Fate/stay night: Heaven's Feel

I've just finished the anime Unlimited Blade Works, who was responsible for the atrocious character design? Please don't tell me that he will work on Heaven's Feel too.

Rin, Saber, and even Gilgamesh looked like shit. I feel like Archer and Lancer were the least impacted by this.

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takeuchi

They forgot how to draw faces

...

Ufotable is already confirmed to be making a set of movies for Heaven's Feel. So it's too late

Saber really looked great in Zero. She looked a bit off in some episodes, but her character design was mostly on point.

Can't say the same for Saber in UBW.

>We will never get a Heaven's Feel manga by Hiroyama

Let's hope they will use the Fate/Zero or early KnK style for these movies.

...

...

Fate has died. It's time to move on to another franchise. One less shitty.

3rei Zero is more fun to read

One can say this about any franchise but it's meangingless unless you have something to prove it, and all the upcoming and current projects counter whatever you'd bring up.

If you're going to bait, at least do it right.

...

>upcoming and current projects counter whatever you'd bring up
Like that shitty adaptation from SHAFT? Or the rhino face Heaven't Feel from ufotable? This series is dead, user. Quit being delusional.

Don't forget about DEEN 2, electric boogaloo

youtube.com/watch?v=u-gNyKIT4_E

Remember the character design Saber vs Herakles? Expect that.

>Heaven't Feel
Kill yourself

Based Sliver Link. Killing this franchise with a single episode. Fucking madmen.

Saber's face when she's forced to destroy the Grail by Kiritsugu is pretty great.
For some reason, I can't stop myself from watching that scene over and over again many times.

It's fucking hilarious.

youtube.com/watch?v=YIV67x05pWI

youtu.be/SnkDLYf8mro

Being Sakura is pure suffering.

>Killing this franchise with a single episode
The manga and merch sell a lot more than the anime, and it just got a GO event
Prisma isn't going away anytime soon

These 3 damn movies will be too good.
But from the comments, people are pointing that they are going for the normal end, because that is the normal end BGM and she is holding that bouquet, that one ending was pure suffering... damn.

Wasn't talking about just Prisma. Fate as we know it is finished. Done. Passed on. Deep six'd.

>Fatetards

Not until Heaven's Feel, my favorite route hasn't been explored enough!

Only considering the ending itself, Normal End is way better than True End.
The problem is True End is proceeded by one of the best scenes in the game.

You're right, the normal end is better, but it's so cruel.

Oh damn... she waited for him for so long.

youtu.be/3X7JEFF9mvs

先輩になら、いいです。

The scene after that was the highlight of Zero for me. Seeing Saber crying with Tragedy And Fate playing in the background... can't do better than that moment.

Regarding the scene where she faces Gilgamesh and later destroys the grail, it's quite unfortunate that the anime didn't show her inversion impulse at that moment. (when she starts to have golden eyes)

>Musou game coming out in a couple months
>TV anime and film series next year
>Two ongoing novel series if you count Case Files
>Grand Order
>Kaleid Liner manga still going strong even if the anime was shit

Yeah, sure. Whatever you say.

>see bait thread
>feels nothing

Hybrid end would be the best option for me. Normal End is great, but leaves many questions unanswered. (Kirei, Illya, etc)

True End answers this question, but the ending itself is bad. (no atonement or amends, characters are portrayed like nothing happened, fan service tier, happy threesome end, etc)

>who was responsible for the atrocious character design?
Tabata

> Please don't tell me that he will work on Heaven's Feel too.
No, Sudou is the one designing the characters(he's also the director).

You can check his work on the Hollow Ataraxia openings.

>no atonement or amends
For what? The ones who survived did nothing wrong.

I think you're confusing HF True for UBW Good.

HF Normal is needlessly negative, dare I say edgy. It sucks for everybody involved. It's not the note that the VN should end on.

She just killed half of the city, almost destroyed the world and put her beloved senpai into lots of pain.

Pretty sure Angra Mainyu isn't a she, not to mention they destroyed him.

>She just killed half of the city
Angra Mainyu is not Sakura.


She begged for Shirou to kill her to stop it, he didn't. Gilgamesh was worthless too, seriously king of heroes my ass couldn't even manage to not get eaten.

Well, technically she was being possessed, but she does feel responsible for all that happened.

Also if she didn't exist it wouldn't have happened that way, so it's her fault for being alive and serving as a vessel.

>blaming Sakura's actions on something that was never even born

>HF Normal is needlessly negative, dare I say edgy
What the fuck am I reading

>it's her fault for being alive
>that logic

>Shirou dies
>Ilya still dies
>Sakura wastes her life waiting
>Rin wastes her life too

But he is right, what's your point?

Read this:

HF True is needlessly positive. Edgy or fan service endings are not welcomed.

Well, the world is very unfair, it can't be helped. Fate's world is even more unfair.

Illya would survive the war and how does Rin waste her life?

True, "Hey look, we got him a new body and put his mind into it, so everything is fine! Let's eat!"

She became an old slut with a grandchild.

>Illya would survive the war
And then dies a year later, alone.

>how does Rin waste her life?
Marries and procreates for the sake of the family rather than finding actual fulfillment in her life. Watching her sister waste away. Not having any real friends after she goes off to the Clock Tower and Ayako goes off to muggle college.

HF True is a fair outcome for Sakura, though. An innocent victim like her deserves happiness.

You're making a lot of assumptions here.

I agree with you. Her smile is beautiful.

>Suffering for the sake of suffering
>Not the definition of edgy

Unless it's being written by Uro, endings in the Nasuverse are usually bittersweet at worst, dead ends notwithstanding. Even dead ends can be bittersweet once in a while, like Sparks Liner High in FSN or that one at the end of Akiha's route in Tsukihime.

Mind of Steel is not one of them.

Hardly. Ilya is going to die; this is established. Rin's only friend before Shirou is Ayako. Rin marries some guy that isn't even given a name and it's clearly not for love. Sakura dies alone.

Who cares if you can have a threesome with Sakura and Rider after that?

True End is just hilarious. Who cares about the people that were killed, right? Who cares about Illyasviel who saved our lives. I swear, they didn't even mention Illya's sacrifice.

That ending is insulting. I don't ask them to feel guilty till the end of time, but at least care about what happened, just show that you cared.

Nope true end is just an sickening fan service tier happy ending.

The very fact that Shirou has a body in HF True means they honored Ilya's sacrifice. I'm sorry you're too stupid to draw conclusions like that without them being shoved in your face.

Illya's only options are to die in the war or live 1-2 more years. Her end in HF normal is the same as her end in Fate, minus Shirou. It's her natural death from aging, she just has a short life. How is that edgy?

>Rin marries some guy that isn't even given a name and it's clearly not for love
That's not like her at all and there's no one to force her to either.

>minus Shirou.
That's why. In Fate, she lives a year as part of a functional family. In HF, she's all alone again, if she didn't die in the cave-in.

>That's not like her at all
It's in line with that "magus" persona she puts on for most of HF.

>True End answers this question, but the ending itself is bad
>no atonement or amends, characters are portrayed like nothing happened
This is my main problem with HF True End. While the game tells you there was a lot of recovery during the 2 years since the final battle, it doesn't bother showing it to you so it feels like an asspull. I like that the characters finally get their happy end after the all the bullshit they went through, but you can't just skip over something that important and not have it feel unnatural and forced.

Luckily, it's a problem that's easily fixed and I have faith after how the folks at ufotable handled the epilogue for Unlimited Blade Works.

>In HF, she's all alone again
What is Taiga?

I don't think she ever met Taiga in HF.

>No, Sudou is the one designing the characters(he's also the director).
>You can check his work on the Hollow Ataraxia openings.
It's slightly better, but still similiar from what we had with UBW.

That said, HA OPs are good.

>The worst route has the worst endings
Heaven's Feel, not even once.

>It's in line with that "magus" persona she puts on for most of HF.
The persona she stops caring about by the end of HF.

So she won't ever meet her?

Nasu did the same thing in Tsukihime. And I can't say I blame him. You can't drag out the ending for too long after the climax, so it's a more satisfying conclusion to show that they DO eventually recover than to just imply they might.

>The persona she stops caring about by the end of HF.
And then Shirou dies, leaving both Rin and Sakura devastated. If her father's death before the story is any indication she's likely to lapse back into that persona to cope. Then she goes off to the Clock Tower to get that mindset reinforced by the actual magus culture.

She might, if she tries to find closure by revisiting the Emiya house. But that's not the same as saying that Ilya's going to just let Taiga adopt her.

Well, we are having a nice discussion here, and it reminded me of lots of things that happened in the VN and we are all missing a very important part. The kitchen.

So there will be 3 movies, so 2 of those will be about culinary? I can't wait to hone my japanese and western style menu.

I don't see HF Normal as needlessly negative, it was a realistic outcome. Maybe it's not what Fate fans wanted to see for the last route, but that ending was great.

Its only issue was that it left some unresolved things.

>Maybe it's not what Fate fans wanted to see for the last route
There was no such thing as "Fate fans" before FSN.

Since this is going to be a movie and not a series, what are the chances we'll see Sakura's tits?

>revisiting the Emiya house
Why would she just revisit? Where do you think she's going to live?

