Let's try this again

Now that I know Final Fantasy is shit.

Why?

What in the literal fuck are you asking?

Saged.

I'm asking because of this thread.

I want to know more in depth why Cred Forums believes this series is mediocre if a majority love it.

Bump. I won't leave until given answers.

The first statement was that SaGa was a far better series. So with that being said, I'm assuming that's based on obtuseness and difficulty?

Well if obtuseness and difficulty are the barometers, then why does Ocarina of Time get a pass? What about Super Metroid and Chrono Trigger? Why are these games lauded by Cred Forums but Final Fantasy overall is derided for being too "easy"? Shouldn't, under that criteria, the original LOZ on NES be hailed as the greatest since it is the most obtuse and difficult? What about the original Metroid? Why does Cred Forums not like the original Metroid best?

Can you tell me in detail why it is bad?

Why even at its peak, the series is mediocre?

If so, then what is the top echelon for Cred Forums? Is it SaGa? What is the pinnacle?

Bump.

I'm looking for answers. Talk. Speak.

page 10 save rave

Can you give answers?

Why is Final Fantasy shit?

Not 1 or 2, I mean the whole series. At it's highest peak, it's mediocre according to here

Come on give answers

>wanting answers from people who lie all the time to look cool for their internet anonymous friends

Answers. I want to know why the series is considered shit here.

Yo go around baselessly criticizing so smugly, well now explain your reasoning

5,6 and 10 are the only good games


The rest are shit

I'm sorta enjoying some of FF1 so far. Reveals like the airship and the class upgrades were neat.

Encounter rate is balls, though.

Why is SaGa better?

There's no driving force in SaGa. Everything is aimless. There is no progression. Why is Final Fantasy II scoffed at but SaGa is considered the top-tier echelon jrpg here?

I'm asking Cred Forums. I'm asking the ones that said SaGa was far superior. I'm asking the ones that implied Chrono Trigger was better than every Final Fantasy even though Chono Trigger did nothing unique or original and is piss-poor easy and short. Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest gave birth to jrpg's. Why is Final Fantasy shit? This guy even said IV was shit, but it introduced epic storytelling and the ATB system. Every single FF brought something new to jrpg's and layed the groundwork for those to come. Why is the series shit?

>10
>no 4
>being a contrarian fuck and not adding 7

if your favorite Final Fantasy is

>IV
You are a bigger nostalgia faggots than VIfags and unlike VI, your game is genuinely shit with no notable good characters except Rydia

>V
You only play game for gameplay. No stories final destination. Would rather farm that extra stats instead of ending Exdeath

>VI
You have a heavy nostalgia goggles and great sense of jealousy that VII is overall the better and more popular one

>Tactics
You are an oldfag who thinks politics and religious plots are deep but in reality it's just a shitty cover up for the pathetic clusterfuck of a story that not even can be consider average if it's a fictional book. Also the gameplay is quite bad and uneven because you either suck or overly OP when you get Thundergod CID

>VII
You are casualfags who probably never played anything else besides VII or VIII or X and try to judge them

>VIII
You are huge emo faggot who thinks Squall is anything like you. You project yourself as Squall and Rinoa as your love interest throughout the game but then you realize you will never live in Balamb Garden so you end up hating yourself and the game

>IX
You have shit taste that prefer a fun and adventourous story but lack the ability to see how bad the other aspect of the game is especially the stupidly designed battle system, the horrible secondary playable characters and the inconsistent plot

>X
You are a weeaboo that share the same taste as japanese who likes drama over other things. Too stupid to realize the game is as linear as FFXIII and it's horrible implementation of the sphere grid

>XII
You thinks you are a fine gentleman and a scholar that like a great game. Too bad 20 hours later you realize there's nothing interesting ever happening and end up dropping the game

>XIII
You should just kill yourself

You know what? I actually agree with this.

Idk I've only played FF1.

Favorites: 4, 5, 7, X, Tactics
Right up there: 6, 9
Have to be in the mood for them: 1, 3, 8, 12, MQ
Terrible: 2, 10-2, 13

Those are all the ones I've played. No interest in 15.

