C’mon it wasn’t THAT bad

Caleb Mitchell
Caleb Mitchell

C’mon it wasn’t THAT bad

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=k2qvULu70dE
youtube.com/watch?v=2FxpNCvBV_s
youtu.be/xmA_raKKRBY?t=14m52s
youtube.com/watch?v=WOg3ZE3hNQc

Landon Clark
Landon Clark

Maybe it's because I was a kid when it came out, but I fucking legitimately love every second of this movie, and quietly mourn in silence every now and then that we no longer have a neon-gothic camp batman in movies with that incredible soundtrack and the bombastic A-list celebrity villains. If there's a heaven that's molded to each person's deepest individual desire, mine would be living in a joel schumacher crafted DC movie universe.

Blake Howard
Blake Howard

It was fun, but it wasn't meant to be fun.
It was a sequel to Batman Forever, which was colorful but still played itself mostly serious. And Forever was a sequel to Tim Burton Batmans which were both also quite serious.

If Batman & Robin was stand alone? It'd be praised along side the animated Batman 66 movies.
Instead people came in wanting action packed plots that weren't complete nonsense.

It is bad because it was a dissapointment.

Cooper Foster
Cooper Foster

The only crime these movies made was the bat nipples. So fucking unnecessary.
Mr. Freeze is Kino tho.

Cooper Howard
Cooper Howard

They made Bane a drooling moron

Zachary Lewis
Zachary Lewis

It was fun, but it wasn't meant to be fun.
they hired schumacher to have a more lighthearted, silly batman movie that would be able to sell toys and market to children.

Forever also had jokes clearly meant to be homages to the 60s show.

Yes, forever and B+R were meant to be fun.

Asher Thompson
Asher Thompson

What about the bat credit card?

Asher Robinson
Asher Robinson

Cmon that one was funny

Owen Lee
Owen Lee

batman and robin(and batman forever) weren't meant to be fun
u wot
youtube.com/watch?v=k2qvULu70dE

Zachary Barnes
Zachary Barnes

sell toys and market to children.
The latter I'm not going to really contemplate too much, but I'll never understand what possesses the toy sales people to insist on affecting the writing. Couldn't they still sell toys all the same?
I recall seeing a bunch of shit as a kid that never appeared in a show and still wanting to buy it anyhow, no ads even required.
I'm lost honestly how these things happen. I suspect someone just gambles during a meeting that turning media into a commercial may get more sales and are betting that if they make the same amount no one will get too angry, if they make more by chance they can feign being correct and if they make less they can just blame it on not being the right sales angle.

Then again maybe someone is just that stupid and I'm thinking too much of their shrewd thought process.

Joshua Moore
Joshua Moore

batman returns was heavily criticized at the time for how dark it was, making it very difficult to sell to companies like mcdonalds.

Zachary Williams
Zachary Williams

It was fun, but it wasn't meant to be fun.

I guess all those mr. freeze puns were meant to be totally serious

And Uma Thurman in a gorilla suit was just a social commentary about how people are animals

Aiden Harris
Aiden Harris

youtube.com/watch?v=2FxpNCvBV_s

Carson Turner
Carson Turner

doesn't give Batgirl nips
sexist shit

Robert Rogers
Robert Rogers

pretty sure schumacher is a flaming homo.

Noah King
Noah King

See the thing about B&R is that the "fun" only takes up about twenty minutes of the movie. 60's Batman works because even when Adam West isn't involved in poorly-choreographed fight scenes, he's living in an absurd fantasy-world where henchmen walk around in shirts labeled "Henchman", couriers walk up to Batman as he stands in the park and say they have a message for Batman, and he can figure out the villains plot by applying nonsense-logic to a supplied riddle. It's not just a story where a few absurd things happen, it's absurd down to its very structure.

B&R has a few absurd sequences like most everything to do with Mr. Freeze, but people forget about how much of the movie is just fucking boring. There's the whole sideplots with Batgirl becoming Batgirl and Alfred dying of a disease that are played completely straight, which not only makes them boring but also neuters any sort of overall campiness. The boring even seeps into bits of the movie that start out absurd, like how Poison Ivy makes Batman and Robin both fall in love with her and it starts out with a silly auction sequence, but after a while the movie starts playing their mutual jealousy straight and it becomes just awkward.

Take the comedy out of a 60's Batman episode and there's nothing left. Take the comedy out of B&R and the bulk of the plot is still intact, along with 40 minutes of horribly dull sideplots. It doesn't fully commit and so the whole thing just falls apart.