>And then Shirou dies, leaving both Rin and Sakura devastated. If her father's death before the story is any indication she's likely to lapse back into that persona to cope. Then she goes off to the Clock Tower to get that mindset reinforced by the actual magus culture.
Why would Shirou's death in HF effect Rin so badly that she can never find love? This isn't UBW, Rin hasn't fallen in love with Shirou.

Tragedy is not edgy.

>Shirou dies
Shirou chose certain death for the sake of Sakura and Ilya's lives and happiness as soon as he used Archer's arm.
Once he made the decision to abandon his ideals for the sake of the woman he loved, the story become one that detailed the extent and consequences of his sacrifice.
Shirou sacrificing himself was the natural and expected outcome of Heaven's Feel. There's nothing needless about it, and it takes a literal miracle to justify saving him in True End.

>Ilya still dies
She was already dying. It's tragic that she can't get to Shirou in time, but that's the natural outcome of his sacrifice. And she almost certainly died in cave's collapse instead of wasting away alone in her castle, with nothing but painful memories and regret.

>Sakura wastes her life waiting
And in every other ending outside Heaven's Feel she's forgotten or abandoned while Zouken uses her as worm food and eventual mother of a new Matou line. That sounds pretty fucking edgy to me.

>Rin wastes her life too
Becoming a successful and respected magus who raises a happy family is wasting her life?

HF Normal isn't edgy at all, it's just not a completely happy ending like every other one in the game.

I don't particularly like tragedy/bittersweet endings but it's just much better written than HF True.
It wouldn't have bothered me even if Ilya saved herself along with Shirou because it's actual Magic, but there's absolutely no good reason for Rider to stay around.

>Where do you think she's going to live?
Literally anywhere? Maybe even back at the Einzbern house.

With Shirou dead, there's nothing left for her in the Emiya house. Rin sure as hell isn't going to be living there.

And that's all assuming she didn't get crushed to death in the cave-in.

>Why would Shirou's death in HF effect Rin so badly that she can never find love?
Because that's what magus culture is like. It's like old European nobility. You get married for the bloodline, not for the person.

And even when Rin doesn't fall in love with Shirou, they become very close friends and extremely important people in each others lives by the end of the VN.

>and it takes a literal miracle to justify saving him in True End.
Yeah, but it's a miracle that the entire novel is built around. It's a miracle, but not a Deus Ex Machina.

>who raises a happy family is wasting her life?

>Traditional magus family
>Happy
Not likely.

>it's just not a completely happy ending like every other one in the game.
UBW Good is the only completely happy ending in the game.

>but there's absolutely no good reason for Rider to stay around.
I'm still scratching my head till this day.

>Sparks Liner High
>bittersweet
Shirou is a vegetable, Sakura is going to kill Rin, and Angra Mainyu will be born.
Looking at the greater scope it's pretty much the worse possible outcome of Heaven's Feel.

>Because that's what magus culture is like. It's like old European nobility. You get married for the bloodline, not for the person.

>And even when Rin doesn't fall in love with Shirou, they become very close friends and extremely important people in each others lives by the end of the VN.

Then how is Rin's ending different in HF normal, true, and Fate? She doesn't win Shirou in either of them.

What about Rider?

Rin and Sakura reconciling isn't something that Shirou surviving his fight would change. Ilya might still be able to destroy the Grail like in the True end.

Though I guess from there on it might go similarly to HF Normal, just with Sakura waiting next to a hospital bed instead.

>Then how is Rin's ending different in HF normal, true, and Fate? She doesn't win Shirou in either of them.
Because only one of those endings has Rin's new best friend die. Just being friends with Shirou is enough to change Rin's personality by a lot between the beginning of the VN and both the Fate and HF True ends.

>Just being friends with Shirou is enough to change Rin's personality by a lot between the beginning of the VN and both the Fate and HF True ends
Not really.

>Rinfag being salty best girl won the canon end

>Canon end
I probably like Sakura more than the average Fatefag but you should fuck off with that.

Canon end is Shirou meeting Saber in Avalon. Sakurafags and Rinfags BOTH btfo.

Bait is best answered with bait.

For this Good End here, what would cause Kotomine to say "Fuck it" and just give up? I'd be interested to see that.

The real Manjew is born and he turns out to be a pretty swell guy.

>It's a miracle, but not a Deus Ex Machina.
I know, I'm not shitting on that aspect of True End. The point is more that sacrifice for the sake of love is a huge theme in Heaven's Feel. Whether Shirou or Ilya is the one doing it, it's not at all "edgy" or unnecessarily negative.

>Traditional magus family
Rin is hardly a traditional magus. I'd like to give her enough credit that going through Heaven's Feel and understanding the consequences of her father's actions had on Sakura would push her into softening a little.
Then again, we are talking about Tohaska Rin, a woman without any natural human kindness.

>UBW Good is the only completely happy ending in the game.
I'm exaggerating, but you're forgetting Fate + Last Episode.
HF True is nowhere near as blatant as UBW Good, but it's still pretty happy-go-lucky, especially compared to the route it follows.
Aside from Rider being alive (again more justifiable than Saber living through UBW but still just fanservice), I guess the best way to put it would be that we just don't see the "scars" that the route ought to have left on the characters. Part of that probably comes from it being written from Rin's perspective but the tone just doesn't feel right after the emotional rollercoaster that goes on in the last hour before it.

True Ending is the best because best girl Rider finally got her deserved happiness.

>Rin is hardly a traditional magus.
Only because she met Shirou. She was trying her damnedest to be a traditional magus before FSN, and she doubled down on it hard in HF. She's definitely capable of it.

>She's definitely capable of it.
She admits right before not killing Sakura that she is not capable of it.

That's before Shirou dies.

And?

>Again more justifiable than Saber living through UBW but still just fanservice.
Exactly.
>I guess the best way to put it would be that we just don't see the "scars" that the route ought to have left on the characters.
Absolutely.
>Part of that probably comes from it being written from Rin's perspective but the tone just doesn't feel right after the emotional rollercoaster that goes on in the last hour before it.
My thought too.

In the course of two weeks Rin and Shirou pretty much become each other's closest platonic friend in both Fate and HF. Their character development in HF is at least a little bit because of each other. Shirou's death is going to hurt Rin almost as much as it's going to hurt Sakura.

If it's similar to KnK 3/5/7, we will probably.

>Aside from Rider being alive (again more justifiable than Saber living through UBW but still just fanservice), I guess the best way to put it would be that we just don't see the "scars" that the route ought to have left on the characters. Part of that probably comes from it being written from Rin's perspective but the tone just doesn't feel right after the emotional rollercoaster that goes on in the last hour before it.

If they go for HF True, I want to Ufotable and Nasu to change it as much as possible. Like you said, the tone is off and it's mostly because of the chosen perspective.

I want it this ending to be told differently, and I want it to acknowledge what happened during the route. (show in what state of mind Sakura and Shirou are, what does Shirou think about the journey, what does Shirou think when he sees himself in a mirror, what does he think about his deceased sister...)

They can leave the fanservice with Rider, I don't care about that.

What does Nasu even think of HF True? Was it a mistake?

She's MIA in Sparks Liner High, and she's in no position to stop Sakura either way.

You're forgetting Saber doesn't die in SLF.
Shirou basically cuts her in half so she's incapacitated, but with Sakura's prana she'll recover in just a few minutes. Then she'll come to Sakura's aid and kill Rin.
It's possible Rin could beat her before this happens, but we don't really know since it's not relevant to the narrative.

Ilya is the only one who can abort Angra Mainyu, assuming:
>Rin beats Sakura
>Sakura doesn't just totally lose her shit in the aftermath of stabbing her sister and killing Shirou
>Angra Mainyu can't force Sakura/Saber to do anything despite Shirou not breaking its contract with Rule Breaker
>Kotomine still dies on schedule despite not fighting Shirou

There's also the possibility that Sakura somehow breaks Angra Mainyu's influence on her own and orders Saber to annihilate the Grail with Excalibur, but that would still collapse the cavern and kill the whole cast.

>What does Nasu even think of HF True? Was it a mistake?
He made it precisely because he felt HF Normal was far too harsh after he finished writing it, so it's the other way around if anything.

As far as I know the only part of the VN Nasu has called a mistake was how he handled the whole Saber/Shirou dynamic in Fate route
Which is pretty funny and ballsy for him to do considering how much Japan fucking loves Saber as waifubait

>They can leave the fanservice with Rider, I don't care about that
There's really just no reason for her to be there, we barely know anything about her as a character that needs to be resolved, and we've hardly seen anything substantial of her relationship with Sakura, definitely not to the extent that the average reader would expect or even really want her to stick around.
She's just a distraction in an ending that already doesn't give enough focus to the characters that the story actually took time to develop and attach the reader to.

Rider being alive was definitely a mistake.

People criticize HF normal for being overly negative/edgy (which is not the case, it was a realistic outcome), but fan service bullshit is far worse.

I really dislike HF True.

Reminder that the ads and stands for Unlimited Blade Works had Saber instead of Rin. In every event for UBW Saber was there.

>it was a realistic outcome
It's a little bit too cynical for Nasu. At least for a major ending.