4 is shit and also 7 is shit

because different people have different opinions

A lot of people on Cred Forums still like Final Fantasy

FF is bad because every other decent JRPG series has done a better job at what it strives to do. The combat is too simple is most the games and lacks any real strategy, the gameplay experiments usually end up failing, the stories are convoluted and come across as dumb when they take themselves seriously, the characters are mostly fine but pale in comparison to other series like Dragon Quest, Trails, and Chrono Trigger.
It has good music, visual design, and production values but other than that they are simply babby's first JRPG. As a general rule of thumb, the less serious FF's like V and IX are worth playing, while story centered titles like VI and VII should be avoided.

>XI isn't listed

So it's God-tier then?

Why isn't it as respected as SaGa here?

Why isn't it as respected as Zelda? or Metroid?

Why did I get tons of people saying it was a shit series that at its best is mediocre here

>FF is bad because every other decent JRPG series has done a better job at what it strives to do
By copying Final Fantasy? Final Fantasy is the dual grandfather of jrpg's along with Dragon Quest.

Because once you get to the SNES, SaGa is mechanically competent more often than not and far, far deeper than FF in general while FF2 is a shitty proto-SaGa game that does nothing right. There's more nuance, depth, and challenge in Romancing SaGa 2 than there is in FF 1-6 put together.

I'm sorry but SaGa is absolute garbage.

Retard detected.

But what is the point of all that depth t the combat if there is no driving force? What is the point if it's aimless and it's the antithesis to progression? Then it's simply a sandbox and it's barely a game.

Why are you talking a game series you obviously haven't played?

>monster scaling
>good

lol

>monster scaling
>not good when it's done intelligently

You can't say along side Dragon Quest because FF started off as a DQ clone. It's as guilty as every other JRPG.
And for th record, DQ is a Wizardy/Ultima clone. What came first is hardly a relevant qualfier.

If retard is synonymous for someone who isn't a edgy contrarian faggot, who hates FF just because it's popular and chooses to engage himself with shit just because....

Then yeah, retarded.

The reasons it's hated is:
1. Some people on Cred Forums hate japanese or even older games. I saw in the ocarina of time thread some people were calling it shit too.
2. Some people on Cred Forums hate turned based.
3. Some people on Cred Forums like less popular jrpgs and are upset that final fantasy is more popular.
4. Shitposters who either never played final fantasy or just one game.
5. Some people just shitpost cause they can. They may even like the series.
6. Then finally there are people who genuinely don't like it.

I don't understand the third cause I like some jrpgs more than final fantasy but as someone who likes jrpgs, I still like final fantasy a lot.

It's arguably the best jrpg series of all time, but if you're just here to be contrary you'll fit right in with the other 13 year olds.
That being said ff13 ate shit

Zelda isn't actually respected here either.

Having said that, FF is like the Zelda of RPGs, the games are very simplistic and usually of low difficulty. It also focuses on the plot more than its competitors.

I
>Watered down V
II
>Terrible
III
>A boring grindfest with a boring story and boring cast of characters
IV
>Same problems as III with a better cast of characters
V
>Interesting gameplay and job system, but a bland story and cast of characters
VI
>A more refined IV with better pacing and interesting cast of characters, doest feel like a dragged down grind fest
VII
>Same problems as 4, plus horrible controls, graphics, and overall boring
VIII
>Good design and atmosphere that's weighed down by gameplay and grinding to unlock GF abilities
IX
>Best designed in the series so far with the best gameplay but has the worst cast of characters
X
>Overly linear, but with an interesting story, best ost in the series, interesting cast of characters, leveling up system, and gameplay
XI
>MMO shit
XII
>Offline MMO shit that has a good design that's weighed down by a bad story, characters you didn't care for and the dreaded licence board
XIII
>Overly linear from leveling up to design, with a horrible story and cast, with its OST as its only redeeming factor
XIV
>MMO shit that isn't as good as XI aside from graphics
XV
> A combined kingdom hearts with yakuza elements boy band simulator with on rails driving and no replayability whatsoever

Objectively, the only good games in the entire series is 5,6, and 10. 9 would be good, but it's entirely dragged down by its unlikable cast.