Jayden Clark
Jayden Clark

Batgirl has nipples on her suit and nobody bats an eye, Batman has nipples on his suit everyone loses their mind.

Andrew Butler
Andrew Butler

I was going to argue the point with you, but it's valid. the 'serious' shit really bogs down the movie, not the nonsense with ivy or freeze. Shit, even bane is dumb, but not bad.

Henry Barnes
Henry Barnes

making it very difficult to sell to companies like mcdonalds.
Fuck. That explains it, the people more focused on getting happy meal promotions would derail into clown territory.

Roughly how much do those sort of things make or help anyway? I just can't imagine it being that valuable to sell cheap plastic shit at fast food joints that you'd butcher your own series as it's building steam.
I mean I like neat merch like pic related and the heat image mugs, but if decent merch comes at the expense of a decent movie something's gone wrong. Though I guess people had a different idea of the worth and quality of comic book movies back in the 90s. Probably figured nothing of value was being lost.

Ayden Perry
Ayden Perry

And of course If forget the pic.

Ryder Sanders
Ryder Sanders

If movies can't effectively market, they fail. That's why green lantern(and later GL:TAS) bombed so hard: the movie did terribly with small children, and even if the movie sold tickets well enough, they utterly failed to sell toys and brand themselves to children. When the animated series came out, the massive surplus of GL merch led to toy stores not buying into the new product, which meant that new product didn't sell. Forget viewer ratings, GL:TAS wasn't marketable, and thus it got canned after 1 season.

Cooper Watson
Cooper Watson

They tried.
youtu.be/xmA_raKKRBY?t=14m52s

Nicholas Ortiz
Nicholas Ortiz

I guess the logistics of this stuff will always just be fuzzy to me.
As a kid the interests of other kids was always so wildly different from one group to the next and fickle within a few months at that. One minute they'd be going on about the last movie they watched, the next they'd be about sound and LED yoyos or whatever so even if you made a movie kid friendly they might not watch it or even if they do they might not buy anything when a fad for pogs has their attention.
With that I never figured appealing generally to kids was that bright an idea compared to a proven, dedicated fanbase (of all ages, not just wizards in their parent's basement) of the franchise itself who'd buy the merch simply to support.

Parker Taylor
Parker Taylor

think back for a moment though, on the series that lasted more than a few weeks, for a couple months.

Did you not have pogs with those shows on them, or yoyos that just had a cheap-ass sticker on them?

being able to fit into the fads was what led to successful series.

Camden Ramirez
Camden Ramirez

It was trying to copy the Adam West show a little to much. The '66 show came across as endearing though. B&R was more toy and fast food commercial.

Clooney was a decent playboy Bruce Wayne, but he just didn't have the depth for the Batman half. (or even the serious Bruce)

Christopher Gray
Christopher Gray

They actually did try but the studio nixed it quickly. (and honestly back in the day the MPAA would have probably given it an instant R)

Same thing with her having a cowl. Studio execs mandated that she have a domino mask like Robin.

Robert Howard
Robert Howard

Always weird how people blame the directors first when there are several hurdles to get through

Jonathan Thompson
Jonathan Thompson

to be fair, even schumacher apologized for B+R.

Evan Mitchell
Evan Mitchell

holy rusted metal batman
wasn't meant to be fun

The writing is so punny I legitimately act as if Odonnel is playing Greyson on NCIS:LA. the writing and delivery fit right in. Only procedurals have such writing. Procedurals and B&R.

Nathan Miller
Nathan Miller

B&R was more toy and fast food commercial.

I don't think enough anons understand this. The studio mandated a LOT from Schumacher, to the point of grossly interfering with prop production and casting.

He isn't entirely to blame for the mess that was Batman and Robin. WB was terrified of scaring off the soccer mom crowd after Batman Returns. The dark violence and blatant sexuality with Catwoman scared away a lot of families.

Nicholas Stewart
Nicholas Stewart

I think it's starting to click, so the aim in fact is to ride the chaotic current of a kid's interest.

But something about that just seems insane, after all I still feel you could slap a property's image onto merch without actually altering the property itself.
Obviously I'm not really sure how these contracts work, I imagine there's some sort of internal idea from one place to the next as to how the image of something they promote might reflect on their family friendly brand or something, and yet I can't gather how and why the push and pull of this even happens.