Should I finish the VN before the films? I'm still stuck on the Fate route.

>It's true

Man this must suck.

No it was too cynical. If I wanted depressing stories I would go find real news.

You wanted fanservice garbage maybe?

Canon waifu despite the eternal fag tears from Cred Forums

Can someone explain why Saber had an "inversion impulse" at the end of Zero?

Is this gonna be a three-part movie eh?
I'm a little worried now because of kizu being half baked so far

She has dragon blood. She was really, really pissed off.

Read Tsukihime.

Fuck off. Rider is the best thing about HF True.

>Should I finish the VN
The answer is always yes
Fate route might be hot garbage but it's necessary and does have a handful of nice moments.

Fate was decent. I enjoyed the explanation about why Saber was alive, Saber finally understanding Kerry's actions, and Saber Vs Gilgamesh. Everything else was garbage though.

You don't want to make freaks mad

I'm waiting for the remake with the new designs desu.

More seriously, should I really read Tsukihime?

Also thanks user.

You should've already read it years ago.

Now fuck off newfag

After she was the first Servant to be defeated in the previous routes, especially her unceremonious UBW bad end, it's only fitting she wins in HF.

So it's dispensable? Fine.

Why is Prisma Sakura a million times better than her HF version?

>Marries and procreates for the sake of the family rather than finding actual fulfillment in her life. Watching her sister waste away. Not having any real friends after she goes off to the Clock Tower and Ayako goes off to muggle college.

She'll find fulfillment in her life in the form of a big tittied finnish witch.

>Sakura route
>Ilya is best girl

>Ilya route
>Sakura is best girl

The world works in mysterious ways

Fuck off /u/, this meme is boring and you've been trying to force it for a while now.

>tfw you will never use the Holy Grail to bring the end to humanity because that's its true desire.

>Complaining about /u/
>On a character who is canonically into girls

Nice try /u/

...

So this never happened? Or are you going to claim Realta is the only canon?

What did she mean by this?

Not him but if I were to make an argument that Rin isn't bi I would say that that is a one off event. She gets caught up in the moment trying to get Saber and Shirou into the mood in order to save their lives. She admits during the act that she didn't think she swung that way. That's obviously pointing out that she had never had any kind of attraction or sexual thoughts towards women in her life up until that point. Finally, I guess I'd say that she never makes any kind of similar comments nor takes any actions anywhere else in the novel that would lead anyone to think she was interested in women.

I won't say that Rin isn't bi, personally. She easily could be. Rin's not overtly sexual. She tends to hide such feelings so if she is attracted to women you'll likely never get it out of her.

Say, how do Ilya and Berserker handle mana-transfers?

She doesn't keep Saber around in UBW Good just to make Shirou happy, and her comments towards Rider in HF definitely imply that there's something going on between those two, and that's ignoring the flirting between them in HA.

And then there's all the official art of her being intimate (though not sexual) with other girls. It doesn't seem to be that ambiguous that she is more than incidentally attracted to the same sex.

>Saber Vs Gilgamesh

Oh I have this super spicy meme called Avalon that cost no mana, and its super duper ultimate defense that teleports me to another dimension and cannot be broken. My spicy Avalon hax is better than your spicy Ea hax.

inb4 it was like that in the legend. Yeah whatever that was lazy writing

nice waifu wars, nerds

They have a normal Master/Servant connection you filthy degenerate

Best girl isn't even in HF so I could literally care less

So what does shit Servant do in Fateverse? You just go to every Holy Grailbowl endlessly and get your ass kicked ad infinum and nobody cares. That's like a fate worse than Seiba cycle

the poster you are replying to is a sand nigger and he is trying to tell us how all raped women deserve it for being alive in the first place.

Rin is a lesbian with one exception in Shirou.

...

You can't really prove that, can you? As user said, she never showed interest in girls before that point. I'd argue she never showed any interest in boys either, besides her crush on Shirou, and even that doesn't ever go anywhere unless specifically triggered.

...

I always thought her relationship with Ayako was more than just a little homoerotic. Not even considering the RN Rider dream, because that's just a dream.

Fuck off, shitter.
Scat is nowhere as perfect as Medusa is.

>Snake
perfect

Indeed. Better.

Whatever makes you sleep well at night, delusional scatfag.

She won't let me.

Heroic Spirits are summoned partially/drained for power outside of the HGW. Since you exist independent of time, you on't care, you might as well be dead (which you are)

Don't fight, both snek and Scat are great.

Yes, both are great. Other is just greater.

me on the left

youtube.com/watch?v=8qAE_Th1b_4
This is some good shit

Never liked that opening theme. Only 0:00 - 0:30 sounds good.

Fate/UBW have a better theme.

youtube.com/watch?v=V-3P2MbTwag
>see 0:54

I want Ufotable Fate route.

I don't want that Dragon again.

It looks a lot less bad in FGO.

It has Manatrasfer Dragons?

It's completely unnecessary.

Two different Craft Essences depict the mana transfer dragon.

Here's the other one.

Probably. Still, I want Saber/Rider and Saber/Gilgamesh animated by Ufotable.

So if we believe that RN is real deal and not just some tongue in cheek metaphor, how come Saber is represented as dragon?

Shouldn't she be lion instead

Fate/Shit faggots are shitskins compared to Tsukihime aryans.


Fate/Shit is a kusoge made to sell merchandise of cute girls (Saber clones)

There's nothing to Saber/Gil fight though. The first fight was just them spamming their NP and practically muh NP is better than yours.

2nd fight is "muh Avalon is the ultimate defense that has no counter, so I'm gonna spam Avalon through your Ea and then Ekskusu-Cariba your smug gold man face."

Arturia PENDRAGON

Arturia PenDRAGON
she has dragon blood/a dragon aspect.
The lion is bullshit anyway, how would a King that never left medieval Britain get a lion from?

>Fate/Shit is a kusoge made to sell merchandise of cute girls (Saber clones)

Oh what happened to your vampire princess? Oh yeah she's practically Berserker Seibaface now

Lions were brought over by the Romans for blood games and display. They also brought Elephants to Britain.

This is sad.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZZT-DL-XrCU

Step your game up Senpais.

Lancer Arturia's armor, particularly her helm, has a lion motif before she starts taking it off at higher ascension levels. The version of her that serves as the antagonist of the Camelot chapter even goes by the name Lion King for most of the chapter.

By contrast, the Lancer Alter version of Arturia has armor with a dragon motif, so ultimately both the lion and the dragon are symbols of different sides of Arturia.

It was a great moment though. Knowing Ufotable, they would not have made a 1:1 adaptation of these fights, so it could have been better.

>"muh Avalon is the ultimate defense that has no counter, so I'm gonna spam Avalon through your Ea and then Ekskusu-Cariba your smug gold man face."
But Gilgamesh has muh clairvoyance, he should immediately have seen through Saber's trick and answered it accordingly.

He actively suppresses it most of the time, unless he wants to cheat at cards.

there were no more Romans in Britain at the time though.

Hey that's Aimer from Kabaneri.
youtube.com/watch?v=3ePxx3VI_OQ
>3:27

Great OP user.

What happened to the porn scenes in HA Vita version? Do they get straight out wiped out, censored or what?

>spinning
couldn't he just put a watermark or something on it?

No, but there was still some low-level trade going on. The collapse of the Roman Empire didn't instantly cut all links between the provinces of empire. I can see a Lion Cub being shipped from North Africa to Britain.

Gone. Replaced by Capsule Servant.

>Tfw Matthew is going to die after obtaining the final grail and ascend to heaven just like Gallahad in legend.

youtube.com/watch?v=lYJzPiOLLAk

I wish Nasu would stop power creeping Gilgamesh and Saber. Each time I read a new story about them, I can't help but scratch my head thinking about what happened in Fate and UBW.

That Garden of Avalon shit was hilarious. Since it was mostly Saberwank, next time (it's a cycle) we will get Gilwank. Be ready to see that in the last arc of FGO.

>Still calling her Matthew

I hope Gudako will get to take Mashu's virginity first.

>The last two chapters of the first part of Grand Order are Camelot and Babylon
No shit, Sherlock.

>But Gilgamesh has muh clairvoyance, he should immediately have seen through Saber's trick and answered it accordingly.

That's why he's the King of Jobbers. The plot requires him to be defeated, and Nasu way way overwrite his powers, just like how he way overwrite Gaebolg capability (reality altering) and had to come up with stats and DnD bullshit to explain how Saber survived getting bulged.

That's like supreme overlord dark lord Sauron got defeated through his unbeatable gambit (even Frodo cannot resist the ring) because Gollum threw a wrench at his plan. Fans can argue about details all they want, but eventually Gil is written to lose and there's nothing the le smug goldman can do to beat the power of the writer

If they make Gilgamesh the Grand Archer I might be a little upset

O D Y S S E U S

GREATEST ARCHER OF ALL TIME

>and had to come up with stats and DnD bullshit to explain how Saber survived getting bulged.

Given the sort of nerd Nasu is it's likely that the stats and D&D bullshit had long crept their way in.

>I wish Nasu would stop power creeping Gilgamesh and Saber.