This is actually a terrible way to judge the series, and partly a reason why FF is not well respected.

FF is a progressive series, it attempts to innovate and improve upon every entry. If you take into consideration all the older games like 1 and 2, then no shit you will have an overall mediocre impression of the series.

>If you take into consideration all the older games like 1 and 2, then no shit you will have an overall mediocre impression of the series.
I have a mediocre impression of the series specifically because I take into account games like FF1 and the fact that with no nostalgia goggles on whatsoever as I played FF1 for the first time LONG after I played the other games, I can replay FF1 at the drop of a hat and have more fun in the first three hours than I will with a full playthrough of FF6 and literally any following FF.

You literally said in the last sentence

>Objectively, the only good games in the entire series is 5,6, and 10. 9 would be good, but it's entirely dragged down by its unlikable cast.

And called 1 a "watered down V". That's like saying Zelda 1 is a watered down Link to the Past.

Why are you responding to such faggotry?

I never posted that, I'm calling you out for implying that it's games like FF1 and 3 that drag the series down.

The plots of the games are really predictable, and the stories are pretty shallow. The battle system is a relic of days past. The writing is sophomoric, but I can't really complain as that applies to most games. The characters tend to be over-designed and over-stylized and yet tend to be rather bland as characters go. The villains of the games are typically unmotivated past "I want to rule the world." which gets stale part way through the games. Much of the enjoyment in Final Fantasy is derived from watching the characters get into bad situations that you know they will get out of because they are the main characters and the villain isn't dead yet. There is no suspense to the games at all.

This is all coming from a huge Final Fantasy fan, by the way. My favorites are V, XII, IV, VII, IX, and X. I like them because, in spite of all the problems with them, they are fun.

>I'm calling you out for implying that it's games like FF1 and 3 that drag the series down.

No you have completely missed my point. I used 1 and 2 as the examples because user above called them "Watered down V" and "Terrible". It is unfair to judge a series while including its early developmental stages.

Look at this guy for example He calls the battle system "relics of days past" even though the last four entries have been completely streamlined (for better or for worse). This is as stupid as saying the system of the Tekken series is archaic because Tekken 1 didn't have side stepping.

I never understood why the series is so renowned. It's just so inconsistent.

>FF I
(it's bad, but is one of the first rpgs blah blah, so good)

>FF II
Pretty bad leveling system and bad desition to make it open world (you take the wrong turn and you'll face a group of 40+ lvl monsters that will insta kill your whole party)

>FF III
Didn't play it, but I heard it's pretty bad.

>FF IV
My favourite. Nice gameplay, story and music. A bit over-the-top, but I think that's what makes it good.

>FF V
Pretty meh story and characters. Good job system. Pretty bad bosses and levels (most of them require losing and coming back).

>FF VI
Pretty good characters, story and gameplay.

>FF VII
Just as VI, but with lame gameplay (just wait and attack to win).

>FF VIII
Haven't played it. But I've heard it's pretty bad gameplay and story-wise

>FF IX
Haven't played it. But I've heard it's pretty good gameplay and story-wise

>FF VII
>Just as VI, but with lame gameplay (just wait and attack to win).

You clearly have not played the game even half way through, if you think it is wait and attack. And you put in two games that you haven't even played, yet you call the series inconsistent.

This is why FF is not well-respected, literally no one on Cred Forums has played the entire series.

Did you know? You don't have to like the entire series to like individual games

I played VII up to mid cd2. I had wasted a lot of of time and stats leveling the magic materias when I discovered that just attacking all the enemies was better. Up to that point all magic materias (except the summoning ones) were trash.

>And you put in two games that you haven't even played, yet you call the series inconsistent.
I haven't played those games because most opinions about them are bad. And those opinions come from different websites, and most of the times (if not always) they're right.