I imagine Infinity War isn't going to be an R rated massacre but for the most part I feel they can make a serious movie and sell frivolous stuff like 98755271 without the movie turning into Wacky Races. Thanks for trying to help me along, but I'll just never really get it.

Michael Scott
Michael Scott

WB was terrified of scaring off the soccer mom crowd after Batman Returns. The dark violence and blatant sexuality with Catwoman scared away a lot of families.

This is one of the reasons they gave Nolan a almost blank check for Batman Begins. They realized that B&R damaged the franchise and figured a more serious take might be worth it.

John James
John James

I still feel you could slap a property's image onto merch without actually altering the property itself.
very true, but if the parents don't want their kids exposed to it, and/or if the kids aren't interested in it, it's not going to sell.

David Turner
David Turner

The studio mandated a LOT from Schumacher, to the point of grossly interfering with prop production and casting.

This. All the car/vehicle designs had to pass through the toy department before they could be finalized. It lead to the really stupid open cockpit batmobile in pic related.

Hudson Mitchell
Hudson Mitchell

I unironically like that design, it's sleak and sexy in a very arch way, and it features the return of two Bat-fins after the weird adjustable mono-fin on the Forever Batmobile. It also had a better translucent bits-to-jet-black-chassis ratio.

Kayden Hughes
Kayden Hughes

I treat it like it's 60's Batman and it becomes watchable

Jayden Ramirez
Jayden Ramirez

The reason batman has a batmobile with an open cockpit is in this version of gotham he's successfully managed to clean up the city and fund infrastructure improvements in the way of incredible towering architecture and statues. The only real criminals left arrive in the form of supercriminals that require greater flexibility for ejecting out of the batmobile on a moments notice to scale said architecture.

Bentley Nelson
Bentley Nelson

batmilk and cookies for everyone

Camden Watson
Camden Watson

The sad thing is about 5-6 years later Clooney would have been able to put a decent Wayne performance in.

I don't know if he ever could have done a serious interrogation scene though. Bale, as much as the voice sucked, did pretty will in the scenes with Falcone and the one from begins with Gordon's partner.

Kevin Lopez
Kevin Lopez

This was the movie that took the yellow out of the suit and began the slow descent into tacticool shit.

It was absolutely supposed to be fun. It was practically musical theater.

Noah Turner
Noah Turner

DO YOU FEEL IN CHARGE?

Brayden Morgan
Brayden Morgan

That's bane though and that's the one bale flick I didn't reference.

Angel Edwards
Angel Edwards

I misread Bale as Bane.

WHERE ARE THEY

Levi Hughes
Levi Hughes

spoiler
now thats the raspy anger I had in mind.

SWEAR TO ME

Isaac Wright
Isaac Wright

HARVEY DENT *pant*
CAN WE....*pant* TRUST HIM

Wyatt Roberts
Wyatt Roberts

THISCH SCHITTY...*gasp*...JUSHT SHOWED YOU...*pant*..THAT ITSH FULL OF PEEPLE...*gasp*..REDDY TO BELIEVE IN GEWWwwewed

Noah Collins
Noah Collins

Now here’s a big guy

Aaron Barnes
Aaron Barnes

youtube.com/watch?v=WOg3ZE3hNQc

Alexander Hughes
Alexander Hughes

The only real criminals left arrive in the form of supercriminals
See, I'd agree with that, if it weren't for the neon facepainted rape gangs.

Carter Brooks
Carter Brooks

Has getting caught part of his plan thought? Didnt think so

Bentley Rogers
Bentley Rogers

TFW can't commit crimes without getting POW'd or BAM'd
sitting around putting on make up and listening to the goo goo dolls while you wait for the women to come to you

Evan Watson
Evan Watson

But imagine if just one of them had a "My Name is Rob" sweatshirt. Fuck that coulda been kino.

Matthew Watson
Matthew Watson

BAAAAAAAAANE!!!

Kevin Thompson
Kevin Thompson

Fuck. That explains it, the people more focused on getting happy meal promotions would derail into clown territory.
I mean, why do you think that "I'll get drive-thru" line is in Forever? It's so it can be plastered on every McD commercial

Dominic Brown
Dominic Brown

tfw you would kill for a batburger scene in a batman movie

Jaxon Brooks
Jaxon Brooks

FUCK I HAD THESE GROWING UP

Joshua Russell
Joshua Russell

He is, and the bat nipples are entirely his idea.

