesn't pay for any of those things. Property taxes, sales tax, etc pay for that shit.

I have my own success story, don't tell me it doesn't happen. You are the cuck if you think that someone who takes a serious risk to start a business should pay more just because he worked hard to become successful. What a ridiculous reason to pay more than the average citizen.

what is the likelihood of convincing people to donate to a corrupt and bloated system when they could pocket the cash instead? good luck with that

They store it in a swimming pool actually.

Ok so you're not a millionaire and you never will be yet you somehow think such people should pay the same percentage as a minimum wage worker

It's funny that you literally shill for the people that own you

because i live in a country with niggers

because tariffs are better.

>self made man is a myth
"I can't succeed, therefore nobody can!"
You'll never be successful with that attitude. Your lack of success is not because success is impossible, you fail because you never believed you could be victorious in the first place. I actually feel sorry for you.

As I said before, the stats show that the majority of millionaires are first generation wealthy and were not born into old money.

I'm not hearing any good arguments as to why someone should be penalized for being more successful.

>never will be
Based on what? How are you so convinced everyone else is as bad at finances as you? What convinced you everyone is bound to lose?

Yeah interest it pays for your smelly fatty ass to continue living in mom's basement, and for said poor mother's antidepressants.
Oh, and let's not forget good ole Uncie Sam's fighters which will have the honor of doing in China and Russia pretty soon.

ad hominem aka not an argument
i would say try again but please dont it's clear you're incapable of actually discussion

they prospered in a society that gave them the tools to do so therefore it is only right that they pay more back into the system that they used to succeed

not an argument for flat tax and if it makes you feel any better then know this

there will never be a flat tax in this country

But there is a percentage of those born in poverty who become quite wealthy through business investment or invention or a myriad of other reasons. They were not given the tools to succeed in any greater amount than their poverty stricken neighbor.

Why should the poor who became successful therefore be taxed at a higher rate than the poor neighbor they grew up with? That is unfair.

>20,000 - 4000 = 14,000

Suppose that it was proven that the government would make more tax revenue if they implemented a flat tax over a progressive tax.
Would you support it?

Because it doesn't maximise state revenue.

You can tax rich people more, so why wouldn't you?

you are incapable of identifying your own bias, and unwilling to entertain the possibility you are wrong, so I'm not sure what else to say here. Not everyone wins, but to make the claim that success is impossible is disingenuous to say the least. Surely you recognize that good fortune is a factor in success, and that random variable of good fortune has lead people to aquire greater wealth than their predecessors right? Success is not based solely on environment, effort and will still mean something.

Because it puts undue burden on poorer people and gives an unfair advantage to wealthier people.

The real reason is that I'm an accountant and I rely on a complex tax system to make my living. Fuck you all, give me money.

It's not. We have it here, it's and it's fine.

Problem is high earners hiding their income. But that happens in progressive taxes too.

If you have more than they do, then they will probably kill you and take your things before they 'die out'.

This is called paying for infrastructure. It also pays for the cops to keep them from killing you.

Your idealism is very young and very naive and has clearly not had to carry any weight.

>"u litrally dont have to pay taxx the constitution doesnt say u have 2

t. shawn haniity

>Success is not based solely on environment
Success is ENTIRELY based on environment. Success at any level is predicated on an environment that allows it. Even the most dedicated genius in the world will never be a success if you put him on an empty island with no resources. He will starve just like anyone else.

>But there is a percentage of those born in poverty who become quite wealthy through business investment or invention or a myriad of other reasons.
Let's see what this percentage is and compare it to those who did not become wealthy

>Why should the poor who became successful therefore be taxed at a higher rate than the poor neighbor they grew up with?
Because they have the means to pay it
their poor neighbor simply does not

>That is unfair.
What is fair about taking 20% of a man's $10k versus 20% of a man's billion?

literally cannot comprehend the fact that you're shilling for the ultra wealthy who see you as on the same level as they see a roach

No I wouldn't and the reason is because a flat tax hurts poor people a lot
let's say the flat tax is set at 15%
that 15% gone from someone making 10k per year really hurts them whereas it doesnt affect the wealthy elites at all really

>meaningless word salad

i was right about you being incapable of forming a coherent thought

don't reply to me again and leave the thread now

progressive taxes assume that the richer you are, the more you had to scam to become rich.

its actually a good assumption because of the fact that the bottom poorfags are HORRIBLE at negotiating pay and managing their finances.

this means the rich fags take advantage of them in millions of ways and a progressive tax is supposed to balance that out by taxing them and using the money for useful things that they would normally have enough money to pay for.

No- regressive taxes are regressive. Flat taxes still place a greater tax burden on the rich.

>Because they have the means to pay it

I can understand your mentality more now. "Each according to their abilities, each according to their needs." Right Marx?

So "they prospered in a society that gave them the tools to do so" isn't your argument?

You seem rather blase about condemning people to poverty. Environment is one of several factors in figuring someone's potential to succeed, but chance and frankly grit also contribute to success.

>Fucking leaf
>The slave master provides the slaves with tools to do their work, therefore the slave master is benevolent.

There's an argument that idiots don't make about flat taxes.

Basically if you earn a lot, you can hire a jew and he will hide your income, in caymans, switzerland or whatever and find you investment and philanthropy loopholes, therefore percentage wise you will pay less than flat.


Again that's not the problem of the flat taxes.

t. triggered sad man

>he doesn't know ambulances are privatized

I know you're a leaf, but not everything grows on trees.

>black and white thinking

this is not an argument at all it in fact a form of ad hoc fallacy so no need to continue

dont reply to me again you brainlet

To be honest, flat-percentage taxes would actually end up being basically fine, IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY ENFORCED.