>Did you know? You don't have to like the entire series to like individual games
I was talking about the series as a whole, not individual games. Some games are enjoyable. But I think you could have a better time playing other games. I just play FFs for the wacky stories.

fuck you my first final fantay was the DS remake of IV and i fell in love with the series

>I discovered that just attacking all the enemies was better
>Up to that point all magic materias (except the summoning ones) were trash

Thank you for proving my point

Actually, I like VIII because of the interactive Limit Breaks, like Squall, Zell and Selphie. Do not care much for the protagonist

>I know Final Fantasy is shit.
Only because of your expectations.
every mainline entry since V has been style>substance and it has its place in industry; you want old FF, go play DQ

Because Neo-Cred Forums says so.

DQ has a totally different style of mechanics compared to old FF, they're not really comparable.

>every mainline entry since V has been style>substance

I definitely agree with this. I would have liked to see Square take FF2 and 3 as foundations to build upon.

Maybe a game where you can select Job classes for characters, but their actions affect the stat growths, hence even the abilities they learn.

As a quick dirty example, if a White Mage uses the Attack command very often, it could perhaps learn some Holy elemental attack skill that heals the entire party equal to the damage dealt to the target.

Or if a Black Mage use the Item command a lot, it could later learn "Alchemy", where all manner of items can be converted into Black Magic spells.

You're basically describing the SaGa games there, even down to sparking techniques.

Then why does Cred Forums dislike Final Fantasy II if they love SaGa?

Yep, I'm just saying that FF could very well have gone in a similar direction of what I like to call "refined" RPGs.

It's quite like comparing craft beer and macros

Because FF2 is a proto-SaGa game that lacks a lot of what make SaGa games good.

because FFII is an early developmental stage game. SaGa built upon that, while FF tried too hard to be innovative (some of the later games were good though).

So since Final Fantasy is shit, what's the best in its respective field?

Also, since Zelda and Metroid are also shit, what are the best in their respective fields?

>while FF tried too hard to be innovative
So Cred Forums dislikes "too much innovation"

>FF8 is favorite game
>You end up hating yourself and the game
PARADOX

Because Cred Forums is a contrarian hivemind

Innovating is fine, 'innovating' at the expense of gameplay isn't.

If SaGa is so great, why did Japan rank literally every Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest above it?

fags on here hate everything.
you polled people who come into threads just to say they hate something.

It still hurts to think about how much potential XIII had

but gameplay is what's getting innovated

Innovation is good, but wasn't in the right direction. If I'm to be generous, the series went on a decline since Square-Enix, since X is the last game made by Squaresoft, and I quite liked its mid-battle character change mechanic.

>So since Final Fantasy is shit, what's the best in its respective field?

While others will say SaGa, I personally favour Etrian Odyssey

>Also, since Zelda and Metroid are also shit, what are the best in their respective fields?

I don't know, Dark Souls perhaps?

>VI
>story centered

They didn't. Romancing SaGa is higher ranked than FF1 and 2.

Final Fantasy isn't shit
Modern Final Fantasy is shit
Modern Final Fantasy is shit because it's not like old final fantasy at all

>Metroid
>shit
faggot you best be able to infinite walljump and moch ball; otherwise you're not allowed to say SHIT about Metroid

>Modern Final Fantasy is shit because it's not like old final fantasy at all
This is the literal definition of "nostalfag"

Montezuma's Revenge is better

Marketing. It's a clever little thing that works on a lot of people

What's better in order?

Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger? Romancing SaGa 3, Dragon Quest V, or Bahamut Lagoon?

Cecil was a badass. kill yourself

>Montezuma's Revenge is better
explain yourself, fucker

DQV>RS3>>>CT>>>>>>>>FFVI>BL

I agree, though I'm one of those faggots who think Paladins are cool. More than that though, I remember being really intrigued by the idea of changing a protagonists entire essence, where he even resets at Level 1

The entire Red Wings intro sequence where Cecil melts monsters with magic items was also bad ass.

no final fantasy is shit you plebeian shitlord

your just retarded.

What's better?

Final Fantasy VI, Bahamut Lagoon, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest V, Romancing SaGa 3, Xenogears, Tales of Phantasia, or Final Fantasy VII?

low quality bait at its worst

Which of these triggers you, and why is Final Fantasy 7 and 6 there if they "don't belong"?