Gil is justified in that he's the first hero, the king of heroes, and the precursor to all hero story. Even Illiad and Odyssey borrows heavily from epic of Gilgamesh. According to Fateverse logic, he then should be the strongest hero.

Saber power creep though, is shameless pandering. King Arthur is famous sure, but he's no Gilgamesh, Hercules, Osiris, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad or Luke Skywalker.

>it's likely that the stats and D&D bullshit had long crept their way in.

Yeah probably. It's silly that the servant class are not equal with different strengths and hard counters. "Saber is the best class" from the beginning is kind of silly. Most grailbowl except for HF is won by Saber class. Saber class has high physical attack, agility, and magic resistance. The point of doing DnD shit is that everything is technically equal, but with different strengths and counters. Nasuverse is a tilted DnD table from the beginning. If you're a master and roll a shit assassin you'll be in the world of hurt.

Saberwank makes a bit more sense now that we can look at CCC, Garden of Avalon, and Grand Order together. In a sense, Gilgamesh is the first hero of the Age of Man, and Arturia is the last hero of the Age of Gods. Everything that happened between them was the Age of Gods making way for the Age of Man.

You know the system is deliberately rigged with the intent that one of the Three Great Families who designed it will win, right?
And no matter who wins only the Einzberns have the means to actually use the Grail for its intended purpose

Being the last hero, e.g. the most derivative works in the Age of Gods shouldn't make you the strongest hero at all. By that logic, you should be in the bottom tier of heroes from the Age of Gods as the Age of Gods is waning away. But then again who am I to challenge Nasu's writing. If he says that Excariba can kill God Hand 7 times over, despite that's not how multiple lives work (think of Mario game) then so be it.

But even the great families can't control what class they're rollan. That's like purposely tilting the playing field, but you don't know which side of the playing field you're gonna be.

People latch on to the "older is better" idea in the Nasuverse even though FSN subverted the hell out of that. We have all sorts of Heroic Spirits that embody modern ideas in one way or another that are pretty much designed to counter the Mystery of old, from Tesla to Edison to fucking Nobunaga.

But that's ultimately beside the point.

It's not just that Arturia is the end of the Age of Gods. Arturia herself ended the Age of Gods when she destroyed Vortigern. Excalibur and all the other toys she and the other Rounds got were gifts from Gaia (via fairies) to ensure this could happen.

They can't guarantee it (except for Berserker and Assassin, kind of), but being wealthy and influential families with intimate knowledge of the ritual gives them a huge advantage in obtaining catalysts to summon specific powerful Servants whose Class can be more or less predicted.

The ability to deliberately chose what Servant your summoning is generally more important than getting a specific Class, because a certain Hero has certain associated Noble Phantasms which are generally the most powerful tool a Servant has regardless of Class.

>It's not just that Arturia is the end of the Age of Gods. Arturia herself ended the Age of Gods when she destroyed Vortigern. Excalibur and all the other toys she and the other Rounds got were gifts from Gaia (via fairies) to ensure this could happen.

That's a 100% pure, unadulterated Saberwank right there. Was it in Arthurian legend at all that King Arthur ended the Age of Gods? Nope. There're still things like Musashi, Joan of Arc, etc., historical/fictional character with divine-ish origin running around after King Arthur. But then again just as I said, it is futile to challenge whatever Nasu wants to write, it's his IP after all.

It called "shit I made the girl too popular but she is too weak to use, so I will make her more op so I can use her again"

Kinda funny that Shirou isn't even in the top 10 characters.

YHVH doesn't seem to work quite the same way as other Divine Spirits in the Nasuverse. At the very least, he's much more closely allied to humanity than the average Divine Spirit.

Magecraft came from YHVH, as something that didn't actually have to rely on a god. Magic that could be performed by the common man, instead of only by those who stand in row to god, as Solomon's profile in FGO puts it.

Depends on the Shirou

You fucking know what I fucking meant. Archer and Shirou are two different characters

Even just in F/SN, Archer/Shirou's powerlevel is pretty underrated
He arguably has at least an even matchup with every Servant but Lancer, and maybe Saber.

What? I'm not talking about power levels

>Waifuwars

>Now Powerlevels

What's next in the Fate thread roulette?

Saber is not at all too weak on her two storylines F/0 and FSN (with exception of Avalon hax being necessary to beat Gil in Fate Route).

The problem is that TM/Nasu keeps milking Arturia to no end. By virtue of keep adding and adding stories to her backstory, and the need to keep introducing new badder stronger villain/adversary you're power creeping her. This happens to every western comic book character ever. What are you supposed to write on Uncanny Xmen after they beat Onslaught? More phoenix force bullshit and power creep.

Shirou's a self insert argument

What was the Saber power creep in Garden of Avalon?

There isn't much Waifuwars in that thread.

>Waifuwars

This is what waifuwars look like nowadays in modern Fate. It boils down to which Seibaface wud you fug and what shade of crazy do you want your Seiba senpai?

Excalibur gains a power up when Saber is summoned by the world to defend it. Something along those lines. Basically the Excalibur we've seen her use up until now is the basic version.

My god. Takeuchi's dream has come true!

Disgusting.

What's next? Saber stronger than Archetype Earth?

So, planetary threats huh. Gilgamesh doesn't count as one? Though, his goal was different in Fate than in UBW from what I remember.

Does that mean that Excalibur > Ea, or does EA still have the edge due to the Anti-World properties?

I have no idea. I didn't even read GoA, last I checked it doesn't have a translation. To be honest though this doesn't bother one bit. Excalibur was always "built by fairies" and in Nasuverse those are an extension of the world. It's not like Saber has any control over it, it's like how Archer doesn't decide when the counter force helps him.

So many garbage Saber. Saber, Alter, and Ruler should have been enough. Nero too if you want.

Artoria Pendragon Alter (not in the pic) looks cool though.

>Excalibur built by fairies so its super stronk

That's another shameless Saberwank. Yes it's built by fairies so what? Tons of mystical weapons are either made by fairies, or of straight off divine origin. Who do you think made Bellephron, Rider's pegasus? A bunch of blacksmiths in Athens?? Who made Herc's body, e.g. the Godhand? Excalibur should be nothing special compared to other NP. By definition, being NP they all have somewhat otherwordly origins.

The world is above gods though. Why do it you call shameless? This is not literature we're talking about here, of course he's going to reuse the characters that he and other already like.

The only thing I wanna see in the Heaven's Feel movies is Kirei eating mapo tofu. I've already played the visual novel, so I don't really care for the fight scenes or anything of that sort. I highly doubt we'll get to see the h-scenes get animated, and the fight scenes will most likely be overblown and filled with unnecessary sfx.

Nero is the start of the fall. Uh it's actually Nero, the historical roman emperor but with Saberface slapped on him (her).

Then we get bride Nero, Saber Lily, Saber Lancer, Saber Lancer Alter, Saber Okita Sougo, Saber Chuuni Mystery Heroine X, and it keeps proliferating like crazy. even older, established character is not safe from the Saberface plague

>Why do it you call shameless?

Because how much backstory and wankery can you jam into one character's backstory. For the love of christ make it stop and focus on making new interesting Servants.

For some reason, TM thinks that anything without Arturia wouldn't sell. Fate/Extra franchise has proven otherwise, but they don't care. It's not even Takeuchi wanking his waifu all over people now. It's straight off cynical marketing to pander the Saberfags.

I really liked Saber by the end of FSN/Zero, just the way she is. All this additional material and wankery shoved into her is just too much. An American comic example would be Wolverine, he can't be just a hairy manlet asshole from Canada, so they keep shoving backstories after backstories and now Wolverine is somewhat involved in American civil war 200 years ago.

Suck to be you then.

>Heroine X
God, there's a new one? TM made me hate Saber's design.

Yep it's a chuuni version of Arturia Saber who decides to kill all the other Saberfaces.

It is kind of tongue and cheek in that regard, but that's like ironic shitposting is still shitposting, ironic saberface is still a saberface

I agree. I wish Fate was more than just Saber and Gilgamesh wank. There are so many interesting and cool-looking servants, yet they keep adding more and more content for these two mainly.

I was about to say that Extella tried to not put these two in the foreground, but I forgot that Gilgamesh is still here for whatever reason.

Extella is clearly about Altera.

>Yep it's a chuuni version of Arturia Saber who decides to kill all the other Saberfaces.
Jesus Christ, this isn't even a joke... They know how cancerous this is.

Shinji kills Zoken in UBW. I don't remember Fate but doesn't Kirei kill him too? Anyways it doesn't mattrr.

In Heaven's Feel we learn that Zoken has very little time to live after the war, in fact he begins to decompose at retarded rates during the war, his bodies don't suit him and has little chance of living past it, he doesn't realize because he's out of his mind but True Assassin makes it clear, that he's already gone by the second half and everything he talks about(muh plans) are just product of his delusion and his unconscious clinging to life

Zoken is not alive in other routes, people need to stop being retarded and pay attenttion to the story.

At least she's a brown silverhaired saberface. A non blond saberface can be forgiven, because in any other circumstances if the artists is not a sameface drawer then she'll probably have different face

I really like her design.

She's not a saberface.

Actually she is an April's Fool joke.