Anthony Cox
Anthony Cox

blatant sexuality with Catwoman scared away a lot of families.
which is kinda ironic considering most of the women in Forever(Dr Meridian, Sugar & Spice) were fairly sexual, and like 70% of Poison Ivy's dialogue in B&R was innuendo of one form or another

I think we can all agree he would have been better as one of Blockbuster, Killer Croc, Solomon Grundy, or even Clayface than as Bane

Connor Adams
Connor Adams

as someone who just watched through all four of them over the last couple days, here's how I'd rate them;

Batman(1989)
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin
Batman Returns

I know some people would be aghast about me putting Returns at the bottom, but I'll say this much, despite it being a well made film(and both Danny Devito and Christopher Walken putting in magnificent performances), I just did not find it all that enjoyable, was overall too depressing

also I like how Bruce develops over the course of the first three films in regards to how he feels about killing, in 89 he avoids killing until he finds out Napier was the one who killed his parents, after which he goes lethal, in Returns he's still willing to kill, but perhaps in seeing what that urge did to Selina led him to realize that he shouldn't be killing, leading to him being non-lethal in Forever and B&R(hence his speech to Dick about killing in the former, while nonetheless respecting that it's ultimately Dick's choice as to whether he should kill Two-Face or not), and indeed be willing to help Freeze in spite of what he had tried to do

Caleb Roberts
Caleb Roberts

Batman Returns
is the one that tried wayyyyyy too much and is usually only rated that highly by people who say "it's more of a catwoman movie" with zero disappointment in their voices.

the note about character growth is actually something I never considered. I'll have to keep it in mind next time I run through them.

to be fair, while I find them hideous and silly they make more sense from a costume designer point of view than the fucking plethora of lines they add to every suit now-a-days. At least that fit the Art Deco design aesthetic. Now they just to tactical shit with straps seams and lines fucking everywhere.

Parker Gonzalez
Parker Gonzalez

I unironically love the visuals in this movie. The weird neon/art-deco/punk thing they went for is kinda cool and I like the over the top costumes. I never really cared about the nipples either, what it's fine that Batman carefully sculpts abs onto his suit in the Keaton and Kilmer movies but nipples are going to far? Thurman and Schwarzenegger were fun as well in a campy Ru Paul kind of way.

Every other part of that film is garbage though

Julian King
Julian King

BATMAN

BATMAN, YOU SAY?

Brody Wright
Brody Wright

I feel exactly the opposite way, Batman Returns and Batman & Robin are both very flawed in different ways, but they're still interesting and fun to watch because they go all-out with their respective aesthetics and tone.

The other two feel more compromised, that's probably why they're the more successful ones, cuz they've got big executive-mandated Bat-setpieces in them that're fun on their own, but don't cohere into good movies.

Maybe it's also part of that executive-pleasing/LCD aiming that they have normie wimmin love interests for Bruce Wayne, which just doesn't feel right to me, especially in the movie.

"I've never been in love before, Alfred."
says the Batman THREE LOVE INTERESTS IN.

Luke Ward
Luke Ward

Kilmer movies
The Batman Forever batsuit (the one with the yellow oval he wore for the majority of the movie) had nipples too, people just didn't notice cuz A) it was darker and harder to tell or B) cuz most promotional art used the new SONAR SUIT(tm) Batsuit they pimped at the end of the movie.

Jackson Howard
Jackson Howard

You can be in a relationship and not be in love user.

Adam Clark
Adam Clark

would anyone actually notice the nipples if they weren't pointed out the suits has them?

Oliver Ross
Oliver Ross

Given how quippy and comedic it is, would modern audiences & critics love Batman & Robin if it came out today? It feels a lot like a marvel movie.

Ethan Allen
Ethan Allen

There's a closeup. Kinda hard to miss

Juan Wood
Juan Wood

as a conservative person, I never understood why it mattered. I think it's insecure people, the kind that think unhinged frank miller batman or a lot of those edgy 90's batman comics are the only true batman.

Noah Lopez
Noah Lopez

more of you know about the nipples before you've even seen the movie.

it's like the lips of the first snake-eyes suit. i never really noticed it in the movie but everyone drew attention to it that during reruns i found myself actively trying to look for it.

Xavier Bell
Xavier Bell

That's bullshit and you know it, he may not have been in love with Vicki but Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer had actual fuck-me chemistry. He straight up told her he loved her.

Logan Sullivan
Logan Sullivan

Nigga how can you miss them? Next you'll tell me no one noticed George Clooney was in the film until it was pointed out

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