Forgot pic-related

I think everyone here will say otherwise, but Bahamut Lagoon is my favorite among those

> FF4
masterpiece for its times, but aged horribly bad.
Basically a FF6 with a way better plot

> FF6
most overrated game ever, mediocre even for its times. Literally nothing worth noting except for the soundtrack

> FF7
Still the best mainline FF, and possibly the best jrpg ever created. Most varied world and locations in the series, and overall great in almost every area, even graphics were good for its time.

> FF8
Not as great as FF7 and FF9, but still good nonetheless. Best protagonist in the series makes up for the somewhat underwhelming plot and gameplay

> FF9
One of the best entries in the series, basically sums up all that's great about FF. Best plot in the series, best fantasy atmosphere and great characters.

> FF10
The third and last masterpiece in the series. Very good plot and most original and well-thought setting; improves the BS by getting rid of the useless ATB. Only downsides are characters and absence of world-map

> FF12
Excellent exploration and Gambit system, almost shit in every other area

> FF13
Has more deep plot and characters than most FFs, but a horrible lack of exploration. Combat good on paper but badly executed

> FF15
If the plot turns out to be on par with any other aspect (except for the shitty main party's design), it will be the best jrpg ever created

DQV>RS3>>>CT>>>Xenogears>ToP>>>>FFVII>FFVI>BL

It's not FF4's fault the JRPG genre in general jacked the things that made it special for its time.

Then you clearly aren't ranking by gameplay if you're ranking Xenogears higher than Final Fantasy VI and 7. Hardly anything in Xenogears is innovative and it's far too wordy and pretentious.

Not difficulty and obtuseness alone which would be a stupid thing to go by, SaGa give more freedom in exploration and build and usually have more races/weapons/enemy types/depths.

this is a good list although I think VI deserves a bit more credit and X's flaws outweigh its positives

>Bahamut Lagoon at last

That's a bit harsh

What's better?

Legend of Zelda, Golden Axe Warrior, Link to the Past, Oasis, or Crusader of Centy?

What's the appeal of X? I know a lot of people will say "lore" and "setting" but what differentiates it from any game about a post-apocalyptic water world?

Final Fantasy is literally THE JRPG.

The series had so many different ports that entire different generations of kids were able to play the game. Look at Final Fantasy I & II, it was on GBA, then PSP, then iOS/Android. That's three different generations of kids.

Final Fantasy was literally the reason to own a PS1 and one of the many reasons to own a PS2. Back in the days before everyone had internet (we didn't get internet till 2004) you wanted games that were long.

A lot of people (myself included) don't give two shits about other JRPGs (Star Ocean, Dragon Quest, White Knight Chronicles, etc.) Hell I don't even know what Persona is, but I have played Final Fantasy.

When people ask what do you think about when you think of turn-based RPGs, the first thing they will say is Pokemon, the next is Final Fantasy.

yeah, everyone on Cred Forums is just salty as shit so they project their own self-hatred onto popular games

That being said, FFX is dogshit

Link to the Past

It's also about abolishing god and religion. Rather than simply defeating a big bad guy who gained immeasurable power, you're actually going up against an entire world system, and the irony is that the big bad guy is actually a weak and timid creature hiding behind the Wizard of Oz curtain.

To cut the bullshit though, I just liked it because of Auron

Meh, I'm usually all for that sort of plot but X just did not stick well with me. I think the visual design was just ugly and the characters were incapable of being serious enough about anything going on

What makes Link to the Past better than those others?

Are you a normalfag

Let me guess, you actually think Final Fantasy VI is a good game, let alone rpg?

>What makes Link to the Past better than those others?

It's a fast paced game, especially with Pegasus Boots. It also has great speed running potential if you're into that.

I can agree with this, xenogears is honestly one of my favorite RPGs but it has a lot of flaws.

The game also has one of the most notorious cases of cut content in video game history with the nearly the entire second disc being one big cutscene/story rush.

>FFVI
>rpg
Now that you mention it, it does kinda play like a Metroid/Zelda/action game in that you progress to the next area by utilizing special moves picked up by new team members. The only thing that really makes it an RPG is the tacked-on EXP system that makes enemies even more fodder-ish than they are initially

Of course, no one is going to buy a turn-based nonRPG.