It's not a joke when you start selling her mechandise and making money off her design. Ironic saberface is still a saberface

This is pretty weak bait because Saber herself is a clone of Hisui.

And by the way, Rin, Sakura, Medusa, Ciel, Akiha, Shiki, Gudao,Gudako and several other Takeuchi characters have exactly the same kind of face Saber does, just change their haircut like you did there and done.

she IS saber with different clothes.

I think you just take it too seriously. This is just some self aware joke, the Japanese don't actually care that there are that many clones.

Yeah, Saber is basically an Arcueid and Hisui mix

Actually no, in FGO they gave her backstory about world of servants somewhere in space and other shit. So she is another different Arturia.

...

>Excalibur gains a power up when Saber is summoned by the world to defend it. Something along those lines. Basically the Excalibur we've seen her use up until now is the basic version.
Out of nowhere.

You should read Tsukihime as soon as you finish downloading it, so start downloading it nao.

not even saberface user

...

Mad gilfag being mad

Fuck off cancer. We don't need any dumb fake argument about fake sides.

>Fuck off, shitter.
>Scat is nowhere as perfect as Medusa is.
Right, cuz Scat is perfecter

it is from Fate/Grand Order materials book
Excalibur will able to use its true power when an external threat threatening the planet appears.

Literal perfection, shaped by the will of a dragon.

what is meduseless doing?
Why is she fucking a old guy with tits wearing a bra

But Gilgamesh and Kotomine threatened the planet, does it mean that Excalibur's true power was still no match for Ea?

The planet is not humanity. Primate murder for example is Gaia's anti-human measure.

I see.

Sigh. Saberwank and power creeping is actually worse than Gil's.

So, will they power creep Gil in FGO in order for him to stay relevant, or is Unlocked Potential Artoria the new meta?

I know this probably doesn't change anything to Saber's power under normal conditions, but it's really odd to see these random additions over and over.

>Sigh.
Fuck off cancer.

Will there be any news at the kyoto anime manga show about Heavens Feel, I know aniplex has a stall and is selling merchandise with sakura on it

I'm on 15th day of HF right now
This is my first VN
Holy shit it's long

They already wanked Gil so hard that original Gil from F/SN looks like a complete retard.

40 to 60 hours is the normal length of VNs with a real story even the ones that are just romance drama.

Wasn't Gil only wanked in CCC? I haven't heard anything from FGO besides a few power creeps here and there. If wank there is, it will definitely happen during the 7th HGW though...

I don't remember where it was stated I think it was Strange Fake but they did say that when he was alive Ea was much more powerful. This will probably only have consequences for the Babylonia chapter of FGO though.

Also in SF. And soon there will be even more in GO.

Wasn't Saber also stated to be more powerful when she was alive? HG has a limit, thus can't summon them at full power or something. (similar to why you can't summon Ishtar or other gods)

>And soon there will be even more in GO.
Gotta do something after that Savior/Envoy of the Beginning/One Above All/Jesus Artoria which happened thanks to GoA.

Saber was born with special dragon magic circuits that generate an immense amount of magical energy which is why she could use excaliblast as much as she wanted in life but not as a servant. As a servant your magical energy doesn't come from yourself.

>Fate/Extra anime by SHAFT
>it's Saberface Nero
>probably the male MC
Did they just conveniently forget about the other 3 servants?

you have no idea what you're talking about,huh

Naruhodo.

What?

Best lad

>tfw no DP scene with Shirou and Shinji on Sakura

Of course, they don't have saberface so they can't produce money.

EMIYA is more popular than Nero or Tamamo though, if you want to go there

...

>Him in the FGO Zero event

What's the difference between the two Saber Alters here? Is it just alt outfits?
I really like her new dress.

Mind of Steel is the best ending.

It's the same Saber, the outfits change when you ascend the servants in GO. Gameplay-wise ascensions are how you increasing the level cap, lore-wise it's also an improvement of the servant container so that they closer to the level of power they had when they were alive.
fate-go.cirnopedia.info/servant_profile.php?servant=003

It's just different looks. When you ascend a servant in that game you unlock a new look. It's not new by the way, that dress look comes from FHA and you can also see it in Carnival Phantasm.

When was it in HA? I don't remember that.

I don't remember when she appears like that every single time(it's been years since I read it) but jump to 9:00 in this video youtube.com/watch?v=DP0TXYg7s1s for an example.

Oh wait nevermind. You probably meant that dress specifically.

user that's clearly a different dress

Wow, I really hope Shaft doesn't fuck up the Extra anime. I can't take much more disappointment after 3rei.

There's still one more episode of 3rei, for all you know that episode could be so amazing that 3rei becomes the known as the greatest anime of all time

Because she died protecting her husbando.

HF Sakura is still best girl. Any Sakura is best girl.

This seems unlikely

I'm not sure how to interpret that comment.

Is he saying that he wanted to make a boy-meets-girl story, but because Saber isn't really a girl suited for that kind of story, Shirou's overprotectiveness over her being a girl comes from trying to remind himself and others that she was in fact a girl and trying to push that angle and that it was the kind of thing that he would've like to handle better?

Is this the new Fate thread?

What's worth doing after I've played the games? Any of the manga or anything good?

That angle is bound to fall regardless. Shirou is a shit magus and generic Jap highschooler. Saber is a Heroic Spirit borderline demigod in Fateverse. Everytime Shirou act out like a retard in Fate route, everyone gets in trouble. As a result, it is almost consensus now that Fate route is the weakest route.

It was much better when it was otome game, because generic Japanese otome falling in love with blonde haired bishonen Aryan perfection that is King Arthur makes much much more sense. This is also why he had to write in emergency mana transfer and shit like that into the route to de-ice Saber. 14 days was too short of a time for a ginger generic Japanese highschooler to bang a demigod heroic spirits who put a curtain on the Age of Gods.

Tsukihime, Fate/Extra, KnK, Carnival Phantasm.

On the contrary, despite FGO giving her the alien backstory it also very clearly states that she's really Arturia.

While I certainly agree that romance wise it's the weakest route, it's still overall my favorite route and Last Episode is still heartwarming as fuck.

>In Heaven's Feel we learn that Zoken has very little time to live after the war

While that's true, Zouken himself initially says that the conditions of this Holy Grail War aren't in his favour as Rin and Illya are very strong, and Caster has a servant. He was willing to do wait this war out and push for a win in the next one, supposed to happen in 50 years. Zouken's body is decomposing faster- he says he needs a new body every 4 months or so, whereas initially it would need replacing much less. Him being alive for only a short time is also from his POV- dude's been living for 500 years, if he only can live for a 100 years to him his time is up.

>Shinji kills Zoken in UBW.

We don't know that, but knowing he has a worm inside Sakura's heart he will likely bide his time and become active once more if Shinji did any harm at all.

As much as I hate to admit it, its very likely he parasites out Sakura in Fate and UBW like he plans to.

>Romance wise it's the weakest route
>Action scene wise it's the weakest route
>It has neither the philosophical babble of UBW or the edginess of HF

What's left for the Fate route? All that's left is an obnoxious ginger MC who's weak, won't listen to his allies and continuously endanger everyone, incessant about his stupid old-school, some might say sexist belief, who got a maximum boner at his servant on first sight, and continuously gets rewarded with all his dumb antics.

For example, if he didn't go to convenience store in broad daylight and got kidnapped, Archer would've have died and they wouldn't need to have emergency threesome in the shack. This is like deep into the route and the Holy Grail war, and his allies have warned him like 3-4 times by now that he shouldn't wander alone on his own (after he wandered off to meet Shinji just the day before). What's the result of this dumb antic? He got rewarded with a threesome, and nobody even blamed him or brought up his initial dumb carelessness.

>Fanservice
>when the VN is the first of it's kind

you have some serious brain damage.

oops, it was for

>Jeanne

KYS Gilles

If he does he only has about a decade to do it before Rin and Waver show up to tear down the Grail. When that happens, Zouken's going to die. Either he's killed trying to oppose them or he self-terminates in despair after they succeed.

Gonna be pretty awkward living in the house with the dude that killed your hot mom.

>It was much better when it was otome game, because generic Japanese otome falling in love with blonde haired bishonen Aryan perfection that is King Arthur makes much much more sense.
But that's the same as what we currently have.

She's a bitch and a whore. Definitely worst Type-Moon

Remind me why Zouken sat out the 4th war. He had 60 years to plan, know time is of the essence, and the competition wasn't particularly strong besides Kerry and Kirei, neither of which could do much to him.

Fate route is canon you delusional wormfag

Because he couldn't participate himself, Sakura was too young (as was Shinji) and not fully adapted, Shinji's dad was wothless (as was Shinji), and until shortly before the War Kariya was gone.

Saber and Gil would fucking destroy worm master he was smart and waited.

That's it, why couldn't he fight himself? He had no problem summoning a servant in HF and he knows the system better then anyone alive.

He let Kariya do it because it posed no risk to him. If Kariya won he'd get the grail if he died no problem he'll just try again next war.

He had no expectations for Kariya, he just wanted to make him suffer for deserting the family. If by some chance he did win, great for Zouken, but he put zero effort into ensuring his victory.

Because becoming a Master paints a target on his back, and in HF the situation is a lot more to his advantage than in Zero.