Right now there are kajillions of loopholes that lawyers can exploit to reduce the tax burden of e.g., a rich dude, so in the end we have things like Trump legally not paying taxes for a long time.

Compelling argument!

">t. triggered ancap"
equally compelling, you silly fag.
Go to bed, sleep it off

Complex problems require complex solutions retard.

>You seem rather blase about condemning people to poverty.
Poverty isn't as bad as people think it is. You think guys in the 1400s were going around hanging themselves because they didn't have iPhones?

The only kind of poverty that matters is absolute poverty. Relative poverty is just whiny cunts like you who've never left the city in your entire life, so fuck off.

"Grit" is not a thing. Smart people take advantage of their environment to get things. Cool. That's great. But being smart isn't a choice. The genetic makeup and the upbringing that created the person with the characteristics to become a success are totally outside of the control of that person. Some people are born with great brains, go to great schools, learn the value of hard work, and can't help but achieve great things. People like Donald Trump, for example. He expends a lot of effort, sure, but how many times does he say he loves what he does and that it doesn't even feel like work, and that he enjoys every second of it? Can you really call it grit when he's literally enjoying every second of it? Is he really facing down insurmoutnable adversity with big brass balls when the whole thing is a giant, pleasurable game? Donald Trump's success would be noteworthy is he absolutely hated his entire life and everything that he had to do, but that's not the situation.

People who succeed are simply born right, into the right circumstances, and their success is just dumb luck and them doing what they would have to do. Praising Trump - or anyone - because they were lucky enough to be born and bred with the right characteristics in a way completely out of their control is the equivalent of sucking off the cock that just raped you in the ass.

Gas the elites, class war now.

You think that a man who came from the same poverty as another man but ended up becoming successful should be forced by the state to pay more simply 'because he has the means to pay it'.

That is the most unfair thing I have heard in this entire thread and quite literally communist thinking.

In a consumer driven economy it is better to have lots of middle class people than some middle class a few rich and most poor.

making and selling 1 bicycle, 8 volvos and 1 BMW does more for the economy than 5 bicycles, 4 volvos and a Lamborghini.

The only way a flat tax doesn't result in a small group of super rich owning everything within a few hundred years is if there is a 100% estate tax.

taxes in the US are for social engineering and not "being fair"

so what if it's communist thinking? that's not an argument

things like flat taxes (thank god we dont have one) only serve to keep the rich rich and the poor poor

im glad you find a progressive tax to be unfair so that you'll spend your entire life bitching about fairness in a world where such a thing does not exist

stay mad you alt-right scum

It was a question, not an argument, asshole.
Because in one post you justified it with an argument to morality (it's not moral to make poor people pay the same as rich people), and in the other an argument to practicality (paying back into the system which made them great in the first place). I want to know why YOU believe it's justified.

ayy

>alt-right
>flat tax
kek
fucking retarded ctrl-leftists.

Complex solutions create complex problems

Now you're just resorting to personal insults because you've been so BTFO. I own my own business, I am my own personal success story. Not everyone on here is a neckbeard with no financial skills.

Can you also explain to me how in this incredibly rigged and unfair system where the elite 1% dominate everything and everyone is just a slave to the policies they make, they have failed to institute this flat tax to further their agenda?

Taxation is theft.

taxes b racist

theft is inevitable in a world with no rules and just because you have rules doesn't mean governments do.

They have the power and the guns and they tell you what you owe them, if you don't like it you can always go to jail or die in a shoot out.

There's an argument that idiots don't make about any kind of tax.

It doesn't matter how much someone earns, rich or poor, there are people who will find ways to avoid paying their share of tax. Selling drugs, working cash in hand jobs, theft.

Although that's not the problem with tax, that's just what people do.

Rich people can afford to be taxed more.
No it's not fair but the gubberment needs to get money from somewhere for dem (((programs))).

a flat tax isn't bad it's fair. you will always be taxed but it's wrong to blame tax for your poverty and punish the wealthy for their advantages. people need to stop being lowly bottomfeeders and take fucking responsibility for thier lifes... if your poor your either too lazy or too stupid to advance and succeed. a system stops you? then why aren't you breaking it? to anxious thats your brain fuck it. just stuck somewhere well life isn't fair.

taxes pay for stuff to work. if it's exploited or wasted then do something about that but stop being a whiney bitch about tax. christ it's almost as bad as the shithead how imagine that everything is free and requires no work you like like university. fucking hell do these idiots have such cuddled comfy lives they just imagine that the electric and teachers pay themselves..... fucking slime.

>gets BTFO
>gets called out for it
>"n-no u!"

Lol you really are pretty pathetic especially when you actually advocate for the wealthy to pay less taxes

the amount of tax dollars that go towards welfare is incredibly small in this country

it's very hard to get on bennies here compared to other countries and if you're a childless single man it's impossible

instituting a flat tax here would result in a massive tax deficit that would harm the economy because whoops! all of a sudden there's not enough money to fund the armed forces, infrastructure projects, etc

I guess it depends where you live. As an outsider it seems that the capitalist view in america makes people selfish and almost hate people in need even though your taxes benifit others and thus society and yourselves. I think the resentment comes from the shocking exploitation by goverments, corporations, insurances companies.. america seems to be all dicks and no holes. for this reason i feel the socialist responsiblity of goverment which we bestow onit with our votes and money should be reestablished in america however...

trumps right about creating productivity in america to bring back jobs and thus personal wealth for individuals which brings peoples lifes up as much as welfare and betters society. in this case i think people would resent taxes less and understand the value of work and not be trapped in welfare dependency which only costs money never makes it.

also could someone explain fedial taxes to me. the reason we brexited is because fedialism is too disconnected and undemocratic and misuses money. it seems odd to me that you put up with fedial goverments that give you a shit unaccountable policial class rather than just free movement and trade aggreements between individual states.