In Zero he would more or less have to play fair, and would have to do so against Kiritsugu, Tokiomi, and Kayneth, all of whom are pretty respectable threats on paper. I don't think he's aware of Kotomine's potential in Zero.

In HF, though, by the time he summons Hassan two of the most seemingly-threatening Masters in the War (Bazett and Caster's original Master) are already disposed of. Sakura is easy for him to manipulate, and he thinks Shirou and Rin would both be easy to manipulate via Sakura. Ilya is just a kid, and Kuzuki is just a normal human. Plus he has the Shadow as an ace in the hole. I'm honestly not sure if he's aware that Gil is still around or not.

If they are going for the Normal end then I think I may not be able to watch the movies.

>UBW anime went for the True End
>JC Staff anime that shall not be named went for the True End
I think it's pretty fucking likely to go for the True End.

>assho
You can't name something that does not exist.

I really hope they go for Normal end, as a Sakurafag, it only made me like her more.

>As a Sakurafag I want to see my waifu suffer meaninglessly

>waifu
It's just my favourite girl of FSN, not my waifu, and yeah I liked that end, knowing that she would wait years for Shirou even if he never comes back makes me a bit sad on one end, but happy on the other one, I don't really know how to explain.

I guess I just self-insert too much on Shirou and feels happy that someone would wait for me so many years.

I just want my Mind of Steel end as an extra on the blurays

See

oops, meant

Could shirou trace a conceptual weapon?

Yes, his only limitation is divine constructs and weapons made of materials not found on Earth.

>But that's the same as what we currently have.

No, not really. Imagine yourself as a girl, and having this blonde knight who's perfect in every way continuously riding to your rescue and protecting you from mortal danger. It'd be pretty easy to fall in love. Same deal with King Arthur, kind of. Imagine if you have to protect shrinking violet, fairly incompetent magus who's live completely dependent on you. Initially, you do it out of duty just to win the grailbowl, but you become attached to her and she's so helpless without you. It's kind of a lame, standard otome story of having knight in shining armor swooping the MC girl off her feet, but that's a very standard boy meets girl story.

On the other hand, imagine if you're Arturia. You have this ginger kid who doesn't listen to any of your, or Rin's advice. Run off multiple times on his own risking both his own life, and his allies' lives, massively incompetent that he cannot transfer his mana properly, who lived most of his life in relative peace and comfort of 1st world country, but then had the audacity to tell you, who lived your entire live and died by the sword in 12th century Britain that girls shouldn't fight, keeps jumping inbetween Servants fight for no good reason time after time, being a massive burden to you winning the grailbowl, on top of his father literally betraying you on the last Grail war. Then due to his incompetence and lack of ability to take direction, he run off to grocery store when you're practically incapacitated, and you had to have emergency 3some with him. The guy is a massive burden who's all talk but no show in term of competence. Sure he jumps off in front of berserker, but he does so without any hint of planning or strategy. How could you possibly fall in love with a complete burden and bufoon like that

...

Could Shirou use strengthening magic on his dick?

Where do you think the Jackhammer comes from?

...

Why is rin not a dolphin

Did you not watch UBW? The change in character designs was most glaring with Tohsaka.

Saber should be potatoes

...

How the hell did Camelot get its hands on a New World crop over a thousand years before trade between the Old and New Worlds gets established?

...

The same way they got their Coconuts.

A Swallow carried them across the Atlantic.

Shinji is such a nice guy

They know the cooking technique, not the crop itself. Read that she wanted the sweet potatoes in her army because it's not available during their time.

This but unironically.

WHAT!? A swallow carrying a Coconut?

It's a dragon actually, they just call it swallows in an island nation somewhere near the Pacific.

It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce dragon could not carry a one pound coconut.

Thought we discussing how a jap teen would fall in love with a beautiful aryan knight, not whether they would be reciprocated. I see your point. And Saber eventually fell for shirou when she realized she's the same kind of buffoon.

Please, will you tell OP whether he wants to join us in the new thread

Can servants have children?

The amount of illiteracy is insurmountably high in this one.

yes

>Gil is justified in that he's the first hero

Nah, Nasu inflates the importance of Gil WAY too much. He's a nobody.

he wasn't even the first king of Uruk. He was the 10th. There were 9 more before him, who would technically be stronger if summoned as Servants.

Is every king a hero though?

>He's a nobody.

Maybe, but we all love to watch him be the King of Smug.

You mean King of Jobbing?

pretty sure he has that one epic taught in any civilised country

But does he have a Disney movie?

They have to be incarnated like Gil was.

...

Poor Lancer. Never catches anything, never go the girl, his E-Rank Luck really is kind of sad.

He got paired with Rin in Extra

And then Rin ditched him for Nero.

>Sakura
a non-virgin

He is aware that Kotominei has two servants. Of course I am not sure he knows Gil's identity, but with 10 year's worth of intel I guess he could figure it out.

Her uncle turned into a huge dragon. Her bloodline isn't human, that was why people turned against her in Garden of Avalon. Because they didn't want to be ruled by a supernatural creature when the age of civilization arrived.

It wasn't tongue in cheek metaphor. The scene with the prana exchange is more seriously written than the terribly forced porn. Shirou soul fused with Saber and accepted her wholly even if she tried to get him out there.

Everything I hear about Garden of Avalon makes it seem worse and worse.

More like Nasu recalled he started his Fate project with King Arthur as the most powerful hero.

If anything, she was nerfed as fuck to make Shirou more than her cooking waifu in Fate for self insertfags. FGO introduces the seals on Excalibur as with her male counterpart. Get this A++ Excalibur only has one seal released (out of 12), so FSN Saber power has nothing on her true one.

Did you forget Ayaka saved his soul as a child and made him realize he should fight for his future instead of his past? He vowed to protect her because of this.

His feelings became different when she grew up and Ayaka is meant to be a really beautiful. She just hides her powerlevel because she has poor self esteem thanks to Manaka. She's not a shrinking violet, she's an oujo with light tsundere tendencies like Rin and a selfless personality that bordelines on martyrhood. She just needed to get over her trauma.

So we have an EX++ NP now?

Because you haven't read it. Garden of Avalon is really well written novel. Nasu is just good to handle the Round Table.

It's people who have an issue with Arturia being powerful, even if Nasu originally intended King Arthur to be the most powerful Heroic Spirit, that bitch about it without reading it. It's sad and bittersweet and you can tell how much fun Nasu had to write it.

Arturia consciously choosing to kill her uncle and knowing she'll be betrayed by humans in the end its a great scene. As was Merlin's impotence to watch this all unfold without being able to save her.

We know Excalibur is the most powerful weapon Gaia forged. Rhon is equally bullshit.

Because you're focused on muh powerlevels when the story is actually a solid tragedy which lacks any self insert waifushit for haremfags, and has an uplifting ending after all the bullshit. Also the OST is better than the one in the cancerous UBW ufo anime. I don't know why Fukusawa fucked up the UBW OST so much with forgettable tracks when Garden of Avalon music is great.

I like how the ending of the novel establishes Fate route as the one true route when it was bundled to UBW BD.

Nasu is a madman.

Because he had to compose the music to match Miura's shitty storyboards. His OST for Aku no Hana was incredible.

youtube.com/watch?v=wU7Gyzsx7uk

Probably one of my favorite tracks of Garden of Avalon. It plays in FGO Camelot when Bedivere thinks back about Avalon and Merlin.

Nice bait.

What makes Tsukihime better than FSN is the atsmosphere, you can feel the danger , the drama, the mindfuck.The music does a better job to add to the atmosphere than FSN.The characters interactions are so superior to the character interactions of FSN that it hurts,and the slice of life segments and Shirou's Pov are fucking annoying.FSN plot is too forced at times, some times they lead to plot holes,weak plot or unexplainable developments.Tsukihime's plot flows better, it's simple and credible.

Tsukihime's plot is also more mature, each resolution have more weight to them 1) Arc and Shiki didn't end up in good terms in Ciel's True End, 2) After every single of the Far Side of the Moon routes, Arc and Ciel will keep hunting Roa, 3) Akiha ends up as a doll in one ending, 4) Akiha and Kohaku die in another end, 5) Hisui's Good End wasn't precisely happy. In F/sn, only 2 characters couldn't be saved: 1) Ilya in UBW, 2) Saber and Ilya in HF.

Shirou never actually shows his resolve when it comes to deal with people who are prepared to kill,and the story does not have serious and mature Masters - aside from Zōken-and the only time Shirou had to confront one of his friends, was in HF against Black Saber. Shiki, on the other hand, had to fight Arc, Ciel, Akiha, and Satsuki at some point - there's also the point when he realises all what Kohaku has been doing.

FSN is just too light and aimed at teenagers. That why the dark and cold as ice Tsukihime is superior.

Wait. What?

>This is what deluded Saberfag really believe

>Nasu originally intended King Arthur to be the most powerful Heroic Spirit
The good ol "Nasu says" argument. Can you provide source interview, before any of this saberwanking happens? Say from period after FSN up to FHA release? Yeah Arturia ends up being some galactus planetary force, with Excalibur and Avalon connected to the world and having no counter whatsoever is what non Saberfags are complaining about excessive Saberwanking.

Can you seriously say with straight face that GOA would be the same, with Saber being given loads and loads of unnecessary backstories if say Saber is number 18th in the popularity ranking and Sakura is 1st? GOA is pure unadulterated Saberwanking, and Nasu's making it up as he goes because Saberfags pays the bill for TM with Saberface merchandises and were their main cash cow to milk.

I think it just means more continuity. It's anti-climatic from Saber's POV arc story if she starts at GOA -> F/Z -> then died at the end of FSN HF route like a chump

>Grrr this character is too popular for my liking.

>ignoring everything else in favor of continuing to bitch about powerlevels
You're kind of proving his point dude.

>Get this A++ Excalibur only has one seal released (out of 12), so FSN Saber power has nothing on her true one.
If that ain't bullshit.

It's not about powerlevels. It's about incessant and unnecessary bad writing on a popular character solely due to cynical marketing purposes

But what is bad writing about it? You've only talked about powerlevels.

>Watch Gilgamesh ascending to a new rank at the end of FGO...
>Muh planet buster Ea

...

>It's people who have an issue with Arturia being powerful, even if Nasu originally intended King Arthur to be the most powerful Heroic Spirit, that bitch about it without reading it.
Wasn't King of Jobbers the strongest? When did this change?

For example Same deal with Excariba being the super duper Rhon-tier special snowflake NP. It wasn't mentioned at all in FSN other than being a particularly high tier NP. There are many many more famous swords throughout history/legend such as Durandal, St. Peter's sword, Muramasa, Masamune, Kusanagi, the 7 branched swords, etc.

It's obvious that Nasu's making it up as he goes due to Saber's popularity, or otherwise you will find any mention of these in FSN somewhere. The goddamn thing is 85+ hours long.

When Nasu thought Fate (the Prototype with Male Arthur), Arthur was the most powerful, and Gilgamesh was just his jealous rival that he beats the shit of eventually. When he genderswapped it, he needed to nerf King Arthur so the ginger self insert wouldn't look useless. Now Arturia is free from the narrative of being just a FSN heroine and moved to bigger, better things, she gets her power back. Gilgamesh is currently the most powerful one, but my point that was meant to be Arthur in the beginning. Gil also gets his fair power ups.

It's in Saber's NP interlude. She lifts a seal and Excalibur turns from A+ to A++, so FSN Excalibur only has one seal lifted.

It's a pretty good idea to use his original Excalibur concept while not contradicting she needed Shirou or anyone's help in FSN when she was gimped to hell. It does make EMIYA a shitter but he's supposed to be one.

He means that the ending of Garden of Avalon is Continuation of the Dream. Garden of Avalon wasn't in Arturia's POV, the main character was Merlin. After Arturia accepts her fate and goes to Avalon, he releases his familiar to help the world (plot of FGO).

I don't think that makes HF and UBW non canon but they are seriously pretty irrelevant outcomes in the big franchise and Type Moon verse because the fate and timelines of the world relied on Fou being around to get Gudao to survive which wouldn't have happened if Fate route didn't take place.

Original Fate/Prototype had King Arthur as the strongest Servant under the Saber/Saver class

In short, TM needs to move onto other Servants. Gilwank and Saberwank have been going out of control. There characters are done. They keep going back to these two because they're the most popular Servants.

>It's obvious that Nasu's making it up as he goes due to Saber's popularity
No, retard. It was established like this in Prototype. And Excalibur was ALWAYS called the most powerful holy blade. He toned it down because he needed to make Shirou less of an useless shitter. Do you think he would have done anything except cook for Saber if she was actually as powerful as she should be?

I mean, they have moved on to other Servants. There's a thousand of the damn things. They're quite capable of wanking a large number of Servants in parallel. You want them to just drop two of the most popular because you don't like them?

Thanks for the explanation. Where are the counters though? I'm not against Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Saber, but isn't it a bit out of control now?

Accel Zero event hints El Melloi is from the future of a Fate route timeline too. He knows Rin but has no idea who Shirou is (only Emiya he knows is Kiritsugu and never met his adopted son). He took down the Grail before Zhunge possessed him.

There are other timelines but the main important ones Saber appears are, in terms of plot:

- FSN. Fate (not UBW or Hf). Without it, the timelines are all destroyed because like you said: no Arturia happy ending, no Merlin giving a fuck to get Fou to save Gudao/Gudako and fight Solomon.
- Original FGO timeline (where she's Olga's dad's Servant).
- Bedivere fucks up Camelot Timeline that leads to Goddess Rhon.

Powerlevels don't matter in Nasuverse where Issei could still win against Gilgamesh with the appropriate asspull.

You clearly haven't kept up with FGO. Yeah, there's some Saberwank and some Gilwank, but we also have shit like Solomon as the founder of Magecraft and fucking Tesla with lightning on par with Zeus'.

>I don't think that makes HF and UBW non canon but they are seriously pretty irrelevant outcomes in the big franchise and Type Moon verse because the fate and timelines of the world relied on Fou being around to get Gudao to survive which wouldn't have happened if Fate route didn't take place.

This is what I mean by Saberwanking. By the end of FSN, all three routes are more or less equal, with HF maybe maybe having slight edge being the definitive conclusion to Fuyutsuki Grail War. Now all the additional material hinges and latches on Fate, arguably the worst, most simplistic written route as the backbone for the extended material. If Saber is not the most popular waifu, do you think that will be the case? We might've gotten Shirou ISIS killing adventure spinoff.

In the end I don't really care anymore about the extra material anyway, as I don't play FGO. FSN was a decent waste of comfy 80 hours and F/Zero was a good anime. I hope Extella and HF movies came out good too. I understand the need for more Saberwankery, as she is TM mascot now, and Saberfags do pay the bill with their obsessive merchandise collecting but I'm just done with most material related to Saberwankery because I'm not in that camp. At the core, I think Arturia is a boring one note moralfag, but that's just my opinion. For all of you Saberfags out there congratulations I guess.

Don't forget Scat and Casko wank.

>Gil also gets his fair power ups.
He only had the clairvoyance thing if I remember correctly... I think Ea stayed quite consistent despite the recent entries, not sure about FSF.

Maybe they will use the "he was far more powerful when alive" card now too.

They are equal within FSN, but it doesn't mean they are outside a self contained story. Nasu has always been very vocal that Fate is, at core, the story of King Arthur and the Grail. He's always been at core a fanboy of the Round Table who loves to write these characters. It's beyond Saber's role as heroine, but her identity as King Arthur WHICH is more important than Rin, Shirou or Sakura. Same shit why Gil is also more important than any of those three.

>At the core, I think Arturia is a boring one note moralfag
She had to do some pretty morally gray shit as king.

CCC made his Gate of Babylon as the embodiment of mankind's ingenuity. Whatever men invented, he has it. Oh, he got wanked all right, like how he got the ball rolling of the age of gods end (Arturia finished what he wanted to happen in the future, process began with Solomon).

Solomon, Gilgamesh, Arturia, Ozymandias, Hassan, are all important kings. I don't see there's wank as I see Tamamo linked to fucking Amatarasu wank (something nobody bitches about even if makes zero sense) or how fucking Nero gets a spotlight over Romulus (who IS one of those important kings, his spear is the counterpart to Rhon).

This really feels like you're reaching for stuff to get mad about. The majority of extra material doesn't matter which route is more canon or whatever.

Even the author of the Septem chapter regrets the Nerowank in that chapter.

>Nasu has always been very vocal that Fate is, at core, the story of King Arthur and the Grail.

Was this as a result of Arthuria being insanely popular or the other way around? Nobody except Nasu would know. He could've said that he wanted it to be like this all along, but he could be lying to himself considering all the bucks he could squeeze out of hardcore Saberfag otakus.

Fate/Extra and CCC did okay without Arthuria, and to be honest I'm kind of Nero guy anyway. FGO was too grindy for me amongst tons of way better games on my backlist and I can't be bothered with the balooning out of control powerlevel and increasingly complex story wankery about the World, the grail, and whatever.

Did they forget she was pragmatic and chose to sacrifice one village to save ten which got the hypocritical moralfag knights mad at her?

She goes "alter" on her own accord if she chooses Rhon, in a continuity. And tyrannical Wild Hunt King.

She's far more interesting than one note tsundere and wormslut.

Yes. The only way people think she's a moralfag is if they didn't look into the series any deeper than Zero.

Lancer Arturia Alter isn't the normal form of Titty Arturia. Even normal Lancer Arturia isn't an inhuman psychopath on par with Goddess Rhon.

Oh the classical trolley problem, literally one of the oldest problem in philosophy. How original

Don't worry, some EX² NPs that nobody ever heard about witll someday appear from the GoB. Given that Gil doesn't know what's inside his vault, they can play with that for the next Gilwank. i.e. in a few months

>Was this as a result of Arthuria being insanely popular or the other way around?

Other way around. user, Nasu wanted to write Fate as a story of King Arthur (male) and the Grail. Takeuchi made it some eroge which made him add routes for two expanded characters who originally died as irrelevant zombies in Prototype; Misaya (Rin) and that white sickly dude who was the Master of Rider (Sakura).

Extra and CCC had to fucking run on Nero looking exactly like Arturia. Do you think it would have made half as much if Nero wasn't her clone?

Nasu loves writing the Round Table. Period. Nobody 'forced' him to write Garden of Avalon. He did it because he wanted to. HE loves Arthurian legends. He took over Camelot chapter and rambled how he loved writing it in his blog, he even wrote a 'prologue' when he didn't even bothered with other chapters. Like Sakurai loves Ancient Egypt (and he wrote the parts of Egyptian characters in Camelot), Nasu adores the Round Table Knights. The quality of how he writes and the speeds he does is really impressive when he writes about them.

It has zero to do with Arturia muh waifu of Shirou character, because her take in Camelot have none of this and was fantastic. He loves King Arthur. The ending of Camelot with Agarvain and his goddess-king was the best ending he ever delivered to me. There was no waifu-fanservice of her in the chapter, it was just well characterized and came out strongly.

She's not a moralfag in Zero either. She's not a cutthroat like Kiritsugu but the reason why they clash is that she's his chivalrous version. She wanted to kill him in cold blood after he had Diarmuid killed.

Novel Fate/Zero Arturia is certainly no moralfag.

Saber really hasn't been overexposed in Fate until Grand Order, which centered around cheap fanservice to begin with.

>Zero and Hollow are fair game for obvious reasons
>MIA in Extra (Nero's modeled after Arturia but has zero character relation)
>MIA in CCC
>MIA in Strange Fake
>Her prototype (who's ultimately a different character) in is, well, Prototype
>Gag clone in Koha-Ace
>Her homunculus son-daughter is a supporting character in Apocrypha
>MIA in non-Fate Type Moon works (duh)

Most you could argue is Garden of Avalon, which is merely a side material meant to supplement the KotRT cause Nasu likes writing about them.

>Nasu loves writing the Round Table. Period. Nobody 'forced' him to write Garden of Avalon.

This. The only Servant from Extra on Hakuno's side in CCC is Gawain as proof of his love for the Round Table. Chinkfag, Drake, Cu, Lu Bu are all dead.

Yes, it's not that he specifically likes Seiba. It's that he adores the Round Table Knights (and characters) in general. I wonder if they were his heroes as a child.

Fate franchise entire BASIS is on the search of the Grail which he lifted from Arthurian lore. He needs to shill Percival next.

Exactly. She was all about muh fair and honorabu duels when she had no problem ambushing enemies or completely crushing weaker foes/armies. Her character was changed to be greater foil to Kerry.

Vanilla Saber has really only appeared in two events in FGO. Three if you count her being the bonus boss of the KnK event. Other versions of Arturia that have actually shown up in the story have all been antagonists.

I don't think she's been overexposed. Just used as cheap advertising.

But then it begs the question why Fate route was so weak to begin with in term of writing, forced romance, and (the lack thereof) action scenes - especially compared to the other 2 more complex routes. Also in hindsight the lack of Chekhov's gun for further stuff like Excalibur having 12 seals, the existence of Rhon, the World, the rest of the knights, etc.

Maybe Prototype would've been better as an anchor to all this extra material wankery after all. But then it's gonna be just Nasu wanking alone, and the Saberfags wouldn't support him anymore because their waifu wouldn't be there

I think you're mistaking granting a fellow knight the courtesy of chivalry with her tactics with dirty enemies. Look at her treatment of knights vs non knights. She also wants to reveal her identity when Kojiro does in FSN.

She's only "honor dueling" with Diarmuid because they awoke their chivalric side and makes sense. She even tries to play even level with Shirou as Alter in HF, it's something she grants to people she specifically likes or respects.

That's your opinion, user. I felt Fate route was stronger than UBW (but weaker than HF). UBW felt like a bad horribly written shounen crap. Fate route dragged in the poor attempts of 'romance' (which Nasu is fully aware he messed up because he tried to make Arturia far too 'girly' out of fear the users would dislike her kingly side) but the times Nasu got his Arthurian lore and King Arthur parts (not Arturia: muh waifu ones) it was really strong. Read her flashbacks. They are excellent. The climax and endings are also great.

Gil's and Arturia's conflict was actually well se up unlike Gil as Shirou's enemy which seemed a forced asspull and completely jarring (Shirou's antagonist is and always will be Kotomine, UBW is the weakest route to me because it tries to make Shirou something he isn't and tries to make Gilgamesh something he's not).

Gil vs Shirou only ends in Shirou's favor because Gil DOESN'T see him as an enemy, he sees him as a pest to be squashed at his leisure.

Nasu isn't wanking Saber. He's wanking the Camelot cast as whole, Saber is just one of his targets. Merlin is the magus who is helping Gudako and Gudao save the world, not Houdini or Medea. Mashu is possessed by Galahad and is the main 'Servant' of FGO.

It's all about the Round Table.

So Artoria/Arthur Dragon Ball are stronger than Arc now?

My point

Your head

>Who is Galactica Saber

Is it really a good idea for a Master to have multiple female Servants be his harem?

Fate being the weakest route is not only my opinion, is the opinion of many many people. Granted they're still opinion, but you must acknowledge at least among westerners you're in the minority.

Anyway romance is the backbone of Fate route. If as you said, the romance was among the poor aspect of Fate route then everything falls apart. The bittersweet ending, and Last episode falls apart if you don't buy the romance aspect of it. For me that's the crux of it. Shirou's at his most obnoxious in Fate route and he single handedly ruined the route. The fact that ginger retard got rewarded with Last Episode through his sheer retardery is bullshit. This left a bad taste in all the other extra material that hinges/latches on Fate route such as GOA (from the little snippets and notes that I've read) and FGO.

You're not allowed to be mad at something you haven't read

>MAL
>legimate opinion

Fate was the most sold route when they split the routes.

>shirou is the most obnoxious in Fate

No, I hate him in UBW and his immature masturbatory bullshit who was incapable to see other people's problems while in Fate he started obnoxious and got mature, far more than his UBW shitter self.

Interesting. However, isn't Gilgamesh fairly stronger than Prototype Gil? (F/SF Ea, GoB, Clairvoyance, etc.)

I'm not mad as much as I couldn't be bothered to care because I know it latches on the worst route in my opinion. If this is the direction Fate series is going with FGO and maybe additional Saberwank LN about Arturia that hinges on the Fate route then I just don't care. That's kind of my opinion and I'm not trying to force it on anyone, especially hardcore Saberfags who would take offense in my opinion.

Anyway I'm excited about the upcoming Extella game/anime though.

They are different aspects of the Hero-King. Proto Gil has less 'firepower' he can shoot simultaneously but he is a warrior who mastered and can wield any of the weapons he pulls. That's why he's the King of Heroes, emphasis on his 'Hero' part. He can fight Arthur hand to hand. He has the Star of Destruction instead of the Star of Creation. It's just a different character concept but it's no weaker or stronger than Gil, it's another area.

FSN Gil is better if he stands far away and swordspams, but he gets flattened if he approaches.

Proto Gil has a "can't die in combat" NP.

Proto Gil = Gilgamesh+EMIYA w/FSN Cu personality.

Interesting stuff. Thanks a lot.

You should definitely play FGO, this is the bright future of the Fate series. Aren't you happy?

kill me

Once your in, you can NEVER get out!
Muhahahaha!

What are you talking about? They look the same between all the series, I'm not getting what people are screaming about!
I
f it's subjective then people stop trying to justify your reasons and just announce, "I don't like it".

If it's objective bring to light the artistic critique instead of the blanket statements!

As long as there's no translation for it, I'm safe.
see

It would actually make sense for Rhon to be equal or even greater in power to Excalibur. After all, it's the scabbard that really matters.

Hot

Dragons are just bigger swallows.
youtu.be/PC6A5zqxp8s

>It's not going in a direction I like, so it must be dying!

sakura a shit
that is all

>I am the bone of my ass
>steel is my asshole, fire is my anus
>I have sucked less than thousand cocks in my life
>unknown to straights, nor known to gays
>have withstood many a cocktease in my life
>yet, this anus will hold nothing
>so as I pray, Unlimited Gay Works

Pregnant Saber is a cute Saber.

tfw Archer cast UBW 200 times despite having no mana.
>quality adaptation right here

Would Nero be more enjoyable if she had a non-saberface design?

Yes, definitely. She was сreated with saberface only because of cash, because Arturia's face would make her popular instantly.

Damn, Rin is really ugly in the UBW anime

The style is off putting. You can find good or bad shots of any character.

Yes. Saberface is the biggest cancer of Type-Moon.

Which was the initial topic of this thread. Character design in UBW are really unpleasing. Males such as Shirou, Archer, and Lancer are quite well done though.

Gilgamesh falls under the same category as Saber and Rin.

Need Heroine X to clear them all.

Does anyone have that page with saber rapibg shirou?

meh, i should stick to Kaleid.
you guys are fucking cancer.

Because it's the intro route. They introduced a lot of stuff but didn't go into much detail about anything. If someone were to only read the Fate route they wouldn't know much about the story as a whole and even be wrong about quite a few things, the route purposely misleads you about certain things because it all gets fleshed out in either UBW or HF. Fate route is only good for Saber's character development.